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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 9, 2020 1:06:21 GMT
Since we are talking about Ryan Murphy and he is one of the wealthiest and most successful TV producers in history and nearly always makes show with gay themes and characters, this strikes me as an extremely odd argument. But I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree at this point. Well, one would have to provide evidence of what gay themed shows that are equally popular, or more popular than those that are projected at "normal" hetero themed ones when comparing. Personally, I don't think it is worth it, because instinctually, I know very well that they aren't. Murphy has mixed sexual themes in many of his shows to make them more palatable, with the case of Dahmer, he won't be able too. Ok... I thought we'd agreed to disagree but... there are loads of shows. Many popular shows have gay characters and themes. Off the top of my head, Schitt's Creek was a small show in Canada that blew up and became a huge success on Netflix and just swept the Emmys. That's a comedy show with a gay main character where the last season centered around two men planning a wedding in a small town, and it's about as popular as any comedy from last year. I don't really know what or why you're arguing here. You bring up Silence of the Lambs as an example of killer with no 'queerness' but he was a serial murderer trying to turn himself into a woman because his sex change surgery was rejected and he couldn't go the route of other transgender people (which did prompt some blowback from gay people, which in turn lead Demme to make Philadelphia). Maybe it's because I wasn't born when the Ted Bundy story was going on, but I never really knew about his story until recently. I did know about Dahmer though, even though I was quite young when he died. It was a huge, massive media sensation. People have watched countless 20-20/Dateline/48 Hours/Current Affair/whatever episodes about this exact subject. People are clearly interested in his story and stories like his. And again, they did a season on a gay serial killer already. It also involved his gay victims. Including the life and relationships of his high profile victim, and some of the police work. Why you are so convinced that this can't be done and that nobody would watch it when it's a more famous and more infamous version of what they've done before, I can't comprehend. Whatever you or I think about whether this can be made, it is being made. I don't think it's some crazy huge risk, apparently you do. I don't really know if there's anything more to say.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 9, 2020 17:01:01 GMT
Ok... I thought we'd agreed to disagree but... there are loads of shows. Many popular shows have gay characters and themes. Off the top of my head, Schitt's Creek was a small show in Canada that blew up and became a huge success on Netflix and just swept the Emmys. That's a comedy show with a gay main character where the last season centered around two men planning a wedding in a small town, and it's about as popular as any comedy from last year. I don't really know what or why you're arguing here. You bring up Silence of the Lambs as an example of killer with no 'queerness' but he was a serial murderer trying to turn himself into a woman because his sex change surgery was rejected and he couldn't go the route of other transgender people (which did prompt some blowback from gay people, which in turn lead Demme to make Philadelphia). Maybe it's because I wasn't born when the Ted Bundy story was going on, but I never really knew about his story until recently. I did know about Dahmer though, even though I was quite young when he died. It was a huge, massive media sensation. People have watched countless 20-20/Dateline/48 Hours/Current Affair/whatever episodes about this exact subject. People are clearly interested in his story and stories like his. And again, they did a season on a gay serial killer already. It also involved his gay victims. Including the life and relationships of his high profile victim, and some of the police work. Why you are so convinced that this can't be done and that nobody would watch it when it's a more famous and more infamous version of what they've done before, I can't comprehend. Whatever you or I think about whether this can be made, it is being made. I don't think it's some crazy huge risk, apparently you do. I don't really know if there's anything more to say. You appear to be sidestepping the point I am making about an ENTIRE show designed around homosexual subtext. Shows/movies with peripheral gay characters are not relevant to this point. I don’t live in the US, so I can’t say to what extent Dahmer’s killing spree and death was exposed by the media, but yes, like you imply, it is also a generational thing. However, going back to main point, a series based entirely around a homosexual killer, whose victims were very likely homosexual, is not going to be as huge a drawcard for the average viewer. Silence Of The Lambs is not a gay themed film and I never got the gay backlash directed at this film. As mentioned, it is about about a Trans serial killer with serious psychological issues who wants to be a woman. This is far removed from the fundamental dynamic of what “sexuality” represents in regards to homo or hetero. BB’s victims were also women, not males and not gay men. If they were, this story would very likely not been as popular as it was. Demme, who was a straight dude as far as I know, made a huge misstep with the cheesy Philadelphia. It is not that good a movie. A gay themed movie made for straights. Too safe, too heavy handed and too dull. No, you are just ignoring the examples of shows about gay characters, the irrelevance of your criteria, the fact that there's no reason to believe that there will only be gay characters in this show, the fact that this show doesn't need to win over every person in the world,, and the fact that this same series has already successfully done exactly the thing that you are, for some incomprehensible reason, claiming is impossible. "BB’s victims were also women, not males and not gay men. If they were, this story would very likely not been as popular as it was." This is an assumption based on absolutely nothing with no logic behind it. "Demme, who was a straight dude as far as I know, made a huge misstep with the cheesy Philadelphia." Whatever you think of it, it was well regarded at the time and was successful. And that was almost 30 years ago. I guess I'll keep saying the same thing, but I just have no idea why you're arguing this, but to reiterate; the show is going ahead, it doesn't need to reach the audience of a Star Wars movie, people have proven they've been interested in this story for years, 10 episodes means there will likely be a variety of characters involved that surrounded this case, gay characters have been successful in movies and TV for a long time, and this series has already made a season based on everything that you're claiming cannot be done. I really don't get it why you disagree, but if you do then I can only agree to disagree at this point.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Apr 11, 2021 16:23:40 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Aug 26, 2022 16:23:53 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Aug 28, 2022 18:54:49 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Aug 29, 2022 17:56:14 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Sept 16, 2022 3:54:13 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Sept 16, 2022 14:49:54 GMT
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 16, 2022 16:28:16 GMT
Evan Peters sure does look unsettling. Could be good.
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Post by forca84 on Sept 21, 2022 0:13:46 GMT
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Post by amyghost on Sept 21, 2022 2:03:50 GMT
Something like this should not be sensationalised. Dahmer was a sick and twisted individual. Murphy has a tendency to go ott stylish. His style works well within his fictional series and AHS Hotel had a couple of episodes involving real serial killers, (I think Dahmer was one of them), but that was in context with the narrative and the vile evil of the hotel. This needs to be tread along a very precarious route. I would like to see it largely focussed on the mechanisms behind the authorities and their corruption and incompetence in allowing Dahmer to get away with his cruelly murderous spree for so long. I couldn't add much more to this to say it better than you have, TC. Suffice to say it was my initial reaction upon reading of this. While I can completely understand the macabre fascination with actions as obscenely awful as Dahmer's, I always feel some dread of seeing these sorts being turned into some type of almost glam figure amongst the hipsters, a la the likes of Bundy and Gacy (not to mention Manson, who became the almost ur-poster child for that sort of thing). It's horrendously difficult to present something like this in a manner that doesn't tend to wind up glorifying in some way the subject, no matter how unintended. Given the current trend towards a sort of public love affair with brutality in general, I think this sort of subject matter needs to be approached and treated with the utmost caution--and I'm not at all certain that our current media climate can be entrusted to doing that.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 22, 2022 13:28:02 GMT
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 23, 2022 4:41:52 GMT
Something like this should not be sensationalised. Dahmer was a sick and twisted individual. Murphy has a tendency to go ott stylish. His style works well within his fictional series and AHS Hotel had a couple of episodes involving real serial killers, (I think Dahmer was one of them), but that was in context with the narrative and the vile evil of the hotel. This needs to be tread along a very precarious route. I would like to see it largely focussed on the mechanisms behind the authorities and their corruption and incompetence in allowing Dahmer to get away with his cruelly murderous spree for so long. I couldn't add much more to this to say it better than you have, TC. Suffice to say it was my initial reaction upon reading of this. While I can completely understand the macabre fascination with actions as obscenely awful as Dahmer's, I always feel some dread of seeing these sorts being turned into some type of almost glam figure amongst the hipsters, a la the likes of Bundy and Gacy (not to mention Manson, who became the almost ur-poster child for that sort of thing). It's horrendously difficult to present something like this in a manner that doesn't tend to wind up glorifying in some way the subject, no matter how unintended. Given the current trend towards a sort of public love affair with brutality in general, I think this sort of subject matter needs to be approached and treated with the utmost caution--and I'm not at all certain that our current media climate can be entrusted to doing that. I will say, while American Horror Story has its problems with portraying real life killers, its sister show American Crime Story treated the OJ and Versace crimes with maturity. Anyone see this yet? Apparently the whole thing debuted on Netflix yesterday.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 23, 2022 13:06:31 GMT
I couldn't add much more to this to say it better than you have, TC. Suffice to say it was my initial reaction upon reading of this. While I can completely understand the macabre fascination with actions as obscenely awful as Dahmer's, I always feel some dread of seeing these sorts being turned into some type of almost glam figure amongst the hipsters, a la the likes of Bundy and Gacy (not to mention Manson, who became the almost ur-poster child for that sort of thing). It's horrendously difficult to present something like this in a manner that doesn't tend to wind up glorifying in some way the subject, no matter how unintended. Given the current trend towards a sort of public love affair with brutality in general, I think this sort of subject matter needs to be approached and treated with the utmost caution--and I'm not at all certain that our current media climate can be entrusted to doing that. I will say, while American Horror Story has its problems with portraying real life killers, its sister show American Crime Story treated the OJ and Versace crimes with maturity. Anyone see this yet? Apparently the whole thing debuted on Netflix yesterday. I only really watched one season of American Horror Story, but of all the silly things people seem to get bent out of shape about I'm surprised that making Richard Ramirez a cheesey slasher villain was just glossed over. I also thought the OJ and Versace series were handled well, but others in this thread just won't believe that no matter how true it is.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Sept 23, 2022 14:59:51 GMT
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Post by forca84 on Sept 25, 2022 17:43:14 GMT
It was very upsetting to watch. I stayed up late to watch it all and had trouble sleeping. And honestly that hasn't happened to me in a long time. The acting was very good. Especially Niecy Nash as Glenda Cleveland. Evan Peters was good too. Too good. I hope he films some comedies soon.
Episode 6 was a standout focusing on one of the victims. The series was in depth and told the whole story. From his childhood, His teen years, to his arrest and court case and the aftemath. We also got the point of view from the Victim's families which was compelling.
I personally felt very upset and drained after the series. Mostly due to the fact he was given so many second chances to keep on killing. And no one ever listened until it was too late.... 17 lives snuffed out. If you are upset easily don't watch it. If you don't like True crime I'm not going to try to change your mind. This is just my 2 cents.
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Post by Sarge on Sept 28, 2022 6:37:19 GMT
There was a news clip where they interviewed a victim's family and one of his early victims of sexual assault and they said the series brings up all the old emotions and that Evan Peters made them feel it all over again.
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Post by nicktatler76 on Sept 28, 2022 16:53:40 GMT
And doing all that while drinking Miller and Budweiser.
Shows how unhinged he was.
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Post by forca84 on Oct 5, 2022 20:17:35 GMT
There was a news clip where they interviewed a victim's family and one of his early victims of sexual assault and they said the series brings up all the old emotions and that Evan Peters made them feel it all over again. That's unfortunate... But I probably wouldn't have watched it if I had survived a serial killer. I don't remember any backlash when "My Friend Dahmer" came out. I'm also really disturbed by the popular tasteless Memes and Tik Toks people are posting about the show. People died... It shouldn't be a joke. And Dahmer shouldn't be romanticized. The series also predicted this.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 5, 2022 23:05:50 GMT
There was a news clip where they interviewed a victim's family and one of his early victims of sexual assault and they said the series brings up all the old emotions and that Evan Peters made them feel it all over again. That's unfortunate... But I probably wouldn't have watched it if I had survived a serial killer. I don't remember any backlash when "My Friend Dahmer" came out. I'm also really disturbed by the popular tasteless Memes and Tik Toks people are posting about the show. People died... It shouldn't be a joke. And Dahmer shouldn't be romanticized. The series also predicted this. Yeah, I was surprised they would watch it, knowing it would be upsetting. It wasn't clear to me that they were complaining, but the clip as a whole definitely wanted to give that impression. I watched the first episode and it was good but glacially slow.
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