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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 5, 2020 22:15:58 GMT
God tested Abraham by telling him to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. ... Abraham obediently placed Isaac on an altar and took a knife to kill him. Then an angel of the Lord appeared and told Abraham to spare his son. A primer for religious fanaticism this surely, where one is prepared to murder in the name of a deity or because it is thought God requires it.(Genesis 22:1-19)
Things are complicated by the fact that God had earlier told Abraham that his son Isaac, conceived miraculously in his old age, would be the key to the future - suggesting that the son was to survive to create all those future generations and be an eventual king. So the question here is whether Abraham was only pretending to go through with it since God had already promised something different and God supposedly does not lie; or did He think the deity had indeed been lying or 'misleading' but if the Almighty did, it was therefore necessarily good? The defence that, in the event, God did not really allow murder in His name fails since later in scripture He calls for mass killing and it goes through without demur. (And why did God send an angel to stop things in the event when earlier it was all Him moving things along? Was He too embarrassed to show his face?) (Genesis 17:1-25
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Post by goz on Oct 5, 2020 22:22:27 GMT
God tested Abraham by telling him to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. ... Abraham obediently placed Isaac on an altar and took a knife to kill him. Then an angel of the Lord appeared and told Abraham to spare his son. A primer for religious fanaticism this surely, where one is prepared to murder in the name of a deity or because it is thought God requires it.(Genesis 22:1-19)Things are complicated by the fact that God had earlier told Abraham that his son Isaac, conceived miraculously in his old age, would be the key to the future - suggesting that the son was to survive to create all those future generations and be an eventual king. So the question here is whether Abraham was only pretending to go through with it since God had already promised something different and God supposedly does not lie; or did He think the deity had indeed been lying or 'misleading' but if the Almighty did, it was therefore necessarily good? The defence that, in the event, God did really not allow murder in His name fails since later in scripture He calls for mass killing and it goes through without demur. (And why did God send an angel to stop things in the event when earlier it was all Him moving things along? Was He too embarrassed to show his face?) (Genesis 17:1-25 Interesting point, though the obvious answer is 'That we will never know about Abraham's intention to kill his son at God's will' since there was a reprieve. The obvious difference in your linking this event to terrorism, is that suicide bombers or the like DON'T have that expectation so they only believe that they will ascend into a better place after death.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 5, 2020 22:31:37 GMT
God tested Abraham by telling him to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. ... Abraham obediently placed Isaac on an altar and took a knife to kill him. Then an angel of the Lord appeared and told Abraham to spare his son. A primer for religious fanaticism this surely, where one is prepared to murder in the name of a deity or because it is thought God requires it.(Genesis 22:1-19)Things are complicated by the fact that God had earlier told Abraham that his son Isaac, conceived miraculously in his old age, would be the key to the future - suggesting that the son was to survive to create all those future generations and be an eventual king. So the question here is whether Abraham was only pretending to go through with it since God had already promised something different and God supposedly does not lie; or did He think the deity had indeed been lying or 'misleading' but if the Almighty did, it was therefore necessarily good? The defence that, in the event, God did really not allow murder in His name fails since later in scripture He calls for mass killing and it goes through without demur. (And why did God send an angel to stop things in the event when earlier it was all Him moving things along? Was He too embarrassed to show his face?) (Genesis 17:1-25) Interesting point, though the obvious answer is 'That we will never know about Abraham's intention to kill his son at God's will' since there was a reprieve. The obvious difference in your linking this event to terrorism, is that suicide bombers or the like DON'T have that expectation so they only believe that they will ascend into a better place after death. The significant thing about Abraham is that at no point did He ask the obvious question of God when told to do something that so clearly contradicted earlier predictions and promises, just as terrorists using violence to advance their idea of religion ignore any contradictory words advocating peace from the same source. Also a reading of the text suggests that Abe would have indeed gone through with it since the angel had to rush, and even shout, to stop things ending tragically: "But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”..
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Post by rizdek on Oct 5, 2020 22:33:21 GMT
God tested Abraham by telling him to sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering. ... Abraham obediently placed Isaac on an altar and took a knife to kill him. Then an angel of the Lord appeared and told Abraham to spare his son. A primer for religious fanaticism this surely, where one is prepared to murder in the name of a deity or because it is thought God requires it.(Genesis 22:1-19) Things are complicated by the fact that God had earlier told Abraham that his son Isaac, conceived miraculously in his old age, would be the key to the future - suggesting that the son was to survive to create all those future generations and be an eventual king. So the question here is whether Abraham was only pretending to go through with it since God had already promised something different and God supposedly does not lie; or did He think the deity had indeed been lying or 'misleading' but if the Almighty did, it was therefore necessarily good? The defence that, in the event, God did really not allow murder in His name fails since later in scripture He calls for mass killing and it goes through without demur. (And why did God send an angel to stop things in the event when earlier it was all Him moving things along? Was He too embarrassed to show his face?) (Genesis 17:1-25 Seems that's a story intended to tell how the Hebrews advanced from human sacrifice to sacrificing sheep and goats. Human sacrifice still crept into the OT, but it is obvious Israel was advancing beyond that...so I imagine that's why so many were horrified when Christianity took off re-embracing what amounts to human sacrifice as part of God's plan of salvation.
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Post by Archelaus on Oct 6, 2020 0:58:02 GMT
The story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a story I wasn't comfortable listening to back when I was young. However, the more I read the story, I understood it to be a test of faith. Remember, God told Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous as stars. In Genesis 22:5, Abraham told his servants that he and Isaac would return. So, it implies that Abraham knew that God would keep his promise even though he didn't know how since he had been ordered to sacrifice him.
I believe you go too far to compare the story to acts of terrorism. Terrorism seeks to spread an ideology and make those who don't comply fearful of more heinous acts. The story of Abraham is meant to be encouraging in which the reader feels that even in the most hopeless situations, they can trust God to make a way out of no way.
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Post by goz on Oct 6, 2020 1:20:21 GMT
The story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a story I wasn't comfortable listening to back when I was young. However, the more I read the story, I understood it to be a test of faith. Remember, God told Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous as stars. In Genesis 22:5, Abraham told his servants that he and Isaac would return. So, it implies that Abraham knew that God would keep his promise even though he didn't know how since he had been ordered to sacrifice him. I believe you go too far to compare the story to acts of terrorism. Terrorism seeks to spread an ideology and make those who don't comply fearful of more heinous acts. The story of Abraham is meant to be encouraging in which the reader feels that even in the most hopeless situations, they can trust God to make a way out of no way. Why does God need to test human's faith in the first place?
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Post by Archelaus on Oct 6, 2020 1:26:54 GMT
The story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a story I wasn't comfortable listening to back when I was young. However, the more I read the story, I understood it to be a test of faith. Remember, God told Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous as stars. In Genesis 22:5, Abraham told his servants that he and Isaac would return. So, it implies that Abraham knew that God would keep his promise even though he didn't know how since he had been ordered to sacrifice him. I believe you go too far to compare the story to acts of terrorism. Terrorism seeks to spread an ideology and make those who don't comply fearful of more heinous acts. The story of Abraham is meant to be encouraging in which the reader feels that even in the most hopeless situations, they can trust God to make a way out of no way. Why does God need to test human's faith in the first place? God does like to be placed first in every aspect of our lives, and he wants us to trust him wholeheartedly to supply and meet our needs.
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Post by goz on Oct 6, 2020 1:29:08 GMT
Why does God need to test human's faith in the first place? God does like to be placed first in every aspect of our lives, and he wants us to trust him wholeheartedly to supply and meet our needs. You do know that is emotional blackmail, right?
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Post by Archelaus on Oct 6, 2020 1:34:33 GMT
God does like to be placed first in every aspect of our lives, and he wants us to trust him wholeheartedly to supply and meet our needs. You do know that is emotional blackmail, right? This, again? Once again, God does not emotionally blackmail anyone. If you don't place God first, then, by all means, rely on yourself and those around you to carry you through in life. No one is forced to place God first in their lives, but they are encouraged to because it's seen as pleasing to God.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Oct 6, 2020 1:44:29 GMT
The story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a story I wasn't comfortable listening to back when I was young. However, the more I read the story, I understood it to be a test of faith. Remember, God told Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous as stars. In Genesis 22:5, Abraham told his servants that he and Isaac would return. So, it implies that Abraham knew that God would keep his promise even though he didn't know how since he had been ordered to sacrifice him. I believe you go too far to compare the story to acts of terrorism. Terrorism seeks to spread an ideology and make those who don't comply fearful of more heinous acts. The story of Abraham is meant to be encouraging in which the reader feels that even in the most hopeless situations, they can trust God to make a way out of no way. Imagine the days of terror Abraham as a father being asked to kill his own son and how horrified young Isaac must have been? We would imprison any parent who tried to kill his son claiming God told him to. On top of that, God had already told Abraham to throw his first born son Ishmael and his mother out into the wilderness. God does save the mother and child's lives, but Abraham does not know that at the time. He tosses them out and never thinks of Ishmael again. Why does God have to be such as asshole to prove his points. It would have been kinder to just tell Abraham to not sacrifice humans. Anyway, if the Hebrews were not practicing human sacrifice, then why did they need a lesson to begin with?
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Oct 6, 2020 1:46:33 GMT
Why does God need to test human's faith in the first place? God does like to be placed first in every aspect of our lives, and he wants us to trust him wholeheartedly to supply and meet our needs. How could anyone trust a God that is so cruel to his children. God might be Almighty, but he sucks as a parent.
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Post by Archelaus on Oct 6, 2020 2:05:02 GMT
The story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac was a story I wasn't comfortable listening to back when I was young. However, the more I read the story, I understood it to be a test of faith. Remember, God told Abraham that his descendants will be as numerous as stars. In Genesis 22:5, Abraham told his servants that he and Isaac would return. So, it implies that Abraham knew that God would keep his promise even though he didn't know how since he had been ordered to sacrifice him. I believe you go too far to compare the story to acts of terrorism. Terrorism seeks to spread an ideology and make those who don't comply fearful of more heinous acts. The story of Abraham is meant to be encouraging in which the reader feels that even in the most hopeless situations, they can trust God to make a way out of no way. Imagine the days of terror Abraham as a father being asked to kill his own son and how horrified young Isaac must have been? We would imprison any parent who tried to kill his son claiming God told him to. On top of that, God had already told Abraham to throw his first born son Ishmael and his mother out into the wilderness. God does save the mother and child's lives, but Abraham does not know that at the time. He tosses them out and never thinks of Ishmael again. Why does God have to be such as asshole to prove his points. It would have been kinder to just tell Abraham to not sacrifice humans. Anyway, if the Hebrews were not practicing human sacrifice, then why did they need a lesson to begin with? Excellent question. What I can tell you is that God loves to get the glory from every improbable situation. In John 11:4, which tells of Lazarus's death, Jesus said, "This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it." So, God allowed Lazarus to die so that Jesus could use the opportunity to demonstrate a miracle by which people would see that Jesus is the Messiah. God does like to be placed first in every aspect of our lives, and he wants us to trust him wholeheartedly to supply and meet our needs. How could anyone trust a God that is so cruel to his children. God might be Almighty, but he sucks as a parent. Cruel? God loves his children. We all know the famous scripture that says "For God so loved the world..." Sure, he allows bad things to happen, but he intends for these situations to make us stronger in our walk with him.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Oct 6, 2020 2:17:33 GMT
Imagine the days of terror Abraham as a father being asked to kill his own son and how horrified young Isaac must have been? We would imprison any parent who tried to kill his son claiming God told him to. On top of that, God had already told Abraham to throw his first born son Ishmael and his mother out into the wilderness. God does save the mother and child's lives, but Abraham does not know that at the time. He tosses them out and never thinks of Ishmael again. Why does God have to be such as asshole to prove his points. It would have been kinder to just tell Abraham to not sacrifice humans. Anyway, if the Hebrews were not practicing human sacrifice, then why did they need a lesson to begin with? Excellent question. What I can tell you is that God loves to get the glory from every improbable situation. In John 11:4, which tells of Lazarus's death, Jesus said, "This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it." So, God allowed Lazarus to die so that Jesus could use the opportunity to demonstrate a miracle by which people would see that Jesus is the Messiah. How could anyone trust a God that is so cruel to his children. God might be Almighty, but he sucks as a parent. Cruel? God loves his children. We all know the famous scripture that says "For God so loved the world..." Sure, he allows bad things to happen, but he intends for these situations to make us stronger in our walk with him. Yeah. He's a full-tilt diva...he wants flowers, he wants parades, he wants a...monument built to the sky with his name plastered.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 6, 2020 3:26:47 GMT
It's so weird when theophobiacs present thigs as if there are only two options and they are based on their worldview. There was no conundrum and it's silly to suggest the only options involved Abraham being disingenuous and instead look to the obvious. Whether Abraham killed Isaac or not is irrelevant since Isaac would be the one to fulfill God's promises to Abraham. I love how that sentence causes some to go whonky despite it being discussed five gabillion times. Theophobes be like...  |
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Oct 6, 2020 4:37:02 GMT
It's so weird when theophobiacs present thigs as if there are only two options and they are based on their worldview. There was no conundrum and it's silly to suggest the only options involved Abraham being disingenuous and instead look to the obvious. Whether Abraham killed Isaac or not is irrelevant since Isaac would be the one to fulfill God's promises to Abraham. I love how that sentence causes some to go whonky despite it being discussed five gabillion times. Theophobes be like... Who here are theophobes? I just think the God in the Bible is a big phony. It’s Christians who insist on their God being the only valid one and everyone must obey him. And we point out what an asshole he is, theophiles be like 
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Post by SciFive on Oct 6, 2020 6:05:33 GMT
Another Bible Study class from a Bible-Hater.  |
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Post by goz on Oct 6, 2020 6:47:27 GMT
Another Bible Study class from a Bible-Hater. Why do you consistently designate everything said by someone who disagrees with your point of view...as hate said by a hater? It is a discussion Board. We present different and often opposing views. Can't you cope with that?
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Post by SciFive on Oct 6, 2020 7:26:42 GMT
Another Bible Study class from a Bible-Hater. Why do you consistently designate everything said by someone who disagrees with your point of view...as hate said by a hater? It is a discussion Board. We present different and often opposing views. Can't you cope with that? The dirty names people call God here and the OP question asking if God was embarrassed are clues. LOL |
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Post by Winter_King on Oct 6, 2020 10:03:46 GMT
The God of the Bible is big on human sacrifice.
He even came down to Earth to sacrifice Himself to Himself so he could save Humanity from Himself.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 6, 2020 10:29:18 GMT
The God of the Bible is big on human sacrifice. He even came down to Earth to sacrifice Himself to Himself so he could save Humanity from Himself. This isn’t Old Testament scripture, which is what people usually debate. |
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