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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:36:27 GMT
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 19:38:04 GMT
An earlier universe existed before the Big Bang and can still be observed today, Sir Roger Penrose has said, as he received the Nobel Prize for Physics yesterday. The timescale for the complete evaporation of a black hole is huge, possibly longer than the age of our current universe, www.ampgoo.com/an-earlier-universe-existed-before-the-big-bang-and-can-observed-today None of the previous four links in this thread suggest a supernatural cause, it may be noted.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:42:34 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:45:02 GMT
Sir Roger Penrose: 'The Big Bang was not the beginning. There was something before, and that something is what we will have in our future' (Whatever the heck it was!!!!)  |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 19:46:52 GMT
There is no logical reason why there cannot be an infinite regression of universes, provoked by something permanent in nature for which there is also no logical reason not to be. For one reason, with every new iteration, of necessity time begins over again.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:48:08 GMT
Something permanent in nature. Eternal. Like God. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 19:50:36 GMT
Something permanent in nature. Eternal. Like God. As already noted there is no mention of the purported supernatural in any of the links so far given here. We at least know that the natural exists and how old what exists is. And as one who 'does not proselytize' I hope your last message does not in any way promote a contested idea.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:54:40 GMT
A big eternal inanimate universe with no beginning and no end. Like a god. Except inanimate. No logical reason why a big inanimate thing couldn’t be eternal like a god, eh? Well, it’s not “settled science”. |
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 19:59:18 GMT
This sounds like Sun Worshipping. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 20:06:18 GMT
A big eternal inanimate universe with no beginning and no end. Like a god. Except inanimate. For a pantheist at least it would be very similar, yes. The notion of 'god' has always a moveable feast and it often ends up far from that which most would consider it a meaningful use of the word. However it is hard to find a scientist who claims the current (successfully existing) universe is anything else other than entirely natural, un-deliberate and with no moral viewpoint to pass on to its denizens. There is no reason of course why a reality cannot be animated eventually by purely natural processes. That's what I said, although the cause is likely to be something very very small rather big as with the idea of the original singularity. At this level it is certainly theoretical and speculative, yes.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 20:09:05 GMT
An eternal anything suggests it’s possible for an eternal something else. We probably look like gods to fish (except to whales and sharks). LOL |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 20:10:24 GMT
This sounds like Sun Worshipping. Sun worshipping has two big advantages: 1. we know the sun exists and 2. It is clearly a major source for starting/sustaining life on earth. The Egyptians had a lot of time for Ra god of the sun and creator god, a eminence shared with other early societies. But today the power and majesty of nature is not something most people worship in such a way.
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 7, 2020 20:13:50 GMT
He probably likes watching the chaos.  |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 7, 2020 20:13:58 GMT
An eternal anything suggests it’s possible for an eternal something else. Indeed; but as you are not proselytizing for that alternative I am sure you will consider first something we know exists (the natural) and exhaust its possibilities before advocating a whole new level of reality. Whale are not fish but I appreciate the point...
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 20:14:48 GMT
The theory in Judaism is that humans knew God existed before they started sun worshipping.
They pointed repeatedly to a big accomplishment and then mistakenly started worshipping it on its own.
Everyone else’s mileage may vary.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 20:16:22 GMT
Yeah, whales are manmals. Big ones. I watched Deep Blue Sea 3 last night so my mind was on sharks a bit. |
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Post by Isapop on Oct 7, 2020 21:24:32 GMT
When you’ve created a universe, let me know. More ridiculousness. Just as no one, including you, needs to have created a universe to judge whether things taught about Zeus, God of the ancient Greeks, deserve to be believed, no one needs to have created a universe to judge whether things taught about the God of the Bible deserve to be believed.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 21:27:37 GMT
When you’ve created a universe, let me know. You’re asking people not to believe, which puts you in competition with an infinite being. You can’t compete. |
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Post by Isapop on Oct 7, 2020 21:31:10 GMT
You’re asking people not to believe, which puts you in competition with an infinite being. You can’t compete. The competition is for belief between what makes sense and what makes no sense.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 7, 2020 21:35:02 GMT
As mentioned elsewhere here, I took a class in Indian Philosophy in college and it was almost entirely about Hinduism.
The professor was visiting from Mumbai.
We were fascinated by every word he said.
The students were 1000% respectful and really interested in the subject matter.
It’s about tolerance and the thirst for knowledge.
I took Chinese Philosophy later and it was about their 5000 year old traditions including Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism.
Again, 1000% respect. The professor was visiting from China.
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