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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 12, 2020 11:19:14 GMT
I am confused by your evasiveness. Children grow up and are "conditioned" by their communities constructs as they grow. You’re confessing that you can’t think for yourself, in other words. You are your own problem. More circular deflection. I didn't have my parents force a religion onto me, so I WAS able to think for myself. I went to Christian churches and gatherings occasionally and some of the stories were interesting to hear, but they did not gel or make much sense or logical reasoning. Are you saying that you don't want children to think for themselves, so it is ok to condition ones religious beliefs onto them?
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Post by SciFive on Oct 12, 2020 11:22:10 GMT
You’re confessing that you can’t think for yourself, in other words. You are your own problem. Communities have their own cultures. You’re spinning around in circles to waste my time. Do you have anything intelligent to say or not? |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 12, 2020 11:26:33 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. You’re spinning around in circles to waste my time. Do you have anything intelligent to say or not? You are not answering the question because you don't want to incriminate yourself, but your circular responses are doing this for you. If you are defending the religious culture of communities, then you DO believe it is ok to force ones religious beliefs onto children. Nasty!
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Post by SciFive on Oct 12, 2020 11:30:03 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. You’re spinning around in circles to waste my time. Do you have anything intelligent to say or not? Communities have their own cultures. It’s part of the human experience. You’re Toast. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 12, 2020 11:33:00 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. It’s part of the human existence. You’re Toast. More melange to avoid expressing what you really believe about proselytizing religion onto children and NOT allowing them to decide for themselves what is rational, reasonable and logical regarding the universe in which they inhibit. Odious!
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Post by SciFive on Oct 12, 2020 11:34:29 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. It’s part of the human existence. You’re Toast. You’re proselytizing to me. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 12, 2020 11:38:30 GMT
You’re proselytizing to me. What?
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Post by SciFive on Oct 12, 2020 11:41:47 GMT
You’re proselytizing to me. What? Anti-religionism.  |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Oct 12, 2020 12:02:26 GMT
Anti-religionism. Anti-rationale.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 12, 2020 12:12:23 GMT
Everything you guys say pushes me farther away from your intolerance. A Catholic Priest proposed the Big Bang theory. Put that in your pipes and smoke it. |
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 14, 2020 0:34:18 GMT
Actually, it's more than 5 billion people who believe in God...
How many believers are there around the world?
...
No, five billion people believe in one of several thousand "Gods". If they all believed in the same God, then they would all be Jewish (or Episcopal, or LDS, or JW, or Muslim, or Catholic, or Hindu, or SeventhDayAdventist, or Church of Christ Scientist, or Lutheran, or pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) And they all believe that their God is the one and only true God. Why? Heritage. Did you study the Book of Mormon with the same intensity that you studied the Torah and then make a decision? No,you only studied the same scripture that your parents allowed you to study. By your own word, you're not allowed to study anything else. I believe in freedom of religion, but apparently you don't.
You keep telling me that your God is good, yet you have yet to explain any of the evil that I pointed out in the OP.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 14, 2020 0:56:41 GMT
Rodney Farber I was presenting the Jewish perspective from a Jewish teaching group of rabbis about why God doesn’t prove His existence today.. I’m not asking anyone to believe anything. It was information. If you had said that you believed that God gave us basic directions, then this thread would not exist.
No, in the OP, you asserted that fact (as you have been indoctrinated to do). When I ask for substantiation or when I ask you to "interpret" what I consider evil passages in the Torah, you simply ignore and call me a bigot.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 0:58:58 GMT
Rodney FarberThe Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) all believe in the same God. Abraham is the patriarch of all three. This accounts for 4.3 billion people. Hinduism is 1.2 billion and Buddhism is 506 million.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 14, 2020 14:21:16 GMT
... So instead, He (God) brought us here, gave us basic directions, held on to us for a while, sending us Moses and the prophets and then the sages, and then eventually, took off the training wheels and let us go.... ... As a professed Jew, I'm going assume that "basic directions" means the Old Testament. If he "let us go", why do we bother to pray to Him? He's gone. Let's take a look at some of His "basic directions": "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3) Is He admitting there are other Gods? Actually, yes. Judaism is a monotheistic religion, but not in the sense that there is only one god. It has evolved into that, but that is not how it was in the beginning. Each people had their own god or gods, and Yahweh was the god of the Israelites - not the Amalekites, the Canaanites or the Kushites, but specifically the Israelites. For example, when Moses demanded that the pharao let the Israelites go, the Egyptian priests turned their staves into snakes. Moses turned his staff into a snake as well, and his snake devoured the snakes of the Egyptian priests. This was a message that the god of the Israelites was more powerful than the Egyptian gods. But the Egyptians were able to do magic, which more than implies that their gods were real as well. I find his description spot on.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 14, 2020 14:25:55 GMT
As a professed Jew, I'm going assume that "basic directions" means the Old Testament. If he "let us go", why do we bother to pray to Him? He's gone. Let's take a look at some of His "basic directions": "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3) Is He admitting there are other Gods? If a woman touches a man's private parts, cut off her hands (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) The courts would not let me do that to my first wife when I caught her fondling our neighbor. It's OK to own and beat slaves as long as they don't die within a couple of days. (Exodus 21: 20-21) Unruly children should be stoned to death (Deuteronomy 21: 18-21) Adultery is punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10) How did Donald Trump get away with it? How do you feel about Richard Dawkins' quote: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” Old Testament times were very brutal and immoral before you count the "Chosen." It is not clear how that happened. Many assume it was a condition of the "fallen world" and the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," or perhaps "free will" run amok. The god of the Old Testament does not accept the blame for that. Rather the Old Testament is the story of that god teaching people how to introduce morality into this world. It was a long and slow process, obviously not complete yet. Richard Dawkins is neither intelligent nor especially well educated. You should disregard his opinions, just as people will disregard yours if you don't learn history better. Why not? It's his creation. People acting on a nature which he specifically designed. And, might I add, the people of the Old Testament do not seem much different than the people in the New Testament - or people since then.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 14:45:33 GMT
“Judaism is a monotheistic religion, but not in the sense that there is only one god.”
—-/
Judaism has been ETHICAL MONOTHEISM from day one.
Only One God.
Never more than this for a single split second.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 14:48:38 GMT
The Hebrews didn’t originate in Egypt.
Abraham came from Iraq.
His son Isaac was born in the Holy Land and never left it.
Isaac’s son Jacob went to Egypt with an entourage that included his family due to a famine.
Jacob’s descendants escaped from Egypt later.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 14, 2020 16:05:38 GMT
“Judaism is a monotheistic religion, but not in the sense that there is only one god.” —-/ Judaism has been ETHICAL MONOTHEISM from day one. Only One God. Never more than this for a single split second. Only one god to be worshipped. The notion that no other gods even existed is one that evolved over time. The inception of Judaism is within Canaanite polytheism, of which it is an offshoot.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 16:07:54 GMT
“Judaism is a monotheistic religion, but not in the sense that there is only one god.” —-/ Judaism has been ETHICAL MONOTHEISM from day one. Only One God. Never more than this for a single split second. Only one god to be worshipped. The notion that no other gods even existed is one that evolved over time. The inception of Judaism is within Canaanite polytheism, of which it is an offshoot. Abraham came from Iraq. He was a Hebrew while still in Iraq. He was told many times to go to the Promised Land - from Iraq. Judaism is not an offshoot of the Canaanites. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Oct 14, 2020 16:10:51 GMT
Old Testament times were very brutal and immoral before you count the "Chosen." It is not clear how that happened. Many assume it was a condition of the "fallen world" and the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," or perhaps "free will" run amok. The god of the Old Testament does not accept the blame for that. Rather the Old Testament is the story of that god teaching people how to introduce morality into this world. It was a long and slow process, obviously not complete yet. Richard Dawkins is neither intelligent nor especially well educated. You should disregard his opinions, just as people will disregard yours if you don't learn history better. Why not? It's his creation. People acting on a nature which he specifically designed. And, might I add, the people of the Old Testament do not seem much different than the people in the New Testament - or people since then. It's obvious that you cannot understand the concept of free will. I suppose a perfect world with no choices might be great. This is obviously not a perfect world though. Many believe and I agree that the best possible world is one where people choose good.
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