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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 14, 2020 16:13:27 GMT
Only one god to be worshipped. The notion that no other gods even existed is one that evolved over time. The inception of Judaism is within Canaanite polytheism, of which it is an offshoot. Abraham came from Iraq. He was a Hebrew while still in Iraq. He was told many times to go to the Promised Land - from Iraq. Judaism is not an offshoot of the Canaanites. Abraham, in all likelihood, did not exist. Judaism can be traced to Canaanite religion. It started its life as a separate religion during the Babylonian captivity. Yahweh became the sole god some time during the 7th century BC, under the reign of King Josiah.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 16:20:11 GMT
Abraham came from Iraq. He was a Hebrew while still in Iraq. He was told many times to go to the Promised Land - from Iraq. Judaism is not an offshoot of the Canaanites. Abraham, in all likelihood, did not exist. Abraham is buried in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He came from Iraq.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 14, 2020 17:07:51 GMT
Abraham, in all likelihood, did not exist. Abraham is buried in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He came from Iraq. The Abraham story cannot be definitively related to any specific time, and it is widely agreed that the patriarchal age, along with The Exodus and the period of the judges, is a late literary construct that does not relate to any period in actual history. A common hypothesis among scholars is that it was composed in the early Persian period (late 6th century BCE) as a result of tensions between Jewish landowners who had stayed in Judah during the Babylonian captivity and traced their right to the land through their "father Abraham", and the returning exiles who based their counterclaim on Moses and The Exodus tradition... In the early and middle 20th century, leading archaeologists such as William F. Albright and biblical scholars such as Albrecht Alt believed that the patriarchs and matriarchs were either real individuals or believable composites of people who lived in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE. But, in the 1970s, new arguments concerning Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged these views; these arguments can be found in Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson, a literary scholar, based his argument on archaeology and ancient texts. His thesis centered on the lack of compelling evidence that the patriarchs lived in the 2nd millennium BCE, and noted how certain biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns. Van Seters examined the patriarchal stories and argued that their names, social milieu, and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations. By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible historical figures. [Wiki] I hope that helps.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 14, 2020 17:12:33 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. It’s part of the human experience. Never the less in more enlightened days, one can quite reasonable question the culture of communities which, for instance involves the genital mutilation of children who cannot give legal consent. A good job you are not proselytizing for such practices isn't it?
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 17:16:57 GMT
Abraham is buried in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He came from Iraq. God is not your copilot. Atheism is your religion.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 17:18:38 GMT
Communities have their own cultures. It’s part of the human experience. Most American men of all religions were circumcised in the 1940s, 1950s, and beyond. In Africa, they recommend it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 14, 2020 17:26:07 GMT
God is not your copilot. Atheism is your religion. Thank you for an, entirely expected, non-sequitur, and for ignoring the developments within modern scholarship I mentioned. You also really ought to be able to distinguish between a religion which is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods - and something just followed religiously, that would be (in one meaning) something followed with consistent and conscientious regularity, such as attending to discussions on this board. I am sure by conflating the two you are not at all being disingenuous.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 14, 2020 17:31:57 GMT
Most American men of all religions were circumcised in the 1940s, 1950s, and beyond. In Africa, they recommend it. In Africa female circumcision may well be 'recommended' if that is what you mean but it is gradually facing opposition. I have no objection to people who wish to mutilate their own genitals if they can consent as adults. But as already mentioned children are as much legally able to consent to this as they can to sexual intercourse (when it is deemed statutory rape, as I am sure you know). The God of the OT (or his representatives) of course was keen on the collection of foreskins, through the mutilation of the conquered. EG 1: Sam 18 Saul replied, "Say to David, 'The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Philistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.'" It is a good job you are not proselytizing on behalf of such things or one might feel a bit put off.
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 17:36:39 GMT
Live and let live.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 14, 2020 17:38:50 GMT
The second time within ten minutes you have used the same platitude rather than addressing the specific points raised om different threads LOL. It risks looking as if that is all you have.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 14, 2020 21:35:41 GMT
Rodney Farber The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) all believe in the same God. Abraham is the patriarch of all three. This accounts for 4.3 billion people. Hinduism is 1.2 billion and Buddhism is 506 million. Hogwash. They are all different Gods. How often have you entered a Catholic church to pray to the same God that's at your Temple? Right there is adequate evidence that you're full of s***. Does your God allow you to eat a bacon cheeseburger? The Christian God does. (S)He must be a different God. Does your God prescribe the death penalty if you choose a different faith? The Islamic God does. Does your God forbid blood transfusions? Jehovah does. The God of the Church of Christ Scientist will cure any ailment you have. (S)He forbids medical treatment. Does yours? Does your God promise eternal life if you kiss his ass while you're alive? What's your rational for all of this? Do you save your daily bowel movements so that you can use them to cook bread as directed in Yechezkel (a.k.a. Ezekiel), chapter 4, verse 12? Are you going to ignore these questions as you have with all my previous questions?
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Post by SciFive on Oct 14, 2020 21:46:46 GMT
Rodney Farber The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) all believe in the same God. Abraham is the patriarch of all three. This accounts for 4.3 billion people. Hinduism is 1.2 billion and Buddhism is 506 million. Look up the meaning of ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS. There are three. Judaism Christianity Islam
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 15, 2020 6:03:06 GMT
Why not? It's his creation. People acting on a nature which he specifically designed. And, might I add, the people of the Old Testament do not seem much different than the people in the New Testament - or people since then. It's obvious that you cannot understand the concept of free will. I suppose a perfect world with no choices might be great. This is obviously not a perfect world though. Many believe and I agree that the best possible world is one where people choose good. Leaving aside the fact that free will is but an illusion, do you suppose Enoch had free will? Why not create people to have natures such as Enoch's? The best possible world is not one where people choose good, but where people do not choose evil. It is certainly not enough that a very few people choose good most of the time, a lot of people choose good a lot of the time, and a great many choose good only some of the time.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 15, 2020 6:06:14 GMT
Abraham, in all likelihood, did not exist. Abraham is buried in the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He came from Iraq. According to Jewish tradition. There is no actual evidence of this.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 15, 2020 6:10:52 GMT
Rodney Farber The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) all believe in the same God. Abraham is the patriarch of all three. This accounts for 4.3 billion people. Hinduism is 1.2 billion and Buddhism is 506 million. Hogwash. They are all different Gods. How often have you entered a Catholic church to pray to the same God that's at your Temple? Right there is adequate evidence that you're full of s***. Does your God allow you to eat a bacon cheeseburger? The Christian God does. (S)He must be a different God. Does your God prescribe the death penalty if you choose a different faith? The Islamic God does. Does your God forbid blood transfusions? Jehovah does. The God of the Church of Christ Scientist will cure any ailment you have. (S)He forbids medical treatment. Does yours? Does your God promise eternal life if you kiss his ass while you're alive? What's your rational for all of this? Do you save your daily bowel movements so that you can use them to cook bread as directed in Yechezkel (a.k.a. Ezekiel), chapter 4, verse 12? Are you going to ignore these questions as you have with all my previous questions? Many conservatives in the US think Trump is the bee's knee's. Most liberals, however, think he's a piece of shit. Are they talking about different people? No, it is merely different interpretations of the same person. In just the same way, Jews, Christians and Muslims have different views of what the God of Abraham is like. But it's still the God of Abraham.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Oct 15, 2020 16:02:11 GMT
Many conservatives in the US think Trump is the bee's knee's. Most liberals, however, think he's a piece of shit. Are they talking about different people? No, it is merely different interpretations of the same person. In just the same way, Jews, Christians and Muslims have different views of what the God of Abraham is like. But it's still the God of Abraham. You are confusing fact with opinion. Does God forbid eating of meat on Friday during Lent? It's either yes or no. Does God require men to be circumcised? It's either yes or no. If there is only one God, what are his rules so that I can obey them. If these are all from the God of Abraham, what about Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. These are Gods too. Logically, the number of Gods is not equal to one. It's either more or less. And where does Jesus Christ fit into this picture. Two thousand years ago, God came to this earth and had sex with Mary. He was so proud of what He had done that He stood up, thumped His chest, and announced, " I'M THOR", to which Mary replied, "You're thore? I'm tho thore, I can't pith."
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Post by Arlon10 on Oct 15, 2020 16:05:14 GMT
It's obvious that you cannot understand the concept of free will. I suppose a perfect world with no choices might be great. This is obviously not a perfect world though. Many believe and I agree that the best possible world is one where people choose good. Leaving aside the fact that free will is but an illusion, do you suppose Enoch had free will? Why not create people to have natures such as Enoch's? The best possible world is not one where people choose good, but where people do not choose evil. It is certainly not enough that a very few people choose good most of the time, a lot of people choose good a lot of the time, and a great many choose good only some of the time. Leaving aside the fact that the law considers you have choices whatever nonsense "science" you through at them, you are just playing with words and missing the point. Being able to "choose" good requires that there be something else to choose that is not good, however scary or nonsensical that might seem to you. Can you not image a world where the newbies are at last done and everyone makes good choices freely? Since you have no better answers to these conundrums yourself, and you are not likely to lead anyone anywhere anyway, your speculating about what would be a perfect world is utterly useless, if anyone's is. I certainly don't think you know any better what would be a perfect world. Why should anyone think you know better? It's not like the "problem of evil" is not just as much your problem as it is other people's. It isn't really something I have to solve for you. If you were truly a "fatalist" you'd know better than to complain anyway. Has the issue of your competence been a problem before? Also your attitude that if someone else can see something and you cannot, they must be the one mistaken is highly suspect. Please consider you could be just as mistaken and they could be the one (or vast group) correct.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 15, 2020 19:39:25 GMT
Leaving aside the fact that free will is but an illusion, do you suppose Enoch had free will? Why not create people to have natures such as Enoch's? The best possible world is not one where people choose good, but where people do not choose evil. It is certainly not enough that a very few people choose good most of the time, a lot of people choose good a lot of the time, and a great many choose good only some of the time. Leaving aside the fact that the law considers you have choices whatever nonsense "science" you through at them, Freedom of choice is not the same as free will. I could choose to drink urine, that is a choice which is available to me, but as I have zero desire or motivation to do so, I am never going to choose that. No, you're missing the point. The ability to choose evil would still be there even if we had no desire to do evil. Why not just create people without the desire to do evil? Who could possibly be the loser? The choice would be just as free if there were no desire to do evil. Or are you saying Enoch did not have free will? The only thing this shows is that I struck a nerve, for you to take it this personally. Again. I know better than your god, that's for sure. I could, say, create Eden but not create the parameters that would make the Fall even possible. After all, in your view, was the world not perfect before the Fall? Because I have the arguments, and can spot the obvious flaws in God's vision where you cannot. You're not even making any sense here. Why call me a fatalist? Is that the limit of your vision, that you cannot distinguish determinism from fatalism? Is that why you cling to your fantasy? What's suspect is that accusation. Just because I say you are wrong doesn't mean that I accuse people who see what I cannot of the same. I'm the one who sees what you can't, not the other way around. But YOU cannot be mistaken? You're showing your true colours.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Oct 15, 2020 19:44:13 GMT
Many conservatives in the US think Trump is the bee's knee's. Most liberals, however, think he's a piece of shit. Are they talking about different people? No, it is merely different interpretations of the same person. In just the same way, Jews, Christians and Muslims have different views of what the God of Abraham is like. But it's still the God of Abraham. You are confusing fact with opinion. You're quoting me as doing just the opposite. Of course it's either yes or no. But the Bible says both. Read Paul. Yes, those are gods, too, but none of which claim to be the God of Abraham. It can be any number. But of the three main Abrahamic faiths, sure, not all can be correct. But all can be wrong, of course.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Oct 15, 2020 20:04:21 GMT
But of the three main Abrahamic faiths, sure, not all can be correct. But all can be wrong, of course. It ought to be observed that many Christians - including at least one on this board - argue vehemently that Islam and Christianity do not share the same God.
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