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Post by Huxley on Nov 1, 2020 23:00:50 GMT
No, no my dear fellow. you don't beg when you ask for a promise. Not quite sure what you are driving at here, I tend to find a simple zinger does not convey the meaning of a good argument, but I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Christians use prayer as a means of asking god for favours or presents, which is in a way begging god for things. There are many things God has promised to those who believe him and do his will. My point is there is no need to beg God for what he's already promised.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 1, 2020 23:03:15 GMT
Not quite sure what you are driving at here, I tend to find a simple zinger does not convey the meaning of a good argument, but I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Christians use prayer as a means of asking god for favours or presents, which is in a way begging god for things. There are many things God has promised to those who believe him and do his will. My point is there is no need to beg God for what he's already promised. So you disagree that many contemporary Christians use prayer to ask God for things?
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Post by Huxley on Nov 1, 2020 23:04:49 GMT
There are many things God has promised to those who believe him and do his will. My point is there is no need to beg God for what he's already promised. So you disagree that many contemporary Christians use prayer to ask God for things? No.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 1, 2020 23:23:37 GMT
So you disagree that many contemporary Christians use prayer to ask God for things? No. Right, so I am not really sure where this conversation is going, are you agreeing with me? if so cool no more needs to be said, if not maybe you can explain what you are trying to express to me?
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Post by goz on Nov 2, 2020 2:33:42 GMT
Right, so I am not really sure where this conversation is going, are you agreeing with me? if so cool no more needs to be said, if not maybe you can explain what you are trying to express to me? I have been at work and don't wish to interrupt nor pre-empt the other poster's responses, however, are you making a claim that prayer can work due to the psychological effect it can have for clarifying the prayer's thoughts, or are you saying that prayer works because there is a two way interaction with your God? ( see how I am not presuming there is not God here, unlike some, due to the fact that it is your...or the prayer in general's) personal God. To me the pschyological benefit is a dualism of personal belief in the God ( if so) and also the crystalising of ideas of the prayer, to aid understanding and personal growth. What say you
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Post by gadreel on Nov 2, 2020 20:51:57 GMT
Right, so I am not really sure where this conversation is going, are you agreeing with me? if so cool no more needs to be said, if not maybe you can explain what you are trying to express to me? I have been at work and don't wish to interrupt nor pre-empt the other poster's responses, however, are you making a claim that prayer can work due to the psychological effect it can have for clarifying the prayer's thoughts, or are you saying that prayer works because there is a two way interaction with your God? ( see how I am not presuming there is not God here, unlike some, due to the fact that it is your...or the prayer in general's) personal God. To me the pschyological benefit is a dualism of personal belief in the God ( if so) and also the crystalising of ideas of the prayer, to aid understanding and personal growth. What say you I think there are a number of sorts of prayer, the least efficient is the 'beg god for favours' sort of prayer, but I feel that even that sort of prayer has a chance to crystallise your own personal thoughts (those of the prayerer) and therefore have some, albeit likely an almost negligible amount, of effect on the real world. IF God exists and is responsive to prayer, then I suppose there is that effect, I must confess though I have never seen it.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Nov 2, 2020 21:43:23 GMT
Does God have a plan? Does He know what's going to happen three months from today? If so, what good is praying? If my brother is destined to get killed in a car accident on January 8th, why would God alter his plan just for one (or more) prayers?
However, if at least 38 people pray for the end of Covid, and they do it every day, Covid will disappear by 2024. God has willed it. Perhaps, that already is His plan.
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Post by Archelaus on Nov 2, 2020 21:51:34 GMT
I believe prayer still works. It's natural that diseases like COVID-19 will see spikes during this time of year because it thrives in cold conditions. However, people need to continue to wear a mask. Showing up to a Trump rally without a mask is dangerous. You can't blame God for people being stupid.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 2, 2020 22:25:33 GMT
There was a professor, not mine. friends told me about him and I "audited" his class. That means I attended without being enrolled in it. He seemed to think if enough people agreed on something and too few disagreed then it would happen. It was not part of any religion. That was the "wonders of science" people. Now who's crazy? I've been trying to tell you for a long time now "science" is not the bulwark of conservatism you think it is. It's just as crazy as any so called "fundamentalist." Notice recent discussions on "determinism" and infinite regression.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 2, 2020 22:36:12 GMT
There was a professor, not mine. friends told me about him and I "audited" his class. That means I attended without being enrolled in it. He seemed to think if enough people agreed on something and too few disagreed then it would happen. It was not part of any religion. That was the "wonders of science" people. Now who's crazy? I've been trying to tell you for a long time now "science" is not the bulwark of conservatism you think it is. It's just as crazy as any so called "fundamentalist." Notice recent discussions on "determinism" and infinite regression. Yes, you have been trying to tell people, but your inability to form intelligent sentences and your complete lack of any kind of understanding of the subject matter has led us all to dismiss you as an insane crackpot.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 2, 2020 22:41:04 GMT
There was a professor, not mine. friends told me about him and I "audited" his class. That means I attended without being enrolled in it. He seemed to think if enough people agreed on something and too few disagreed then it would happen. It was not part of any religion. That was the "wonders of science" people. Now who's crazy? I've been trying to tell you for a long time now "science" is not the bulwark of conservatism you think it is. It's just as crazy as any so called "fundamentalist." Notice recent discussions on "determinism" and infinite regression. Yes, you have been trying to tell people, but your inability to form intelligent sentences and your complete lack of any kind of understanding of the subject matter has led us all to dismiss you as an insane crackpot. Who exactly do you think is not an insane crackpot? Before you answer, just remember ... ... Pluto is round.
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