|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 7, 2020 7:13:12 GMT
Perhaps, but this is not an Aesop fable and whatever Arlon's intention is, it is not going to have resounding or coherent moral. He just made it up for his own amusement. It is one of Christ's Parables, & this is a religion forum, so why not post it, if he wants to discuss it? I never said he couldn't discuss it. And like most of Christ's parables, whoever this Christ thing is supposed to be, it is feeble.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 7, 2020 7:26:01 GMT
But surely you've heard at least one or two of them before, haven't you? Perhaps, but this is not an Aesop fable and whatever Arlon's intention is, it is not going to have resounding or coherent moral. He just made it up for his own amusement. While you never have a resounding or coherent moral, in the rest of the world things might be different.
|
|
|
|
Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 7, 2020 7:45:20 GMT
Perhaps, but this is not an Aesop fable and whatever Arlon's intention is, it is not going to have resounding or coherent moral. He just made it up for his own amusement. While you never have a resounding or coherent moral, in the rest of the world things might be different. I'd say Arlon, that where ever your world resides, things are very different in the real world.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 7, 2020 11:23:27 GMT
Perhaps, but this is not an Aesop fable and whatever Arlon's intention is, it is not going to have resounding or coherent moral. He just made it up for his own amusement. It is one of Christ's Parables, & this is a religion forum, so why not post it, if he wants to discuss it? Well, the nice thing about today is no one is obligated to do as your father wants.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 7, 2020 12:03:43 GMT
It is one of Christ's Parables, & this is a religion forum, so why not post it, if he wants to discuss it? Well, the nice thing about today is no one is obligated to do as your father wants. I suspect it's far more complicated than you will ever guess.
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 7, 2020 15:18:56 GMT
It is one of Christ's Parables, & this is a religion forum, so why not post it, if he wants to discuss it? Well, the nice thing about today is no one is obligated to do as your father wants. What about if you are working for your father's business...? 
|
|
|
|
Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 7, 2020 16:27:02 GMT
Well, the nice thing about today is no one is obligated to do as your father wants. What about if you are working for your father's business...? Like nepotism?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 7, 2020 19:50:02 GMT
What about if you are working for your father's business...? Like nepotism? Yep.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 7, 2020 19:54:53 GMT
Keeping his two sons on the payroll didn’t pan out too well for somebody I know. Actually two somebodies.  Maybe the vintner should consider hiring people with more experience and the motivation to succeed in the hospitality business. I’m assuming they are on the vineyard tour and wine tasting.
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Nov 7, 2020 22:47:11 GMT
Keeping his two sons on the payroll didn’t pan out too well for somebody I know. Actually two somebodies. Maybe the vintner should consider hiring people with more experience and the motivation to succeed in the hospitality business. I’m assuming they are on the vineyard tour and wine tasting. Yeah well, these things do happen. My childhood best friend's family had their own business, that was founded by her grandfather & great-uncle. The grandfather & great-uncle intended for it to be a family business, & employed all of their kids. All except one. The reason why was because she was living in another part of the province doing her own thing(with their mother, as the parents were divorced). Anyhow, when the grandfather (or father)died, that one family member who did not partake in the running the business came back to Toronto, & she one-by-one, managed to kick out her brother (my childhood friend's father), their cousins, & last, but, not least, their stepsister from the business, & took it over for herself. The business does very well right down to this very day (I see it on just about every single corner in Toronto & surrounding area, & if you have ever been to Toronto, then you have too - maybe in used it), but, the entire family despises her, right down to this very day.
|
|
|
|
Post by rizdek on Nov 8, 2020 8:49:21 GMT
Neither one. Neither one, unless you believe the father wanted the first one to say he wouldn't go work. Do you think in this parable the father wanted the son to say no?
If God is the 'father' in this scenario, we don't really know who did what he wanted. No one knows the mind of God but God....
...and my cat.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2020 10:38:14 GMT
Neither one. Neither one, unless you believe the father wanted the first one to say he wouldn't go work. Do you think in this parable the father wanted the son to say no?
If God is the 'father' in this scenario, we don't really know who did what he wanted. No one knows the mind of God but God.... ...and my cat.
I think you're assuming the first one lied. I know it's difficult but s-t-r-e-t-c-h your brains. Maybe he didn't lie. Maybe he thought he had other obligations and then remembered he already took care of them or maybe someone else cancelled the other job or someone else volunteered for the other job. Of course by the same token maybe the second son genuinely intended to work in the vineyard, but forgot some earlier commitment, then later was reminded of it by that party. All in all the first son was being more careful to meet his commitments, to only promise what he was certain to deliver. Second son was more likely just not paying close attention to much of anything. I hope you aren't like those atheists who find "contradictions" in the Bible because they have such a simplistic view of the world and assume all writing covers all the possibilities for all time and circumstances. Have you ever tried writing?
|
|
|
|
Post by rizdek on Nov 8, 2020 12:12:20 GMT
Neither one. Neither one, unless you believe the father wanted the first one to say he wouldn't go work. Do you think in this parable the father wanted the son to say no?
If God is the 'father' in this scenario, we don't really know who did what he wanted. No one knows the mind of God but God.... ...and my cat.
I know it's difficult but s-t-r-e-t-c-h your brains. Maybe he didn't lie. Maybe he thought he had other obligations and then remembered he already took care of them or maybe someone else cancelled the other job or someone else volunteered for the other job. Of course by the same token maybe the second son genuinely intended to work in the vineyard, but forgot some earlier commitment, then later was reminded of it by that party. All in all the first son was being more careful to meet his commitments, to only promise what he was certain to deliver. Second son was more likely just not paying close attention to much of anything. I hope you aren't like those atheists who find "contradictions" in the Bible because they have such a simplistic view of the world and assume all writing covers all the possibilities for all time and circumstances. Have you ever tried writing? I made no such assumption. I assumed in the story he at first didn't want to go then had a change of heart...there's no hint of other obligations. So one can fabricate any number of hidden motives/thoughts/rationale.
But if we're to read more into this than what's on paper, maybe the second son did agree to work, but then other pressing business called him away...and the father would understand.
I never claimed that was any kind of contradiction...it's a parable so does not reflect any kind of real life situation. It's a thought experiment. I think you're just tilting at make believe atheists here....someone else who lives rent free in your thoughts.
|
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 8, 2020 13:31:19 GMT
Neither one. Neither one, unless you believe the father wanted the first one to say he wouldn't go work. Do you think in this parable the father wanted the son to say no?
If God is the 'father' in this scenario, we don't really know who did what he wanted. No one knows the mind of God but God.... ...and my cat.
I hope you aren't like those atheists who find "contradictions" in the Bible And the reason why a patchwork document written by humans at different times, then variously edited and interpolated cannot possibly contain any contradictions is...
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2020 14:00:50 GMT
I hope you aren't like those atheists who find "contradictions" in the Bible And the reason why a patchwork document written by humans at different times, then variously edited and interpolated cannot possibly contain any contradictions is... I never said it "cannot." I suspect it "does not" because the people who compiled it are not as stupid as you think.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2020 14:04:18 GMT
I think you're assuming the first one lied. I know it's difficult but s-t-r-e-t-c-h your brains. Maybe he didn't lie. Maybe he thought he had other obligations and then remembered he already took care of them or maybe someone else cancelled the other job or someone else volunteered for the other job. Of course by the same token maybe the second son genuinely intended to work in the vineyard, but forgot some earlier commitment, then later was reminded of it by that party. All in all the first son was being more careful to meet his commitments, to only promise what he was certain to deliver. Second son was more likely just not paying close attention to much of anything. I hope you aren't like those atheists who find "contradictions" in the Bible because they have such a simplistic view of the world and assume all writing covers all the possibilities for all time and circumstances. Have you ever tried writing? I made no such assumption. I assumed in the story he at first didn't want to go then had a change of heart...there's no hint of other obligations. So one can fabricate any number of hidden motives/thoughts/rationale.
But if we're to read more into this than what's on paper, maybe the second son did agree to work, but then other pressing business called him away...and the father would understand.
I never claimed that was any kind of contradiction...it's a parable so does not reflect any kind of real life situation. It's a thought experiment. I think you're just tilting at make believe atheists here....someone else who lives rent free in your thoughts.
Maybe he didn't keep very good records.
|
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 8, 2020 14:07:15 GMT
And the reason why a patchwork document written by humans at different times, then variously edited and interpolated cannot possibly contain any contradictions is... I never said it "cannot." I suspect it "does not" because the people who compiled it are not as stupid as you think. I did not say you did. But thank you for your suspicions to which you are welcome. It is not only atheists who have found contradictions in the Bible as you ought to know. Such discoveries date back to when critical studies of the text became a thing. And ... don't tell me what I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2020 14:25:39 GMT
I never said it "cannot." I suspect it "does not" because the people who compiled it are not as stupid as you think. I did not say you did. But thank you for your suspicions to which you are welcome. It is not only atheists who have found contradictions in the Bible as you ought to know. Such discoveries date back to when critical studies of the text became a thing. And ... don't tell me what I think. If you don't like other people telling you what it seems to them you think, then maybe you should go away. Or did someone make you the boss? You do always act like you think you are a boss. You can't deny that.
|
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 8, 2020 14:42:32 GMT
If you don't like other people telling you what it seems to them you think, then maybe you should go away. It's not that I don't like it, more that only I can know what I think. I do so deny. I don't have the superiority complex to call all my opponents stupid or mentally handicapped, for instance, or determine Einstein and Darwin went wrong ... or argue with dictionaries and claim to win for that matter. But thank you for caring. And Bible scholarship admits of contradictions in the text. Only a fundamentalist and inerrantist minority argue otherwise. Fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Nov 8, 2020 15:03:17 GMT
If you don't like other people telling you what it seems to them you think, then maybe you should go away. It's not that I don't like it, more that only I can know what I think. I do so deny. I don't have the superiority complex to call all my opponents stupid or mentally handicapped, for instance ... or argue with dictionaries and claim to win. But thank you for caring. And Bible scholarship admits of contradictions in the text. Only a fundamentalist and inerrantist minority argue otherwise. Fact. I'm sure "Bible scholars" disagree with themselves, but being somewhat ahead of you as usual I do not think that necessarily means the Bible contradicts itself. Fact, from someone who actually knows what a fact is. Stop telling anyone here you lack beliefs when it is obvious to a child of twelve that you believe you know anything about evidence (but do not) and that you believe anyone defines a god the way you wish (although it might seem that way to you at your rudimentary reading level). See how domineering that was? Now realize you are just as domineering with the only difference that you are wrong and I am right.
|
|
