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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 4:14:36 GMT
That isn't exclusive to religious people. Maybe you just notice it more when it provides an argument against something you already oppose.
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Post by maya55555 on Nov 15, 2020 4:53:29 GMT
Name one single case of "child-rape" by a Catholic priest?
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 5:41:38 GMT
That isn't exclusive to religious people. Maybe you just notice it more when it provides an argument against something you already oppose. Well, I know the part about church clergy being overrun with sex perverts all over the world, however I don't think even the Catholic church forces its rape victims...raped by church pedophiles...to listen to herself being raped, then shame her for being a sinner! Then get the freaking supreme court to back them up because this is a religious thing. Jesus Christ, man. Why you are defending this? When did raping girls and boys get to be holy sacred thing? Did you really just accuse me of sanctifying rape? WTF, Paul? Maybe where you and I differ is that I don't care if it's a priest, a politician, a stranger, or my best friend. I don't hold any of them less guilty than any of the others.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 5:54:57 GMT
Name one single case of "child-rape" by a Catholic priest? Why is child-rape in quotes?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:10:04 GMT
That isn't exclusive to religious people. Maybe you just notice it more when it provides an argument against something you already oppose. It is noticed more because of the hypocrisy, the coverage and that the organization itself is deeply involved. It is also just more horrific, because these people are claiming to be the moral voice of humanity.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 6:15:28 GMT
That isn't exclusive to religious people. Maybe you just notice it more when it provides an argument against something you already oppose. It is noticed more because of the hypocrisy, the coverage and that the organization itself is deeply involved. It is also just more horrific, because these people are claiming to be the moral voice of humanity. Oh. Well. Hmm. In that case, I guess all the boys and girls who are raped by irreligious people should count their blessings.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:16:38 GMT
That isn't exclusive to religious people. Maybe you just notice it more when it provides an argument against something you already oppose. It is noticed more because of the hypocrisy, the coverage and that the organization itself is deeply involved. It is also just more horrific, because these people are claiming to be the moral voice of humanity. You got a point there. However, you could make the very same argument in cases where perpetrators were the victims own parents, grandparents, etc.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:22:25 GMT
It is noticed more because of the hypocrisy, the coverage and that the organization itself is deeply involved. It is also just more horrific, because these people are claiming to be the moral voice of humanity. You got a point there. However, you could make the very same argument in cases where perpetrators were the victims own parents, grandparents, etc. I don't see how those are even remotely similar. Parents aren't claiming to be the voice or moral absolutism and are not part of a extremely rich and powerful organization who's entire purpose is claim moral superiority to the entire world.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:23:16 GMT
It is noticed more because of the hypocrisy, the coverage and that the organization itself is deeply involved. It is also just more horrific, because these people are claiming to be the moral voice of humanity. Oh. Well. Hmm. In that case, I guess all the boys and girls who are raped by irreligious people should count their blessings. That is a straw man.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:25:39 GMT
You got a point there. However, you could make the very same argument in cases where perpetrators were the victims own parents, grandparents, etc. I don't see how those are even remotely similar. Parents aren't claiming to be the voice or moral absolutism and are not part of a extremely rich and powerful organization who's entire purpose is claim moral superiority to the entire world. Whether they are part of an extremely rich & powerful organization or not is a moot point. Parents are the moral authority for children. So when a parent sexually abuses a child, it breaks a sacred trust.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:28:53 GMT
I don't see how those are even remotely similar. Parents aren't claiming to be the voice or moral absolutism and are not part of a extremely rich and powerful organization who's entire purpose is claim moral superiority to the entire world. Whether they are part of an extremely rich & powerful organization or not is a moot point. Parents are the moral authority for children. So when a parent sexually abuses a child, it breaks a sacred trust. You are completely missing the point. I am saying why the religious based child-rape is more NOTICED and more problematic to humanity as a whole. It being more horrific is just my subjective reaction. The act in any case is equally horrific to the victim, but not necessarily to everyone else.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:32:16 GMT
Whether they are part of an extremely rich & powerful organization or not is a moot point. Parents are the moral authority for children. So when a parent sexually abuses a child, it breaks a sacred trust. You are completely missing the point. I am saying why the religious based child-rape is more NOTICED and more problematic to humanity as a whole. It being more horrific is just my subjective reaction. They are BOTH equally noticed & problematic to humanity.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:33:42 GMT
And yes, this gives ammunition to atheists.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:33:50 GMT
Whether they are part of an extremely rich & powerful organization or not is a moot point. Parents are the moral authority for children. So when a parent sexually abuses a child, it breaks a sacred trust. So now it's the parents' fault. Every one but the actual preacher-rapist is guilty. You continue the pattern, Clu. You are loyal to your church and forget God. Never said it was the parents' fault. I simply point out that in cases where the perpetrators of sex crimes are clergy or parents, they are BOTH THE WORST-CASE SCENARIOS.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 15, 2020 6:34:06 GMT
You are completely missing the point. I am saying why the religious based child-rape is more NOTICED and more problematic to humanity as a whole. It being more horrific is just my subjective reaction. They are BOTH equally noticed & problematic to humanity. Not in my opinion. They both have a Best Picture winner about them? I didn't think so.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:50:35 GMT
Never said it was the parents' fault. I simply point out that in cases where the perpetrators of sex crimes are clergy or parents, they are BOTH THE WORST-CASE SCENARIOS.
The thing is I'm not actually talking about any the church-rape ratio here. Or how much child abuse is happening outside of churches. I get that. As far as the number of fuck ups they waste church funds training to be priest, is probably no more than any other church. Nor is the subterfuge the church has gone to to hide it. Boy scouts master rape kids too. Sports coaches do it. Trump good friend Epstein did it and the court in South Florida gave him a sweetheart deal rather than lock him up forever. What you are not getting is how this church is handling the situation. Hell, even the Catholic church hasn't gone this far in asserting their right to literally mind-rape a 15 year old girl in room with filled with self-righteous old men who see her as nothing but a wanton jezebel piece of trash. And that's not all, they want to the US Supreme Court to give them approval to do all this claiming this is their civic right to use their faith as a means to abuse children. Look at this way Clu, these are Jehovah's Witnesses (ironic considering) and you don't have to defend them. Which is pretty ironic, considering the fact that JWs do not get involved with country's Governments, in any kind of way. I'm not defending them.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:03:58 GMT
Which is pretty ironic, considering the fact that JWs do not get involved with country's Governments, in any kind of way. I'm not defending them. Then don't try to make this out as something that happens in non-religious settings too. Because it does not. All I pointed out is that the types of worst sexual offenders are clergy & parents for exactly the same reasons!!!
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:10:04 GMT
All I pointed out is that the types of worst sexual offenders are clergy & parents for exactly the same reasons!!! And this is not the topic. Say something about what I've written above about a church's right to abuse a child...because that's what is happening here. And I'll bet a paycheck you will not address this part of the subject. Of course the JWs are way, way out of line to side against the victim!!!! The perp should be in prison!!!!
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:13:20 GMT
Of course the JWs are way, way out of line to side against the victim!!!! The perp should be in prison!!!! Now, should any church be let off the hook for child rape and abuse just because they are a church? Nope. The Catholic Church has been held accountable.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 7:18:31 GMT
Did you really just accuse me of sanctifying rape? WTF, Paul? Maybe where you and I differ is that I don't care if it's a priest, a politician, a stranger, or my best friend. I don't hold any of them less guilty than any of the others. Not unless you fully read what I wrote in the first post. But here's the issue: this church claiming they have a God-given right to mentally abuse a 15 year old girl because a church elder raped her. Rather than putting the elder on church trial, they decided to investigate not her assailant but her—for the crime of having sex outside of marriage.
In what situation would a non-religious person get away with this in federal court. You sure you want to equivocate this as not exclusive to religious people? Do you need to take a shower before you answer? It was a fucking rape. She 15, even if she gave some consent, it's still rape. And she is guilty one because she let herself get raped outside of marriage. Which in her particular church is a crime? When did churches in the United States of America start judging crimes outside of a courtroom? Do you think the supreme court should side with the church or the victim? It was the title of this thread that initially got my attention - by design, I presume. I know a lot of religious people, and I'd be shocked if any of them would disagree with you. But I don't think being raped under difference circumstances is somehow less horrifying and traumatic. If this is more of a judicial issue, then maybe you should be asking why the justice system is so messed up. By the way, thanks for not putting "fucked up" in the title. I know you wanted to.
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