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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 6:44:33 GMT
So now it's the parents' fault. Every one but the actual preacher-rapist is guilty. You continue the pattern, Clu. You are loyal to your church and forget God. Never said it was the parents' fault. I simply point out that in cases where the perpetrators of sex crimes are clergy or parents, they are BOTH THE WORST-CASE SCENARIOS.
The thing is I'm not actually talking about any the church-rape ratio here. Or how much child abuse is happening outside of churches. I get that. As far as the number of fuck ups they waste church funds training to be priest, is probably no more than any other church. Nor is the subterfuge the church has gone to to hide it. Boy scouts master rape kids too. Sports coaches do it. Trump good friend Epstein did it and the court in South Florida gave him a sweetheart deal rather than lock him up forever. What you are not getting is how this church is handling the situation. Hell, even the Catholic church hasn't gone this far in asserting their right to literally mind-rape a 15 year old girl in room with filled with self-righteous old men who see her as nothing but a wanton jezebel piece of trash. And that's not all, they want to the US Supreme Court to give them approval to do all this claiming this is their civic right to use their faith as a means to abuse children. Look at this way Clu, these are Jehovah's Witnesses (ironic considering) and you don't have to defend them.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 6:50:35 GMT
Never said it was the parents' fault. I simply point out that in cases where the perpetrators of sex crimes are clergy or parents, they are BOTH THE WORST-CASE SCENARIOS.
The thing is I'm not actually talking about any the church-rape ratio here. Or how much child abuse is happening outside of churches. I get that. As far as the number of fuck ups they waste church funds training to be priest, is probably no more than any other church. Nor is the subterfuge the church has gone to to hide it. Boy scouts master rape kids too. Sports coaches do it. Trump good friend Epstein did it and the court in South Florida gave him a sweetheart deal rather than lock him up forever. What you are not getting is how this church is handling the situation. Hell, even the Catholic church hasn't gone this far in asserting their right to literally mind-rape a 15 year old girl in room with filled with self-righteous old men who see her as nothing but a wanton jezebel piece of trash. And that's not all, they want to the US Supreme Court to give them approval to do all this claiming this is their civic right to use their faith as a means to abuse children. Look at this way Clu, these are Jehovah's Witnesses (ironic considering) and you don't have to defend them. Which is pretty ironic, considering the fact that JWs do not get involved with country's Governments, in any kind of way. I'm not defending them.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 6:57:41 GMT
The thing is I'm not actually talking about any the church-rape ratio here. Or how much child abuse is happening outside of churches. I get that. As far as the number of fuck ups they waste church funds training to be priest, is probably no more than any other church. Nor is the subterfuge the church has gone to to hide it. Boy scouts master rape kids too. Sports coaches do it. Trump good friend Epstein did it and the court in South Florida gave him a sweetheart deal rather than lock him up forever. What you are not getting is how this church is handling the situation. Hell, even the Catholic church hasn't gone this far in asserting their right to literally mind-rape a 15 year old girl in room with filled with self-righteous old men who see her as nothing but a wanton jezebel piece of trash. And that's not all, they want to the US Supreme Court to give them approval to do all this claiming this is their civic right to use their faith as a means to abuse children. Look at this way Clu, these are Jehovah's Witnesses (ironic considering) and you don't have to defend them. Which is pretty ironic, considering the fact that JWs do not get involved with country's Governments, in any kind of way. I'm not defending them. Then don't try to make this out as something that happens in non-religious settings too. Because it does not.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:03:58 GMT
Which is pretty ironic, considering the fact that JWs do not get involved with country's Governments, in any kind of way. I'm not defending them. Then don't try to make this out as something that happens in non-religious settings too. Because it does not. All I pointed out is that the types of worst sexual offenders are clergy & parents for exactly the same reasons!!!
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 7:06:28 GMT
Then don't try to make this out as something that happens in non-religious settings too. Because it does not. All I pointed out is that the types of worst sexual offenders are clergy & parents for exactly the same reasons!!! And this is not the topic. Say something about what I've written above about a church's right to abuse a child...because that's what is happening here. And I'll bet a paycheck you will not address this part of the subject.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:10:04 GMT
All I pointed out is that the types of worst sexual offenders are clergy & parents for exactly the same reasons!!! And this is not the topic. Say something about what I've written above about a church's right to abuse a child...because that's what is happening here. And I'll bet a paycheck you will not address this part of the subject. Of course the JWs are way, way out of line to side against the victim!!!! The perp should be in prison!!!!
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 7:12:16 GMT
And this is not the topic. Say something about what I've written above about a church's right to abuse a child...because that's what is happening here. And I'll bet a paycheck you will not address this part of the subject. Of course the JWs are way, way out of line to side against the victim!!!! The perp should be in prison!!!! Now, should any church be let off the hook for child rape and abuse just because they are a church?
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 7:13:20 GMT
Of course the JWs are way, way out of line to side against the victim!!!! The perp should be in prison!!!! Now, should any church be let off the hook for child rape and abuse just because they are a church? Nope. The Catholic Church has been held accountable.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 7:15:54 GMT
Now, should any church be let off the hook for child rape and abuse just because they are a church? Nope. The Catholic Church has been held accountable. See, that wasn't so hard. Good for you, Clu. You stood up.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 7:18:31 GMT
Did you really just accuse me of sanctifying rape? WTF, Paul? Maybe where you and I differ is that I don't care if it's a priest, a politician, a stranger, or my best friend. I don't hold any of them less guilty than any of the others. Not unless you fully read what I wrote in the first post. But here's the issue: this church claiming they have a God-given right to mentally abuse a 15 year old girl because a church elder raped her. Rather than putting the elder on church trial, they decided to investigate not her assailant but her—for the crime of having sex outside of marriage.
In what situation would a non-religious person get away with this in federal court. You sure you want to equivocate this as not exclusive to religious people? Do you need to take a shower before you answer? It was a fucking rape. She 15, even if she gave some consent, it's still rape. And she is guilty one because she let herself get raped outside of marriage. Which in her particular church is a crime? When did churches in the United States of America start judging crimes outside of a courtroom? Do you think the supreme court should side with the church or the victim? It was the title of this thread that initially got my attention - by design, I presume. I know a lot of religious people, and I'd be shocked if any of them would disagree with you. But I don't think being raped under difference circumstances is somehow less horrifying and traumatic. If this is more of a judicial issue, then maybe you should be asking why the justice system is so messed up. By the way, thanks for not putting "fucked up" in the title. I know you wanted to. 
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2020 7:19:51 GMT
Now, should any church be let off the hook for child rape and abuse just because they are a church? Nope. The Catholic Church has been held accountable. How is an entire church held accountable?
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Nov 15, 2020 8:06:04 GMT
Not unless you fully read what I wrote in the first post. But here's the issue: this church claiming they have a God-given right to mentally abuse a 15 year old girl because a church elder raped her. Rather than putting the elder on church trial, they decided to investigate not her assailant but her—for the crime of having sex outside of marriage.
In what situation would a non-religious person get away with this in federal court. You sure you want to equivocate this as not exclusive to religious people? Do you need to take a shower before you answer? It was a fucking rape. She 15, even if she gave some consent, it's still rape. And she is guilty one because she let herself get raped outside of marriage. Which in her particular church is a crime? When did churches in the United States of America start judging crimes outside of a courtroom? Do you think the supreme court should side with the church or the victim? It was the title of this thread that initially got my attention - by design, I presume. I know a lot of religious people, and I'd be shocked if any of them would disagree with you. But I don't think being raped under difference circumstances is somehow less horrifying and traumatic. If this is more of a judicial issue, then maybe you should be asking why the justice system is so messed up. By the way, thanks for not putting "fucked up" in the title. I know you wanted to. Yes. It takes a provocative title to get eyeballs. But that so many posters reacted in a kneejerk fashion, as I expected, and try to brush this off as something that is happening everywhere, everyone is guilty attitude, rather the the gist of the story, which I thought was evident, of how these so-called men of God are treating their female faithful and believe that not only are they acting in the name of God but in the name of the secular justice too. That is the fuck up, if they can get away from it. Look at the amount of abuse that was heaped onto that one child. 1. a trusted elder rapes her. 2. she goes to the church elders to report him. 3. they side with him and blame her. 4. they call her in before the board of elders and have a trial in which she is the criminal. 5. She must listen to the accusations and listen to herself being raped...in other words forced to relive the rape...as these old men gaze upon her. 6. She tries to sue and they make out like she is taking away their freedom of religion. 7. They never considered her life, physical and spiritual, to be worthy of their concern. The man comes first in their church. 8. and Christians wonder why more and more people are rejecting the people who control Christianity which blames everything but themselves for their decline. Fuck up too is that we see these serious stories of institutional child-abuse (which in the RCC employed a real, decades long conspiracy to cover up) and shrug it off, but let QAnon attached a salacious political angle, especially if its the secular Democrats named as the villain, and many religious folks go ape-shit happy for the story.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 15, 2020 11:02:50 GMT
Rape is rape and is not just of religious institutional concern. This girl suffered both physical and emotional abuse. The emotional abuse part does tend to come in extremes with these churches though, look at what some of them do to try and revert homosexuality in kids and all this abuse is in the name of this good Lord thing. Religions are a scourge upon humanity.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Nov 15, 2020 11:06:51 GMT
Name one single case of "child-rape" by a Catholic priest? There are plenty sunshine, many Catholic priests are and have been imprisoned for their indiscretions with children. Do you deny this?
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 15, 2020 11:14:35 GMT
A statistical anomaly also often called a statistical outlier.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 17:03:49 GMT
Nope. The Catholic Church has been held accountable. How is an entire church held accountable? The various ArchDioceses around the world, where abuse has been uncovered are being held accountable, & it has now gotten the Vatican involved in how to deal with such cases of sex-offending men in the priesthood, & the bishops that have covered up their crimes.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 15, 2020 21:01:38 GMT
Name one single case of "child-rape" by a Catholic priest? There are plenty sunshine, many Catholic priests are and have been imprisoned for their indiscretions with children. Do you deny this? The "organization" with the most child abuse is probably Satan worship. As you might have guessed, exact numbers are difficult to establish. Perhaps the solution to the problem in the Catholic Church would be to abandon requirements for celibacy. Has anyone ever thought of that?
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 21:34:51 GMT
There are plenty sunshine, many Catholic priests are and have been imprisoned for their indiscretions with children. Do you deny this? The "organization" with the most child abuse is probably Satan worship. As you might have guessed, exact numbers are difficult to establish.
Perhaps the solution to the problem in the Catholic Church would be to abandon requirements for celibacy. Has anyone ever thought of that? If vows of celibacy & chastity are the solution to sexual abuse, then how come there have been married men (many of which were themselves members of clergy in their particular religions) that have committed sex crimes?  
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 15, 2020 21:42:07 GMT
The "organization" with the most child abuse is probably Satan worship. As you might have guessed, exact numbers are difficult to establish.
Perhaps the solution to the problem in the Catholic Church would be to abandon requirements for celibacy. Has anyone ever thought of that? If vows of celibacy & chastity are the solution to sexual abuse, then how come there have been married men (many of which were themselves members of clergy in their particular religions) that have committed sex crimes? I have no numbers myself, but perhaps some people think the problem occurs more frequently with celibacy.
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Post by clusium on Nov 15, 2020 21:59:50 GMT
If vows of celibacy & chastity are the solution to sexual abuse, then how come there have been married men (many of which were themselves members of clergy in their particular religions) that have committed sex crimes? I have no numbers myself, but perhaps some people think the problem occurs more frequently with celibacy. It doesn't. Most men that go into the priesthood do not commit acts of rape. Besides that, Let's not forget that Catholic clergy are not the only clergy that demands celibacy and/or chastity of its clergy. Many (if not ALL) Buddhist denominations have their clergies take vows of celibacy too.
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