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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 17, 2020 14:39:50 GMT
Yet apparently not here. So what purpose do you serve? Time after time I am struck by the simplicity of your viewpoint. You seem to be aware that there was a flurry of complaints about "satanic" activity or at least your sources seem to be aware. How you dismiss them with a few somewhat questionable examples you cannot possibly approach close enough to judge? That's my methodology. It should be yours. I have already explained that LaFontaine researched far from a "few somewhat questionable examples" and so I have no idea why your advanced reading skills did not pick that up. Here's another authoritative conclusion, again based on a wide appraisal, this time from law enforcement: Kenneth Lanning published the definitive official FBI report on 'Satanic Crime' in 1992 (' Satanic, Occult, Ritualist Crime: A Law Enforcement Perspective' The National Center for the Analysis of Violet Crime at the FBI academy in Quantico, Virginia) which reviewed all then known cases and concluded that: "There are many children in the United States who, starting early in their lives, are severely psychologically, physically, and sexually traumatized by angry, sadistic parents or other adults. Such abuse, however, is not perpetrated only or primarily by satanists. The statistical odds are that such abusers are members of mainstream religions... After all the hype and hysteria is put aside, the realisation sets in that most satanic or Occult activity involves the commission of NO crimes and that which does, usually involves the commission of relatively minor crimes such as trespassing, vandalism , animal cruelty and petty thievery... Until hard evidence is obtained and corroborated, the public should not be frightened into believing that babies are being bred and eaten, that 50,000 missing children are being murdered in human sacrifices, or that satanists are taking over America's day care centers or institutions " www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/136592NCJRS.pdf QED. You seem to be making an argument from credulity for reasons which are more psychological, one suspects, than criminological. That's your prerogative. But unless you can substantiate the claim that the panic over Satanic Abuse has resulted from a wave of proof and thence successful prosecutions, moreover ones which have stood the test of time, then all we have as usual from you is just the usual sweeping opinion. And, as usual, you are welcome to it.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 17, 2020 20:38:50 GMT
Wild conjecture on your part, I showed evidence that no satanic abuse had been uncovered and the best you can do is say probably because you have made up a shadowy conspiracy? When God was handing out personalities, did you think he asked about haircuts and request thick and wavy? What you "showed" was that you are incompetent to discuss the topic. Did any of your links list even one case? No. They just listed the judgement calls of uncoordinated researchers who were too distant from any cases to read them properly. They did not list cases of Satanic abuse because, and wait for it, THERE WEREN'T ANY! Fucks sake man are you really this stupid???
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 17, 2020 21:50:27 GMT
What you "showed" was that you are incompetent to discuss the topic. Did any of your links list even one case? No. They just listed the judgement calls of uncoordinated researchers who were too distant from any cases to read them properly. They did not list cases of Satanic abuse because, and wait for it, THERE WEREN'T ANY! Fucks sake man are you really this stupid??? THERE WEREN'T ANY, or......THEY LIED!
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Post by gadreel on Nov 17, 2020 21:54:55 GMT
They did not list cases of Satanic abuse because, and wait for it, THERE WEREN'T ANY! Fucks sake man are you really this stupid??? THERE WEREN'T ANY, or......THEY LIED! Yes Erjen, for once you are correct, the people who made claims of satanic abuse lied. see even you can be right every now and then
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 17, 2020 21:58:35 GMT
THERE WEREN'T ANY, or......THEY LIED! Yes Erjen, for once you are correct, the people who made claims of satanic abuse lied. see even you can be right every now and then No, the ones who "found no evidence" lied, but you knew that already.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 17, 2020 22:08:54 GMT
Yes Erjen, for once you are correct, the people who made claims of satanic abuse lied. see even you can be right every now and then No, the ones who "found no evidence" lied, but you knew that already. Can you prove that, or is this just more of your anti-intellectual bunk?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 17, 2020 23:26:38 GMT
No, the ones who "found no evidence" lied, but you knew that already. Can you prove that, or is this just more of your anti-intellectual bunk? No more than I can prove God exists.
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Post by gadreel on Nov 17, 2020 23:32:02 GMT
Can you prove that, or is this just more of your anti-intellectual bunk? No more than I can prove God exists. Cool so it's just more of your anti-intellectual drivel.
You really are a sad sack aren't you.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 17, 2020 23:34:36 GMT
No more than I can prove God exists. Cool so it's just more of your anti-intellectual drivel.
You really are a sad sack aren't you.
I don't think of myself as a sad sack. If you want to think of me as a sad sack that's your choice.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 0:27:08 GMT
What you "showed" was that you are incompetent to discuss the topic. Did any of your links list even one case? No. They just listed the judgement calls of uncoordinated researchers who were too distant from any cases to read them properly. They did not list cases of Satanic abuse because, and wait for it, THERE WEREN'T ANY! Fucks sake man are you really this stupid??? ^^ Speaking of things you cannot make up ^^
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 1:57:36 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] < clips >
- "There are many children in the United States who, starting early in their lives, are severely psychologically, physically, and sexually traumatized by angry, sadistic parents or other adults. Such abuse, however, is not perpetrated only or primarily by satanists.
- The statistical odds are that such abusers are members of mainstream religions..
- You seem to be making an argument from credulity
- all we have as usual from you is just the usual sweeping opinion.
- What exactly is the difference between "angry, sadistic parents or other adults" and "satanists"? Where does one draw the line? Is there a satanist official member ring in cereal boxes? What is your point? "Don't worry, folks, it isn't satanists. It's just people who act like satanists." Where is your dictionary now?
- I'm certain through no fault of mainstream religions. Was anyone going to say it is? How so?
- You seem to be making an argument from stupidity.
- I suppose you might feel justified or self satisfied that you are serving some necessary purpose playing down the "satanic" aspect of the problem. I can't see the point of it though myself.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 18, 2020 2:53:19 GMT
What exactly is the difference between "angry, sadistic parents or other adults" and "satanists"? Where does one draw the line? This is exactly the question one might ask those who saw Satanic child abuse as widespread in a moral panic, but then failed utterly to follow through their claims when cases ever reached to court. However it might be noted that Satanism is usually associated with paraphernalia, together with a ritual structure and specific terminology, that mere angry parents lack. In fact many of the spurious claims made the most of such things, inaccurately and imaginatively served up, to define matters to suit preconceptions. I am sure, given your recent thread arguing in favour of Scotsmen, that you will be happy to argue that no true Satanist would be without them. I hope that helps. As I have shown, it is not I that is playing down matters, just those who took the time and trouble to investigate claims and outcomes carefully, including the two well-known studies I quoted. Of course feel free if you wish now to offer up examples of numerous successful prosecutions for SCA by way of demonstrating the constant moral peril we face. In the absence of this, the question ought to be why some are intent on still playing things up. And, inevitably, there will be an absence.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 17:15:49 GMT
What exactly is the difference between "angry, sadistic parents or other adults" and "satanists"? Where does one draw the line? This is exactly the question one might ask those who saw Satanic child abuse as widespread in a moral panic, but then failed utterly to follow through their claims when cases ever reached to court. However it might be noted that Satanism is usually associated with paraphernalia, together with a ritual structure and specific terminology, that mere angry parents lack. In fact many of the spurious claims made the most of such things, inaccurately and imaginatively served up, to define matters to suit preconceptions. I am sure, given your recent thread arguing in favour of Scotsmen, that you will be happy to argue that no true Satanist would be without them. I hope that helps. As I have shown, it is not I that is playing down matters, just those who took the time and trouble to investigate claims and outcomes carefully, including the two well-known studies I quoted. Of course feel free if you wish now to offer up examples of numerous successful prosecutions for SCA by way of demonstrating the constant moral peril we face. In the absence of this, the question ought to be why some are intent on still playing things up. And, inevitably, there will be an absence. On what experience do you base your assumption that satanism is widely recognizable by any paraphernalia? That is unless they cannot possibly be caught. Child abuse is a crime, satanism is not. Why do you ask me to substantiate satanism by court findings? The reason is that you think you know anything better than I do and believe you can help. As admirable as the effort is, I really have to ask you to please find something for which you have any talent.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 18, 2020 19:12:16 GMT
On what experience do you base your assumption that satanism is widely recognizable by any paraphernalia? On the testimonies of at least some of those who claimed their abusers were neccessarily satanic. In many of the more lurid cases the details appear to be carried over from movies rather than genuine experience, where the iconography is instantly familiar. But don't take my word for it. Here for instance is the the description of supposed satanic ritual from a more credulous - and ultimately quite amusing - source Satanic Cult Awareness, Hirst and Marsh(1993) in which child abuse is a major concern. It is, supposedly, "a training manual ... the result of compiling information from several years of occult investigations including volumes of written documentations from several investigators across the nation." It is also a report which purports to show the facts of satanism, still without any examples of successful convictions, naturally. See also www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/walmart-selling-satanic-paraphernalia where there appears no doubt. In other cases paraphernalia is what people make of it. In one case in Orkney the 'satanic black gown' confiscated by over-zealous investigators turned out to be something a teacher would wear in class. Er ... perhaps because we are talking about supposed satanic child abuse, rather than just satanism? See how it works? It is ironic that you find it easy to deny the existence of heart transplants, say, for which evidence can easily be found, while still supporting the idea of satanic child abuse - for which substantiation has been discovered lacking in almost every case that comes to court. Ah well. The absence of any substantiation for the opposing view on your part is just as predicted in my last message. But since you are now resorting to telling me what I think, and moreover appear to have no knowledge of even some standard authorities, all the while providing none of your own, I will leave it there. For everyone else, one last link, to that of a more recent assessment of the scandal: Satanic Abuse, False Memories, Weird Beliefs and Moral Panics (Waterhouse, 2014) which has found quite wide dissemination and reputability:
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 22:47:51 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] < clips >
- ... the testimonies of at least some of those ... In many of the more lurid cases ... so this is merely an example
of how one group conducts itself. - we are talking about supposed satanic child abuse, rather than just satanism? See how it works?
- It is ironic that you find it easy to deny the existence of heart transplants, say, for which evidence can easily be found,
- The absence of any substantiation for the opposing view'
- So not only can you not explain why it makes any difference whether it is satanists or just people acting like satanists, you really cannot tell the difference anyway. Can you not yet see how there are probably better ways to spend your time?
- 1) You haven't properly identified who are "actual" satanists. 2) The courts need not bother.
- 1) I have never denied the existence of heart transplants. 2) You have never provided any evidence for any.
- See "A"
Remember what I said about putting things in your own words? It might be best if you take that a step further and only discuss things you have seen yourself. You are not getting a very good picture of things just from reading articles about them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 0:01:42 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] < clips >
- ... the testimonies of at least some of those ... In many of the more lurid cases ... so this is merely an example
of how one group conducts itself. - we are talking about supposed satanic child abuse, rather than just satanism? See how it works?
- It is ironic that you find it easy to deny the existence of heart transplants, say, for which evidence can easily be found,
- The absence of any substantiation for the opposing view'
- So not only can you not explain why it makes any difference whether it is satanists or just people acting like satanists, you really cannot tell the difference anyway. Can you not yet see how there are probably better ways to spend your time?
- 1) You haven't properly identified who are "actual" satanists. 2) The courts need not bother.
So then; one last word to answer the usual non-sequiturs. It is not I who needs to distinguish between 'real' and 'pretend' satanists, since, duh, it is not I who claims for satanic abusers in the first place (indeed I made it clear that there might have been a few cases of nutters abusing children with satanic trappings, while the sad fact is that more children have likely been ill-treated by Christians through injurious 'exorcisms'). It for is the prosecuting authorities, who did indeed 'bother', often to the extent of ruining innocent people's lives by giving credence to false claims. The issue is, still, whether there have been proven examples of SCA brought before the courts ending in convictions, especially of a size and number reflecting the associated moral panic.
The answer as I have shown is ... NO - and you haven't evidenced otherwise, as usual. Which ultimately is all one needs to know. QED.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 8:40:33 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] - So not only can you not explain why it makes any difference whether it is satanists or just people acting like satanists, you really cannot tell the difference anyway. Can you not yet see how there are probably better ways to spend your time?
- 1) You haven't properly identified who are "actual" satanists. 2) The courts need not bother.
So then; one last word to answer the usual non-sequiturs. It is not I who needs to distinguish between 'real' and 'pretend' satanists, since, duh, it is not I who claims for satanic abusers in the first place (indeed I made it clear that there might have been a few cases of nutters abusing children with satanic trappings, while the sad fact is that more children have likely been ill-treated by Christians through injurious 'exorcisms'). It for is the prosecuting authorities, who did indeed 'bother', often to the extent of ruining innocent people's lives by giving credence to false claims. The issue is, still, whether there have been proven examples of SCA brought before the courts ending in convictions, especially of a size and number reflecting the associated moral panic.
The answer as I have shown is ... NO - and you haven't evidenced otherwise, as usual. Which ultimately is all one needs to know. QED. While you are indeed not following what is going on in the world, I am certain it is not my fault. I have explained that quite many Christians have more in common with atheists than any "other" religion with plentiful data from Pew Research surveys. You might recognize the expression, "two sides of the same bad coin." It also is likely true that a few of them have much in common with satanists. Although such things typically happen in poverty they do infect a few people with much monetary wealth. You are still asking me to "prove" something that is merely a matter of definitions. That is because you have aligned yourself with mentally retarded people. If you complain as usual that I shouldn't point that out, just notice that if you believe you needn't heed any warnings then that is probably how you got to be so stupid. Consider heeding a warning sometime. Sometimes they can help.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 22:29:28 GMT
While you are indeed not following what is going on in the world, I am certain it is not my fault. I have explained that quite many Christians have more in common with atheists than any "other" religion with plentiful data from Pew Research surveys. You might recognize the expression, "two sides of the same bad coin." It also is likely true that a few of them have much in common with satanists. Although such things typically happen in poverty they do infect a few people with much monetary wealth. You are still asking me to "prove" something that is merely a matter of definitions. That is because you have aligned yourself with mentally retarded people. If you complain as usual that I shouldn't point that out, just notice that if you believe you needn't heed any warnings then that is probably how you got to be so stupid. Consider heeding a warning sometime. Sometimes they can help. No one is arguing about the idea of Satanists, it’s that there’s no proof there is any widespread Satanism going on and certainly zero proof that Satan himself is involved. You make it sound like even Christians who don’t take Satan seriously enough are becoming de facto Satanists. Therefore, do you think one can “conjure the living Devil” like in Rosemary’s Baby? Yes or no. It doesn't matter whether Satan is "for real." "Satanists" can be just as evil either way. I don't see the point of trying to "define" satanism. So one group isn't "really" satanic because they used acrylics paints instead of the official pig's blood or whatever to write their symbols?
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 23:07:26 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Satan is "for real." "Satanists" can be just as evil either way. I don't see the point of trying to "define" satanism. So one group isn't "really" satanic because they used acrylics paints instead of the official pig's blood or whatever to write their symbols? The percentage of Satanically evil people among just plain evil people in spite of claiming to be Good Christians is like 99.99%. Quite frankly, you’re perpetuating evil just by supporting Trump knowing how evil the man behaves. Ill add that folks who knowing support Trump despite the evil he perpetuates are practicing a form of satanism because they are listen to him as if is the voice of God himself. That’s the Satanism, the one inside your heart, you need to defeat. Not some fantasy. It might not always be obvious, but there is a very big difference between "evil" and "stupid." I believe there is evil in the world however rarely. Stupidity is all over the place.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 23:19:06 GMT
It might not always be obvious, but there is a very big difference between "evil" and "stupid." I believe there is evil in the world however rarely. Stupidity is all over the place. Actually there is little difference between stupid and evil if the results are the same. But the results are not the same.
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