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Post by clusium on Nov 18, 2020 20:45:59 GMT
Link doesn't work after 3 tries. Works okay on my side.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 18, 2020 20:50:32 GMT
Link doesn't work after 3 tries. Works okay on my side. Working now. I see Benedict makes no mention of his threat to excommunicate bishops who didn't help in the cover up. This part of your article is apt: "This is an embarrassing letter. The idea that ecclesial abuse of children was a result of the 1960s, a supposed collapse of moral theology, and 'conciliarity' is an embarrassingly wrong explanation for the systemic abuse of children and its coverup," wrote Catholic theologian Brian Flanagan on Twitter.
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Post by clusium on Nov 18, 2020 20:53:22 GMT
Working now. I see Benedict makes no mention of his threat to excommunicate bishops who didn't help in the cover up. This part of your article is apt: "This is an embarrassing letter. The idea that ecclesial abuse of children was a result of the 1960s, a supposed collapse of moral theology, and 'conciliarity' is an embarrassingly wrong explanation for the systemic abuse of children and its coverup," wrote Catholic theologian Brian Flanagan on Twitter.
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Post by clusium on Nov 18, 2020 21:17:12 GMT
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Post by goz on Nov 18, 2020 22:14:07 GMT
I just don't understand it. The pedophile in general I mean. That is probably because I have no sexual urge towards children. It is a very interesting subject in psychology and there seems to be a variety of reasons for it. If everybody wasn't so fast to want to kill anybody for even admitting the urge, maybe a lot of these people could be helped before they hurt any children. The irony is priceless. Something wrong with the wiring in their brain and sexuality. So what exactly are you saying here? Are you doing that separation of 'brain' and 'soul' thing? You are saying that thoughts and impulses can be wired wrongly in the brain, right? I hope you are aware that in doing so, you are going against several of the Catholic church's mantras about original sin and free will.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 18, 2020 22:19:12 GMT
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 23:01:11 GMT
Who's to say that God doesn't love pedos? That would fit with his love of torture, murder, homophobia and young virgin girls. How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 18, 2020 23:05:04 GMT
Who's to say that God doesn't love pedos? That would fit with his love of torture, murder, homophobia and young virgin girls. How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things. I said God loves those things, not theists.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 23:07:28 GMT
How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things. I said God loves those things, not theists. If the shoe fits... When did any god speak to you?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 18, 2020 23:10:39 GMT
I said God loves those things, not theists. If the shoe fits... When did any god speak to you? I am just pointing to the character of the God that most people claim to worship.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 23:16:11 GMT
When did any god speak to you? I am just pointing to the character of the God that most people claim to worship. "Most" people? Where did you meet them?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 18, 2020 23:18:18 GMT
I am just pointing to the character of the God that most people claim to worship. "Most" people? Where did you meet them? The majority of the U.S claim to be Christians based on statistics. The Bible is the source of Christianity. I have read the Bible. Granted, most Christians don't bother to think about this stuff very much from what I can tell.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 18, 2020 23:21:56 GMT
"Most" people? Where did you meet them? The majority of the U.S claim to be Christians based on statistics. The Bible is the source of Christianity. I have read the Bible. Granted, most Christians don't bother to think about this stuff very much from what I can tell. Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the source of Christianity?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 18, 2020 23:27:21 GMT
The majority of the U.S claim to be Christians based on statistics. The Bible is the source of Christianity. I have read the Bible. Granted, most Christians don't bother to think about this stuff very much from what I can tell. Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the source of Christianity? Fine, you want to play games. The Bible is what Christians claim is the source of their knowledge about God. If not that, then I guess God sneaks in their rooms at night and whispers in their ears. Are you a Christian? If so, why do you believe that the Christian God exists? It is either the former or the latter and the latter will make you sound nuts.
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Post by clusium on Nov 18, 2020 23:27:44 GMT
Something wrong with the wiring in their brain and sexuality. So what exactly are you saying here? Are you doing that separation of 'brain' and 'soul' thing? You are saying that thoughts and impulses can be wired wrongly in the brain, right? I hope you are aware that in doing so, you are going against several of the Catholic church's mantras about original sin and free will. . They still have free will. They have the choice as to whether to act on their sexual impulses or not.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 8:08:56 GMT
Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the source of Christianity? Fine, you want to play games. The Bible is what Christians claim is the source of their knowledge about God. If not that, then I guess God sneaks in their rooms at night and whispers in their ears. Are you a Christian? If so, why do you believe that the Christian God exists? It is either the former or the latter and the latter will make you sound nuts. It has apparently not occurred to you that there are indeed other ways of knowing things than the ordinary senses even though you "read" the Bible and it does seem to be about those. Hang on, this gets very complicated. The cruelty you found in the Bible and have decided was ordered by the god of the Bible was actually a human idea. The god of the Bible taught his people tricks to avoid getting involved in it. It was a very cruel world and they were very tricky people. Did Jesus actually "die" on the cross or was he just in what we today would call a "coma"? You grew up in a far more civilized world than the ancient one and have assumed the world was always civilized except for that "crazy" god. You misread history. You blamed the god for the cruelty because it was religious organizations that informed you of it. If you read this thread you can better understand where I might stand on religion. Religion is no simple thing and I am no simple person. It is my own business where I stand on religion. You are probably clever enough to avoid getting involved with obviously simple, shallow people who have no idea above an elementary reading level. Please report on that thread about the definitions of a god if you have spare the time.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 12:09:46 GMT
Fine, you want to play games. The Bible is what Christians claim is the source of their knowledge about God. If not that, then I guess God sneaks in their rooms at night and whispers in their ears. Are you a Christian? If so, why do you believe that the Christian God exists? It is either the former or the latter and the latter will make you sound nuts. The cruelty you found in the Bible and have decided was ordered by the god of the Bible was actually a human idea. The god of the Bible taught his people tricks to avoid getting involved in it. But on several occasions at least He ordered it. e.g. Deut. 20 16-18: "in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded." If however by 'human idea' you just mean that, as it was an 'inspired' human who made the story up and so hence attributed these actions to the deity as part of a symbolic or metaphorical narrative, or just a good yarn, then I would agree with you. But this would seem to preclude a god to be 'teaching people tricks'.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 13:27:46 GMT
The cruelty you found in the Bible and have decided was ordered by the god of the Bible was actually a human idea. The god of the Bible taught his people tricks to avoid getting involved in it. But on several occasions at least He ordered it. e.g. Deut. 20 16-18: "in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded." If however by 'human idea' you just mean that, as it was an 'inspired' human who made the story up and so hence attributed these actions to the deity as part of a symbolic or metaphorical narrative, or just a good yarn, then I would agree with you. But this would seem to preclude a god to be 'teaching people tricks'. There are several things you are failing to consider. Some of their neighbors were extremely evil murderers and perverts of an unusually organized variety such that their destruction made more sense. It was a matter of survival. Infant sacrifice was even common in some of them and corroborated by the archaeological record. In dealing with more civilized opponents such as Egypt, the god of the Bible took slaughter out of the hands of his people, making a "judgement" upon Egypt he denied his people to make. The first five books of the Bible were not written by a prophet unless you count Moses who merely compiled the mostly oral traditions of the Hebrew people up to the time he became their leader and including some of his personal experiences toward the end. Do you know what I mean by "Bible Simon Says"? If you were half as clever as you are biased against religion these things would have occurred to you.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 13:42:43 GMT
But on several occasions at least He ordered it. e.g. Deut. 20 16-18: "in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded." If however by 'human idea' you just mean that, as it was an 'inspired' human who made the story up and so hence attributed these actions to the deity as part of a symbolic or metaphorical narrative, or just a good yarn, then I would agree with you. But this would seem to preclude a god to be 'teaching people tricks'. There are several things you are failing to consider. Some of their neighbors were extremely evil murderers and perverts of an unusually organized variety such that their destruction made more sense. It was a matter of survival. Infant sacrifice was even common in some of them and corroborated by the archaeological record. Here you seem to be justifying genocide at worst, mass killing at best (including that of children). Not a good look. In which case it seems you agree that God is, at least on occasions, quite happy with mass slaughter, either directly or indirectly which was my point. QED. When I am talking about whether a prophet wrote anything, then be sure and tell me this again.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 13:53:54 GMT
There are several things you are failing to consider. Some of their neighbors were extremely evil murderers and perverts of an unusually organized variety such that their destruction made more sense. It was a matter of survival. Infant sacrifice was even common in some of them and corroborated by the archaeological record. Here you seem to be justifying genocide at worst, mass killing at best (including that of children). Not a good look. In which case it seems you agree that God is, at least on occasions, quite happy with mass slaughter, either directly or indirectly which was my point. QED. When I am talking about whether a prophet wrote anything, then be sure and tell me this again. I will ask you once again to please stop. You are not any good at this. You are assuming the modern world and the ancient world have similar properties and therefore should have similar rules. That is because you are mentally retarded. Of course mass murder in the modern world makes no sense and is a very serious evil. However in the ancient world where infant slaughter was common and whole societies were very evil more drastic measures could well have made sense.
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