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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 13:57:32 GMT
Here you seem to be justifying genocide at worst, mass killing at best (including that of children). Not a good look. In which case it seems you agree that God is, at least on occasions, quite happy with mass slaughter, either directly or indirectly which was my point. QED. When I am talking about whether a prophet wrote anything, then be sure and tell me this again. I will ask you once again to please stop. You are not any good at this. You are assuming the modern world and the ancient world have similar properties and therefore should have similar rules. That is because you are mentally retarded. Of course mass murder in the modern world makes no sense and is a very serious evil. However in the ancient world where infant slaughter was common and whole societies were very evil more drastic measures could well have made sense. Thank you for your special pleading. But since you agree with my point that God on occasion supposedly originated mass killing and genocide, and as you have already started with the gratuitous offensiveness, a sure sign that you are out of ideas, that will suffice for now.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 14:02:28 GMT
I will ask you once again to please stop. You are not any good at this. You are assuming the modern world and the ancient world have similar properties and therefore should have similar rules. That is because you are mentally retarded. Of course mass murder in the modern world makes no sense and is a very serious evil. However in the ancient world where infant slaughter was common and whole societies were very evil more drastic measures could well have made sense. Thank you for your special pleading. But since you agree with my point that God on occasion originated mass killing and genocide, and you have already started with the gratuitous offensiveness, a sure sign that you are out of ideas, that will suffice for now. Maybe people would stop insulting you if you shut up or got out of the way. Have you considered that yet? Maybe that's your solution. Do you still think the modern world and the ancient world should have the same rules or have the drugs perhaps worn off?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 14:31:18 GMT
Thank you for your special pleading. But since you agree with my point that God on occasion originated mass killing and genocide, and you have already started with the gratuitous offensiveness, a sure sign that you are out of ideas, that will suffice for now. Maybe people would stop insulting you if you shut up or got out of the way. Have you considered that yet? Maybe that's your solution. Do you still think the modern world and the ancient world should have the same rules or have the drugs perhaps worn off? To which the answer is that it is largely irrelevant what I think. Better to ask: how do people act? Many today still insist on relying upon rules, yes, from the ancient world, to guide them in this one and to judge others - through say, the moral precepts of the Bible (which one notes, rather ironically condemns killing). As for God, who we both agreed ordered mass killing, any human rules are plain immaterial. If we accept that He is unchanging, then He presumably feels just the same about ordering genocide as He did back in the day (at least He has promised not to drown the world again!) especially as you have often assured us that God is not to be seen as being anthropomorphic, possessing such human traits as mercy, or compassion etc. Have fun with the rest of the thread, now.
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Post by clusium on Nov 19, 2020 15:24:05 GMT
Who's to say that God doesn't love pedos? That would fit with his love of torture, murder, homophobia and young virgin girls. How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things. Yeah, currently here Toronto, there is a young man on trial for murdering 10 people & injuring 16 others, after he mowed down pedestrians with a van, 2 1/2 years ago. In a video-taped interview with the police, he said he was an atheist, & that his parents never raised him in any religion. I remember reading that Paul Bernardo was an agnostic.
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Post by goz on Nov 19, 2020 19:58:21 GMT
How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things. Yeah, currently here Toronto, there is a young man on trial for murdering 10 people & injuring 16 others, after he mowed down pedestrians with a van, 2 1/2 years ago. In a video-taped interview with the police, he said he was an atheist, & that his parents never raised him in any religion.I remember reading that Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. WTF has that got to do with ANYTHING? Could you be any more stupid?
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Post by clusium on Nov 19, 2020 20:59:29 GMT
Yeah, currently here Toronto, there is a young man on trial for murdering 10 people & injuring 16 others, after he mowed down pedestrians with a van, 2 1/2 years ago. In a video-taped interview with the police, he said he was an atheist, & that his parents never raised him in any religion.I remember reading that Paul Bernardo was an agnostic. WTF has that got to do with ANYTHING? Could you be any more stupid? Could you? I was pointing out something that Arlon had posted.
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Post by goz on Nov 19, 2020 21:19:02 GMT
WTF has that got to do with ANYTHING? Could you be any more stupid? Could you? I was pointing out something that Arlon had posted. What does religion, its type and or lack of it have to do with who is a murderer? Oh wait...we have only to look at the Spanish Inquisition in the Ctholic Church, Muslim terrorism and inter faith wars. Individual atheists seem to have much chances or perhaps even less to be a murderer since they don't subscribe to these other barbaritie, that seem endemic in religions.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 22:20:21 GMT
Maybe people would stop insulting you if you shut up or got out of the way. Have you considered that yet? Maybe that's your solution. Do you still think the modern world and the ancient world should have the same rules or have the drugs perhaps worn off? To which the answer is that it is largely irrelevant what I think. Better to ask: how do people act? Many today still insist on relying upon rules, yes, from the ancient world to guide them in this one and to judge others - through say, the moral precepts of the Bible (which one notes, rather ironically condemns killing). As for God, who we both agreed ordered mass killing, any human rules are plain immaterial. If we accept that He is unchanging, then he presumably feels just the same about ordering genocide as He did back in the day (at least He has promised not to drown the world again!) especially as you have often assured us that God is not to be seen as being anthropomorphic, with such human traits as mercy, or compassion etc. Have fun with the rest of the thread. Here we can all see your attempts to simplify everything down to your level of understanding. You might remember I mentioned that is a problem of yours before. It isn't that god changed, it is that the world changed. If there were whole societies of people as evil as some whole societies in the ancient world with father, mother, brother, and sister all murderers and rapists beyond redemption then it might be necessary to drop a big bomb somewhere carefully. Thankfully there are no such whole societies in the modern world, just small groups that are typically separate from most civilians. Can you please stop? Quit making up rules. You read somewhere the god is unchanging and you think that means even when conditions do change? That's not a rule. You don't make any rules, so please give up trying.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 22:23:36 GMT
To which the answer is that it is largely irrelevant what I think. Better to ask: how do people act? Many today still insist on relying upon rules, yes, from the ancient world to guide them in this one and to judge others - through say, the moral precepts of the Bible (which one notes, rather ironically condemns killing). As for God, who we both agreed ordered mass killing, any human rules are plain immaterial. If we accept that He is unchanging, then he presumably feels just the same about ordering genocide as He did back in the day (at least He has promised not to drown the world again!) especially as you have often assured us that God is not to be seen as being anthropomorphic, with such human traits as mercy, or compassion etc. Have fun with the rest of the thread. Here we can all see your attempts to simplify everything down to your level of understanding. You might remember I mentioned that is a problem of yours before. It isn't that god changed, it is that the world changed. If there were whole societies of people as evil as some whole societies in the ancient world with father, mother, brother, and sister all murderers and rapists beyond redemption then it might be necessary to drop a big bomb somewhere carefully. Thankfully there are no such whole societies in the modern world, just small groups that are typically separate from most civilians. Can you please stop? Quit making up rules. You read somewhere the god is unchanging and you think that means even when conditions do change? That's not a rule. You don't make any rules, so please give up trying. "For I the Lord do not change" Mal 3:6. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Heb 13:8. God is not ... that he should change his mind." Num 23:19 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1:17 No sense of fickleness there. Perhaps it is you making up rules to suit a weak case. And, presumably children too, since they all had to go. What's the definition of hyperbole? It goes well with all that special pleading. But anyway, see ya.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 22:44:11 GMT
Here we can all see your attempts to simplify everything down to your level of understanding. You might remember I mentioned that is a problem of yours before. It isn't that god changed, it is that the world changed. If there were whole societies of people as evil as some whole societies in the ancient world with father, mother, brother, and sister all murderers and rapists beyond redemption then it might be necessary to drop a big bomb somewhere carefully. Thankfully there are no such whole societies in the modern world, just small groups that are typically separate from most civilians. Can you please stop? Quit making up rules. You read somewhere the god is unchanging and you think that means even when conditions do change? That's not a rule. You don't make any rules, so please give up trying. "For I the Lord do not change" Mal 3:6. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Heb 13:8. God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind." Num 23:19 See ya. Are you disallowing a god to respond differently to different conditions because you think that would be a "change" in the god? No, it is not a change in the god. It is a change in conditions. I even pointed out how if conditions in the ancient world returned the god would treat it exactly the same as in the ancient world. (As far as I know, I do not generally attempt to dictate what a god must do. You especially should not.) If you put your coat on when it's cold and take it off when it's hot have you changed? No, the weather changed. You're still doing what you always do when it's cold and always do when when it's hot. I hope you recover some sense soon. There is no change in the god. That is a very serious problem you have there.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 19, 2020 22:56:22 GMT
"For I the Lord do not change" Mal 3:6. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Heb 13:8. God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind." Num 23:19 See ya. Are you disallowing a god to respond differently to different conditions because you think that would be a "change" in the god? No, it is not a change in the god. It is a change in conditions. I even pointed out how if conditions in the ancient world returned the god would treat it exactly the same as in the ancient world. (As far as I know, I do not generally attempt to dictate what a god must do. ** You especially should not.) If you put your coat on when it's cold and take it off when it's hot have you changed? No, the weather changed. You're still doing what you always do when it's cold and always do when when it's hot. I hope you recover some sense soon. There is no change in the god. That is a very serious problem you have there. Alas Arlon, morality is not like putting a coat off and on. ** edit: LOL
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 19, 2020 23:00:32 GMT
Are you disallowing a god to respond differently to different conditions because you think that would be a "change" in the god? No, it is not a change in the god. It is a change in conditions. I even pointed out how if conditions in the ancient world returned the god would treat it exactly the same as in the ancient world. (As far as I know, I do not generally attempt to dictate what a god must do. You especially should not.) If you put your coat on when it's cold and take it off when it's hot have you changed? No, the weather changed. You're still doing what you always do when it's cold and always do when when it's hot. I hope you recover some sense soon. There is no change in the god. That is a very serious problem you have there. Alas Arlon, morality is not like putting a coat off and on. And there is no cure for stupidity apparently. Yet anyway.
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Post by clusium on Nov 19, 2020 23:32:52 GMT
Could you? I was pointing out something that Arlon had posted. What does religion, its type and or lack of it have to do with who is a murderer? Oh wait...we have only to look at the Spanish Inquisition in the Ctholic Church, Muslim terrorism and inter faith wars. Individual atheists seem to have much chances or perhaps even less to be a murderer since they don't subscribe to these other barbaritie, that seem endemic in religions. Yes, & to quote our fellow RFS poster, Arlon10: " How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things." And if you think that only individual atheists murder, then I suggest you read up on the history of the Soviet Union, & the currently officially atheistic China.
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Post by Winston Wolfe on Nov 19, 2020 23:48:24 GMT
All quiet on the herald Erjen front...
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Post by goz on Nov 20, 2020 2:26:58 GMT
What does religion, its type and or lack of it have to do with who is a murderer? Oh wait...we have only to look at the Spanish Inquisition in the Ctholic Church, Muslim terrorism and inter faith wars. Individual atheists seem to have much chances or perhaps even less to be a murderer since they don't subscribe to these other barbaritie, that seem endemic in religions. Yes, & to quote our fellow RFS poster, Arlon10 : " How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things." And if you think that only individual atheists murder, then I suggest you read up on the history of the Soviet Union, & the currently officially atheistic China. I thought you might come up with this superficially stupid argument that theists bring up about 'etheist regimes' as though they aactually ARE a thing like a religion... and they are not. Ateism doesn't work like that. China and Russia are no more representative or 'atheism' than the USA is of Christiany ( speartion of church and state Constitutionally anyone), actually proably less. Religion just doesn;t function in their social system....and once again, Russian Orthodxy actyually has made a big comeback in modern Russia, so how can it be an 'atheist regime'?
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Post by clusium on Nov 20, 2020 5:31:37 GMT
Yes, & to quote our fellow RFS poster, Arlon10 : " How certain are you there are no atheist pedos? Murderers? Whatnot? I noticed some atheists say mentally retarded things." And if you think that only individual atheists murder, then I suggest you read up on the history of the Soviet Union, & the currently officially atheistic China. I thought you might come up with this superficially stupid argument that theists bring up about 'etheist regimes' as though they aactually ARE a thing like a religion... and they are not. Ateism doesn't work like that. China and Russia are no more representative or 'atheism' than the USA is of Christiany ( speartion of church and state Constitutionally anyone), actually proably less. Religion just doesn;t function in their social system....and once again, Russian Orthodxy actyually has made a big comeback in modern Russia, so how can it be an 'atheist regime'? That's because the Soviet Union no longer exists.
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Post by goz on Nov 20, 2020 7:23:27 GMT
I thought you might come up with this superficially stupid argument that theists bring up about 'etheist regimes' as though they aactually ARE a thing like a religion... and they are not. Ateism doesn't work like that. China and Russia are no more representative or 'atheism' than the USA is of Christiany ( speartion of church and state Constitutionally anyone), actually proably less. Religion just doesn;t function in their social system....and once again, Russian Orthodxy actyually has made a big comeback in modern Russia, so how can it be an 'atheist regime'? That's because the Soviet Union no longer exists. I specifically said 'Russia'. Even the Soviet Union was not a specifically Atheist state.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 20, 2020 11:32:01 GMT
That's because the Soviet Union no longer exists. I specifically said 'Russia'. Even the Soviet Union was not a specifically Atheist state.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Nov 20, 2020 12:19:18 GMT
I specifically said 'Russia'. Even the Soviet Union was not a specifically Atheist state.
Technically France was first, when during the French Revolution there was a brief period of state atheism, and an attempt to re-purpose churches for the Cult of Reason, the deist Cult of the Supreme Being and such curious monstrosities. Fortunately, they died out with the more radical elements of the revolution - and because frankly, they were a bit silly. It is a capital mistake that many atheists sadly make, to assume that one is rational simply because one is an atheist. Even if one is an atheist for rational reasons, this does not make one rational. Similarly, one can be a Christian for irrational reasons but still not be an irrational person. There's more to a person's reason than one's approach to this very specific topic.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 20, 2020 13:16:45 GMT
It is a capital mistake that many atheists sadly make, to assume that one is rational simply because one is an atheist. Even if one is an atheist for rational reasons, this does not make one rational. Similarly, one can be a Christian for irrational reasons but still not be an irrational person. There's more to a person's reason than one's approach to this very specific topic. Just as it is a mistake thinking that because one is rational one must be a believer in the deliberate supernatural.
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