ThreeSticks
Sophomore
@threesticks
Posts: 282
Likes: 248
|
Post by ThreeSticks on Nov 19, 2020 1:20:15 GMT
Sosa, Clemens, Bonds My write in vote - McGwire So for you and the other two people (I'll assume that they are the same group): Why would you vote in Clemens and Bonds (and more ridiculously Sosa and McGwire) and not Manny Ramirez? Ramirez was a superior player to both Sosa and McGwire. If the people who voted for Clemens and Bonds did so exclusive to everyone else because they believe that not only should their not be Harrold Baines and Scooter Rizzuto in the Hall of Fame, but no Jim Thome or Ryne Sandberg either - - only THE greatest players ever - - I could buy it. But otherwise Ramirez should be in there. If you're overlooking steroids, his numbers should absolutely have him in. To be fair, there is some thing that separates Ramirez from the others. Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa were never suspended for PED use. Ramirez was the 1st player to be suspended twice for PED use.
|
|
|
Post by screamingtreefrogs on Nov 19, 2020 1:20:26 GMT
Sosa, Clemens, Bonds My write in vote - McGwire So for you and the other two people (I'll assume that they are the same group): Why would you vote in Clemens and Bonds (and more ridiculously Sosa and McGwire) and not Manny Ramirez? Ramirez was a superior player to both Sosa and McGwire. If the people who voted for Clemens and Bonds did so exclusive to everyone else because they believe that not only should their not be Harrold Baines and Scooter Rizzuto in the Hall of Fame, but no Jim Thome or Ryne Sandberg either - - only THE greatest players ever - - I could buy it. But otherwise Ramirez should be in there. If you're overlooking steroids, his numbers should absolutely have him in. I overlooked Manny
When voting in these polls - I typically seek out 3 players Bonds, Sosa and McGwire because the Home Run Extravaganza years were some of the funnest times for me watching baseball - and ignore the rest ....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2020 3:38:23 GMT
This years ballot is hot garbage. I would either send in a blank ballot or vote for Jeff Kent and Omar Vizquel if I was feeling generous.
Bunch of players that either cheated or are in the Hall of Very Good. However this is a post Harold Baines world so fuck it all.
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Nov 19, 2020 22:28:20 GMT
Bonds Clemens Schilling Wagner Sheffield Manny Also voting for the following, even though they won't get in and probably don't deserve to be: Torii Hunter because he was awesome to watch, loved playing the game and had a better career than I think most people realize. Andruw Jones. Even though he's a smirking assclown, he is the best centerfielder I've ever seen play. He made every single play look so easy. I love watching Andruw Jones catching the ball. He is probably the best fielding outfielder I watched, with Griffey, Jr. close 2nd. If you ask me in the early 00s about his HOF credential without looking at his stat, I would say no doubt. Then when look at the stat, I realized that his BA is too low for a HOFer. Player gets in with fielding, but not for outfielders unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by nutsberryfarm π on Nov 19, 2020 22:31:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Nov 19, 2020 22:32:44 GMT
I'll be surprised if they and the likes of LaTroy Hawkins and Dan Haren will make it past the 1st year. I didn't even notice Dan Haren until you brought him up
Who the hell is LaTroy Hawkins?
Hall of Fame? What planet am I on?
The one main reason I know of LaTroy Hawkins is his brief stay with the Yankees. He wore the sacred # of 21, which was wore by the just retired beloved Paul O'Neill. Hawkins had no idea why the fans booed him until he realized and changed his number. It didn't help when he stinks in his few months with the Yankees.
|
|
|
Post by klawrencio79 on Nov 19, 2020 22:33:52 GMT
Bonds Clemens Schilling Wagner Sheffield Manny Also voting for the following, even though they won't get in and probably don't deserve to be: Torii Hunter because he was awesome to watch, loved playing the game and had a better career than I think most people realize. Andruw Jones. Even though he's a smirking assclown, he is the best centerfielder I've ever seen play. He made every single play look so easy. I love watching Andruw Jones catching the ball. He is probably the best fielding outfielder I watched, with Griffey, Jr. close 2nd. If you ask me in the early 00s about his HOF credential without looking at his stat, I would say no doubt. Then when look at the stat, I realized that his BA is too low for a HOFer. Player gets in with fielding, but not for outfielders unfortunately. Agreed, not just his BA though. He really fell off a cliff after 2006. Before that, he was well on his way and his 9-year peak from 1998-2006 was superb, averaging an .860 OPS with 37 HR 104 RBI and 99 R during that stretch, all the while playing other-worldly CF. If he had kept it up and got over the 500-HR plateau, he would probably be a lock.
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Nov 19, 2020 22:35:01 GMT
With 15 voters so far, no one gets in (11.25+ votes needed) With a relatively smaller sample size and that some don't vote that many players, I would lower the % to account for voting instability to get a better sense, maybe to 65% or so.
|
|
|
Post by ε°Ίγγγ«γ’γ€ε·ε‘ε on Nov 19, 2020 22:39:18 GMT
Bonds Clemens Helton Jones Kent Ramirez Schilling Sheffield Sosa Vizquel
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Nov 19, 2020 22:42:21 GMT
Sosa, Clemens, Bonds My write in vote - McGwire So for you and the other two people (I'll assume that they are the same group): Why would you vote in Clemens and Bonds (and more ridiculously Sosa and McGwire) and not Manny Ramirez? Ramirez was a superior player to both Sosa and McGwire. If the people who voted for Clemens and Bonds did so exclusive to everyone else because they believe that not only should their not be Harrold Baines and Scooter Rizzuto in the Hall of Fame, but no Jim Thome or Ryne Sandberg either - - only THE greatest players ever - - I could buy it. But otherwise Ramirez should be in there. If you're overlooking steroids, his numbers should absolutely have him in. Sosa & McGwire don't belong to the HOF. They are one dimension player like Dave Kingman. McGwire already had power before his numbers got juiced up from 1996 on, but his had a terrible BA. Sosa is purely a product of PED.
Clemens, Bonds, and Manny were already amazing players even before their physique got inflated. I consider them HOF, PED or not. Manny may have screwed himself in his final year with the Dodgers when he got suspended. Not to point out that he had a terrible attitude. I don't think he will be voted in.
|
|
|
Post by millar70 on Nov 19, 2020 23:30:28 GMT
Well, he's not exactly James Taylor or anything, but I've heard much worse. Hey, Zito came through big-time for the 2012 Giants, so I'll always love the guy. He's a cool dude.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 0:33:04 GMT
I love watching Andruw Jones catching the ball. He is probably the best fielding outfielder I watched, with Griffey, Jr. close 2nd. If you ask me in the early 00s about his HOF credential without looking at his stat, I would say no doubt. Then when look at the stat, I realized that his BA is too low for a HOFer. Player gets in with fielding, but not for outfielders unfortunately. Agreed, not just his BA though. He really fell off a cliff after 2006. Before that, he was well on his way and his 9-year peak from 1998-2006 was superb, averaging an .860 OPS with 37 HR 104 RBI and 99 R during that stretch, all the while playing other-worldly CF. If he had kept it up and got over the 500-HR plateau, he would probably be a lock. I loved Andruw. He was so much fun to watch play CF. Anything hit out there you felt like he'd catch it and make it look easy. Once he left ATL his career REALLY dropped off. I personally think his 50 HR season ruined him because after that he was home run or nothing. Basically today's MLB. He also got really fat and out of shape so his defense wasn't there anymore. Seemed like he just got lazy for the last like 6 years of his career so that doesn't scream HOF to me sadly.
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Nov 20, 2020 0:46:09 GMT
Agreed, not just his BA though. He really fell off a cliff after 2006. Before that, he was well on his way and his 9-year peak from 1998-2006 was superb, averaging an .860 OPS with 37 HR 104 RBI and 99 R during that stretch, all the while playing other-worldly CF. If he had kept it up and got over the 500-HR plateau, he would probably be a lock. I loved Andruw. He was so much fun to watch play CF. Anything hit out there you felt like he'd catch it and make it look easy. Once he left ATL his career REALLY dropped off. I personally think his 50 HR season ruined him because after that he was home run or nothing. Basically today's MLB. He also got really fat and out of shape so his defense wasn't there anymore. Seemed like he just got lazy for the last like 6 years of his career so that doesn't scream HOF to me sadly. The year he was with the Dodgers was as bad as I've seen anybody ever play - - and he played another FOUR years after that! Willie Mays with the Mets may not have stained his legacy, but when I think of Andruw Jones, I think of that Dodgers year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 1:57:15 GMT
I loved Andruw. He was so much fun to watch play CF. Anything hit out there you felt like he'd catch it and make it look easy. Once he left ATL his career REALLY dropped off. I personally think his 50 HR season ruined him because after that he was home run or nothing. Basically today's MLB. He also got really fat and out of shape so his defense wasn't there anymore. Seemed like he just got lazy for the last like 6 years of his career so that doesn't scream HOF to me sadly. The year he was with the Dodgers was as bad as I've seen anybody ever play - - and he played another FOUR years after that! Willie Mays with the Mets may not have stained his legacy, but when I think of Andruw Jones, I think of that Dodgers year. Those last 5 years really tarnish what was a sure fire HOF career. He was 31 when with the Dodgers and was just instantly washed/got lazy 3 years removed from his 51 HR season. It was all downhill from there.. After that he was an AL DH/Bench bat for his final 4 years. What a fall from grace for an elite defensive CF. He just didn't have the longevity into his 30's to get in the HOF. I won't fault people for voting for him because his defense and prime were that damn good but he just didn't have the longevity for me. He needed 3 of those last 5 years playing at a good level to have made it for me.
|
|
|
Post by nutsberryfarm π on Nov 20, 2020 3:29:38 GMT
Scott Rolen anyone?
|
|
SportsFan19
Junior Member
@sportsfan19
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 2,247
|
Post by SportsFan19 on Nov 20, 2020 15:51:12 GMT
I voted for him, largely for defense. I don't exphim to get in.
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Jan 26, 2021 19:13:05 GMT
New selection to be announced this evening. www.mlb.com/news/2021-hall-of-fame-questions1. Will Schilling get over the line? 2. Where does Omar Vizquel stand? 3. Who will gain the most momentum? 4. What about Bonds and Clemens? 5. How will the first-timers fare?
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 19:21:32 GMT
In November, I marked a blank ballot. Upon reflection, I'll throw a vote for Todd Helton. Fuck the thin air of Denver. So no Colorado Rockies hitter will get into the HOF? And others have had home field advantages. Catfish Hunter and Dennis Eckersley pitched in Oakland, with more square feet of foul territory than several Latin American countries. The Phillies played in a shoe box called Baker Bowl for decades. There are bigger Little League parks than Baker bowl. How many extra hits was the Green Monster worth to Williams, Yaz, Boggs? Yankee Stadium should have been called "The House built for Ruth" instead of the other way around.
|
|
|
Post by Rufus-T on Jan 26, 2021 19:46:14 GMT
In November, I marked a blank ballot. Upon reflection, I'll throw a vote for Todd Helton. Fuck the thin air of Denver. So no Colorado Rockies hitter will get into the HOF? And others have had home field advantages. Catfish Hunter and Dennis Eckersley pitched in Oakland, with more square feet of foul territory than several Latin American countries. The Phillies played in a shoe box called Baker Bowl for decades. There are bigger Little League parks than Baker bowl. How many extra hits was the Green Monster worth to Williams, Yaz, Boggs? Yankee Stadium should have been called "The House built for Ruth" instead of the other way around. Todd Helton would have hit well even if he play else where. He is just a great hitter that Coors Field or not doesn't make a difference. Look at DJ Lemahieu.
|
|
|
Post by klawrencio79 on Jan 26, 2021 23:09:17 GMT
In November, I marked a blank ballot. Upon reflection, I'll throw a vote for Todd Helton. Fuck the thin air of Denver. So no Colorado Rockies hitter will get into the HOF? And others have had home field advantages. Catfish Hunter and Dennis Eckersley pitched in Oakland, with more square feet of foul territory than several Latin American countries. The Phillies played in a shoe box called Baker Bowl for decades. There are bigger Little League parks than Baker bowl. How many extra hits was the Green Monster worth to Williams, Yaz, Boggs? Yankee Stadium should have been called "The House built for Ruth" instead of the other way around. It's true, Helton was still really good too on the road, although obviously not as good as he was at Coors. His career at home is .345/.441/.607 (1.048) with 227 HRs in 1,141 games, vs. .287/.386./469 (.855) with 142 HRs in 1,106 road games. But I agree with you, it's bullshit that Rockies players are summarily dismissed while other teams get ignored for how the parks favor their players. Helton would need Charlie Blackmonesque home/road splits in order for the argument against to be valid, and it's just not. Blackmon, by the way, is Herculean at home, but he's basically Mike Jacobs on the road. You mentioned some great examples; a few weeks ago when we were talking about the Giants, I mentioned this same thing for Bumgarner who has been brilliant at home in a pitcher's park during his career and good (to very good) on the road. I'm not saying Bumgarner sucks, but nobody ever applies the same lens in viewing guys like Bumgarner as they do with guys like Helton when it comes to evaluating their career.
|
|