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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 4:56:00 GMT
Holding any sort of prejudice against people of any race is a racist behaviour. Let's say I believe that white people are racists in general then I am a racist. Some people believe that to be a racist you need to be in a group that has dominance in the society but I do not believe in that. As per me anyone can be a racist based on his views on others. Prejudice is behavior? It can very easily lead to negative behavior towards whoever you are prejudice against, therefor it qualifies.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 5:00:44 GMT
How is it racism if they are members of the same race? The term sort of loses it's meaning when you start talking about the English and the Irish as being "racist" towards eachother. You seem to be talking about prejudice and nationalism and that isn't the same thing. A lot of the time the racists considered themselves to be a different and 'superior' race though. German nationalists often considered Slavic peoples to be a lower breed of humanity, notwithstanding the obvious physical similarities between them. The Irish were often characterised as "white negroes" in the 19th century. Nowadays, we tend to view white people as belonging to a single racial group, but that was not always the case. I suppose one could argue that our understanding of 'race' has narrowed to encompass only people with blatantly different physical appearances. I was actually going to address that, but you responded before I could edit. I see your point and you could take it all the way back to the first humans who split off from the main groups and formeed their own groups and then as time went on they started to become more different in both way of thinking and appearance. That isn't what most people tend to refer to as racism though and that isn't generally what I mean when I talk about racism, but it should be reflected on more closely imo. As I pointed out in my OP, technically we are all part of the same race if you go back far enough. Many people find this fact offensive for reasons based on ignorance, but the history of human evolution and the branching into different races is fascinating to read about. I was reading the theories of how dark skin became white skin at some point as groups went North.
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Post by llanwydd on Nov 27, 2020 5:18:58 GMT
It can very easily lead to negative behavior towards whoever you are prejudice against, therefor it qualifies. What qualifies as what?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 5:21:27 GMT
It can very easily lead to negative behavior towards whoever you are prejudice against, therefor it qualifies. What qualifies as what? Prejudice can lead to racist behavior is what I am saying.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Nov 27, 2020 5:21:32 GMT
A lot of the time the racists considered themselves to be a different and 'superior' race though. German nationalists often considered Slavic peoples to be a lower breed of humanity, notwithstanding the obvious physical similarities between them. The Irish were often characterised as "white negroes" in the 19th century. Nowadays, we tend to view white people as belonging to a single racial group, but that was not always the case. I suppose one could argue that our understanding of 'race' has narrowed to encompass only people with blatantly different physical appearances. I was actually going to address that, but you responded before I could edit. I see your point and you could take it all the way back to the first humans who split off from the main groups and formeed their own groups and then as time went on they started to become more different in both way of thinking and appearance. That isn't what most people tend to refer to as racism though and that isn't generally what I mean when I talk about racism, but it should be reflected on more closely imo. As I pointed out in my OP, technically we are all part of the same race if you go back far enough. Many people find this fact offensive for reasons based on ignorance, but the history of human evolution and the branching into different races is fascinating to read about. I was reading the theories of how dark skin became white skin at some point as groups went North. I think a lot of our conception of what constitutes racism nowadays stems from our awareness of the form of racism most widely spoken about today - racism against black people. There's so much talk about this in the media and so many movies and novels deal with this topic that a lot of people come to believe that skin colour is the sole determining factor. I mean, I'm a white Irish guy who lives in Ireland. We have a relatively small black population, but our high school literature classes included a heavy focus on novels that dealt with racial discrimination against black people in America or other places. "White" ethnic identity only came about in the last few centuries and arose largely in the Americas as a result of the formation of multi-ethnic, multi-coloured societies in those territories in which the darker-skinned people were consigned to an eternally subordinate caste. The fact that many of these 'black' people had white ancestry (due to the fact that owning somebody completely means you can have your merry way with them without fear of facing any consequences) illustrates the arbitrariness of the racial division.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 5:31:18 GMT
I was actually going to address that, but you responded before I could edit. I see your point and you could take it all the way back to the first humans who split off from the main groups and formeed their own groups and then as time went on they started to become more different in both way of thinking and appearance. That isn't what most people tend to refer to as racism though and that isn't generally what I mean when I talk about racism, but it should be reflected on more closely imo. As I pointed out in my OP, technically we are all part of the same race if you go back far enough. Many people find this fact offensive for reasons based on ignorance, but the history of human evolution and the branching into different races is fascinating to read about. I was reading the theories of how dark skin became white skin at some point as groups went North. I think a lot of our conception of what constitutes racism nowadays stems from our awareness of the form of racism most widely spoken about today - racism against black people. There's so much talk about this in the media and so many movies and novels deal with this topic that a lot of people come to believe that skin colour is the sole determining factor. I mean, I'm a white Irish guy who lives in Ireland. We have a relatively small black population, but our high school literature classes included a heavy focus on novels that dealt with racial discrimination against black people in America or other places. "White" ethnic identity only came about in the last few centuries and arose largely in the Americas as a result of the formation of multi-ethnic, multi-coloured societies in those territories in which the darker-skinned people were consigned to an eternally subordinate caste. White ethnic identity seemed to form in many parts of Europe thousands of years ago. There were Greeks in the days before Alexander the Great that were white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. Maybe this was after Alexander the Great, I don't recall at the moment. Or do you mean we didn't start classifying it until after the Europeans came to the Americas in the 1400's. I think in order to confront it we need to talk about both the past sense and the modern sense of the word, but you will start losing many people when you start going back as far as you are in "casual" conversation about the topic.
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Post by llanwydd on Nov 27, 2020 5:33:36 GMT
Prejudice can lead to racist behavior is what I am saying. OK, I get it. By the way, I think this thread, more than any other in the history of this site, has plainly proven that the word racism has no definition. My own observation is that the word is used less as a description than it is used to intimidate. As such, I think it needs to be retired from our language.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Nov 27, 2020 5:37:57 GMT
I think a lot of our conception of what constitutes racism nowadays stems from our awareness of the form of racism most widely spoken about today - racism against black people. There's so much talk about this in the media and so many movies and novels deal with this topic that a lot of people come to believe that skin colour is the sole determining factor. I mean, I'm a white Irish guy who lives in Ireland. We have a relatively small black population, but our high school literature classes included a heavy focus on novels that dealt with racial discrimination against black people in America or other places. "White" ethnic identity only came about in the last few centuries and arose largely in the Americas as a result of the formation of multi-ethnic, multi-coloured societies in those territories in which the darker-skinned people were consigned to an eternally subordinate caste. White ethnic identity seemed to form in many parts of Europe thousands of years ago. There were Greeks in the days before Alexander the Great that were white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. Maybe this was after Alexander the Great, I don't recall at the moment. Or do you mean we didn't start classifying it until after the Europeans came to the Americas in the 1400's.I think in order to confront it we need to talk about both the past sense and the modern sense of the word, but you will start losing many people when you start going back as far as you are in "casual" conversation about the topic. ^This. I appreciate your final point, but I do believe that educating the general population about the origins of racism - how it came about and how it evolved over time - is an important element in confronting and deconstructing it. Those who came before us got some things right and some things very, very wrong. We don't need to remain prisoners of their ignorance and prejudice. We can be better if we choose to be.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 5:39:57 GMT
White ethnic identity seemed to form in many parts of Europe thousands of years ago. There were Greeks in the days before Alexander the Great that were white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. Maybe this was after Alexander the Great, I don't recall at the moment. Or do you mean we didn't start classifying it until after the Europeans came to the Americas in the 1400's.I think in order to confront it we need to talk about both the past sense and the modern sense of the word, but you will start losing many people when you start going back as far as you are in "casual" conversation about the topic. ^This. I appreciate your final point, but I do believe that educating the general population about the origins of racism - how it came about and how it evolved over time - is an important element in confronting and deconstructing it. Many of those who came before us got some things right and some things very, very wrong. We don't need to remain prisoners of their ignorance and prejudice. We can be better if we choose to be. Oh, I agree. I just think it need to be done in a certain careful way and it is the sort of thing that might anger some people.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Nov 27, 2020 5:43:38 GMT
^This. I appreciate your final point, but I do believe that educating the general population about the origins of racism - how it came about and how it evolved over time - is an important element in confronting and deconstructing it. Many of those who came before us got some things right and some things very, very wrong. We don't need to remain prisoners of their ignorance and prejudice. We can be better if we choose to be. Oh, I agree. I just think it need to be done in a certain careful way and it is the sort of thing that might anger some people. Agreed. It's a complex and emotive topic.
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robh9
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Post by robh9 on Nov 27, 2020 5:57:15 GMT
A different view, as displayed by the following conversation..........
Jim: "Hey, Bill, are you a racist?"
Bill: "Yes, I am."
Jim: "WHAT?? You freely admit it?! Doesn't that create some problems for you??"
Bill: "Not really. But, then, I might not be using that word as many others often do."
Jim: "What are you talking about?? Everyone knows what it MEANS!"
Bill: "I'm not so sure of that! You see, I have familiarity with only one race: the human race."
Jim: "Yeah, but what about differences in eye slant, cheek structure, skin color, genetic predispositions, lip formation, hair curliness, language usage...?"
Bill: "Well, I've never taken any courses in anthropology or sociology, but it seems to me that all those traits are just convenient terms used by people in those fields to distinguish among members of various ethnicities and tribes."
Jim: "Well...perhaps. But then why do you call yourself a racist??"
Bill: "Simple: if it ever came down to a battle between members of the human race and a race of, say, Venusians, or Martians, or Andromedans, I believe that, without hesitation, I'd come down on the side of the human race...THAT makes me a racist!"
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Nov 27, 2020 12:28:08 GMT
The “leftist” (for lack of a better word) definition is that racism is based on discrimination AND POWER - meaning that a powerful group can be racist against a less powerful one, but not vice-versa. I partially agree with it when talking about institutions. For example, I don’t think BET (Black Entertainment Television) is racist, but a White Entertainment Television network would be.
The more radical SJW types think that applies at an individual level as well - that a black person can NEVER be racist against whites, since whites are the most powerful group. I strongly disagree with that. A black person who hates whites is racist, no question about that.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 12:40:32 GMT
Just another ist/ism to get thrown into the melting pot and a card that often gets played for political and selective reasonings. I prefer the term "bigoted" or "prejudiced" myself, as this covers a wider spectrum. We are all mixed races in our ancestry somewhere along the line and culture, tradition and sociology is really at the forefront of any persecution that can rear its head towards a people. Customs, beliefs and even "behaviors" can be attributed to certain cultures and perhaps need to be derided and questioned, (religion being one and its own worst enemy). Other times prejudicial attitudes are just born out of ignorance and hatred due to lack of understanding, or for no other reason but to feel superior over others. There is a lot of truth there.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 12:42:07 GMT
The “leftist” (for lack of a better word) definition is that racism is based on discrimination AND POWER - meaning that a powerful group can be racist against a less powerful one, but not vice-versa. I partially agree with it when talking about institutions. For example, I don’t think BET (Black Entertainment Television) is racist, but a White Entertainment Television network would be. The more radical SJW types think that applies at an individual level as well - that a black person can NEVER be racist against whites, since whites are the most powerful group. I strongly disagree with that. A black person who hates whites is racist, no question about that. I mostly agree with this. Fear and ignorance are 2 of the main causes of evil behavior in the world imo. Unfortunately the former is just a part of who we are and is here to stay, but the latter can easily be overcome and we can learn how to better respond to our own fears.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 13:39:45 GMT
Just another ist/ism to get thrown into the melting pot and a card that often gets played for political and selective reasonings. I prefer the term "bigoted" or "prejudiced" myself, as this covers a wider spectrum. We are all mixed races in our ancestry somewhere along the line and culture, tradition and sociology is really at the forefront of any persecution that can rear its head towards a people. Customs, beliefs and even "behaviors" can be attributed to certain cultures and perhaps need to be derided and questioned, (religion being one and its own worst enemy). Other times prejudicial attitudes are just born out of ignorance and hatred due to lack of understanding, or for no other reason but to feel superior over others. Speaking of religion. One of the most effective manipulating and fear mongering tools to ever exist. Get them while there young, give them bad information, re-enforce that bad information over and over again and then convince them that any information that contradicts these things is evil lies and then threaten them with eternal torture. Indoctrination is next level evil and the scary thing is that the people doing this believe these things for those exact same reasons and believe they are doing good. It is a cycle of terror and it MUST be overcome. There is my short rant on that subject.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 13:48:00 GMT
The “leftist” (for lack of a better word) definition is that racism is based on discrimination AND POWER - meaning that a powerful group can be racist against a less powerful one, but not vice-versa. I partially agree with it when talking about institutions. For example, I don’t think BET (Black Entertainment Television) is racist, but a White Entertainment Television network would be. The more radical SJW types think that applies at an individual level as well - that a black person can NEVER be racist against whites, since whites are the most powerful group. I strongly disagree with that. A black person who hates whites is racist, no question about that. Black people can certainly be racists, but for one race to have dominance over the competing race, racism needs power. Black people really have not had the power to be as successful at racism as white people. That this power dynamic is changing terrifies a lot of white people. It scares even me and I'll tell you why. Human beings are drawn towards revenge and I worry (probably irrationally) that the equality people seek is actually disguised revenge and that they want to put whites in the position that they are/were in. I have to keep reminding myself that this is an unwarranted fear and not to believe a lot of what the media says. It is also hard when you have lived in a sort of bubble most of your life that you feel lied to when you hear the truth and this can cause extreme and dangerous cynicism, distrust, anger and hatred towards everything and everyone. It all goes back to fear again. The ending of the movie White Dog touches on this.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 14:11:55 GMT
Accusations of racism in others mostly comes from the mind of a racist. By that logic... I'll let you figure out everything that is wrong with that statement you just made.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 27, 2020 14:20:08 GMT
It scares even me and I'll tell you why. Human beings are drawn towards revenge and I worry (probably irrationally) that the equality people seek is actually disguised revenge and that they want to put whites in the position that they are/were in. I have to keep reminding myself that this is an unwarranted fear and not to believe a lot of what the media says. It is also hard when you have lived in a sort of bubble most of your life that you feel lied to when you hear the truth and this can cause extreme and dangerous cynicism, distrust, anger and hatred towards everything and everyone. It all goes back to fear again. It scares even me and I'll tell you why. Human beings are drawn towards revenge and I worry (probably irrationally) that the equality people seek is actually disguised revenge and that they want to put whites in the position that they are/were in. You’ve honestly articulated this common human fear well. It’s not limited to Americans nor White People. I would address the “irrational” fear being expressed within current White racism by asking how much actual revenge has happened from black people toward whites? Most of it is what Jep likes to post about: the SJW, PC crowd who shame or demand someone lose a job, but that’s not really coming from the African American community-at-large. Just how revengeful toward whites was Barack Obama? Of course to hear the right media, he put the White Man in chains. However, you don’t have much to fear from this Democratic mainstream. I wish there was someway to convey to both white and black people just how much white Americans are themselves victims of our horrid slave and apartheid past. Because look how much this continuous struggle between to human races has warped our modern society. I think this discussion might get into areas that I am not prepared to discuss in a public forum.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Nov 27, 2020 20:13:26 GMT
I use the definitions in the dictionary for all words. Just sayin'. There are multiple definitions for words in the dictionary. Words have subtle changes in usage as time goes on and then the dictionary has to catch up. Well, i aint gonna argue with you. Since you probably have like twice the mental capacity that i do. Why do i say that? Most ppl do.
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Post by llanwydd on Nov 27, 2020 22:29:10 GMT
Racism at base is the belief that one race, based on physical traits, is by nature and/or spirit superior to another. Hmm. Webster? Oxford English? Funk and Wagnalls?
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