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Post by mikef6 on Nov 27, 2020 19:42:50 GMT
This is how delusional wing-nut preacher, evangelical activist, and former Colorado state legislator Gordon Klingenschmitt described some big changes coming to the military under the incoming presidency of Joe Biden.
According to Klingenschmitt, female solders and students will be “forced to share common showers and rooms with cross-dressing men or boys with male anatomy, within hours of Biden’s inauguration.” Within hours, mind.
He goes on, “Christian troops who object to sharing co-ed showers and bunks with opposite gender anatomy will be vilified as ‘discriminators’ and punished, demoted, discharged or court-martialed. Mark my words. The devil wants an atheist army for the Antichrist, soon.”
Where do we sign up? I remember those co-ed showers in "Starship Troopers." Looked good to me.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 27, 2020 20:08:25 GMT
This is how delusional wing-nut preacher, evangelical activist, and former Colorado state legislator Gordon Klingenschmitt described some big changes coming to the military under the incoming presidency of Joe Biden. According to Klingenschmitt, female solders and students will be “forced to share common showers and rooms with cross-dressing men or boys with male anatomy, within hours of Biden’s inauguration.” Within hours, mind. He goes on, “Christian troops who object to sharing co-ed showers and bunks with opposite gender anatomy will be vilified as ‘discriminators’ and punished, demoted, discharged or court-martialed. Mark my words. The devil wants an atheist army for the Antichrist, soon.”Where do we sign up? I remember those co-ed showers in "Starship Troopers." Looked good to me. Where do these delusional people come from and how do they avoid being sent to insane asylums? These religious wing-nuts just can't seem to wait for the "End Times" and sending sinners to Hell. I just don't get the attraction for this kind of belief system. Live in the here-and-now, it is the only life that we KNOW exists. Make this world better, instead of waiting for a better life-after-death.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 27, 2020 22:01:50 GMT
Where do these delusional people come from and how do they avoid being sent to insane asylums? These religious wing-nuts just can't seem to wait for the "End Times" and sending sinners to Hell. I just don't get the attraction for this kind of belief system. Live in the here-and-now, it is the only life that we KNOW exists. Make this world better, instead of waiting for a better life-after-death. They are caught up in a horror movie where they are the heroes and in the final scene they must defeat the monsters. There is a reason why zombie stories became popular again in the 21st century. I think you might be onto something, there. Since I have never even seen a zombie movie in my entire lifetime, it must be why I can't wrap my head around all this.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 27, 2020 22:22:05 GMT
I think you might be onto something, there. Since I have never even seen a zombie movie in my entire lifetime, it must be why I can't wrap my head around all this. It’s the zombie and similar killer alien themed movies. It’s the misunderstood, persecuted hero like John Rambo: just let him do what he needs to save the world and then it will see how great and good and right he was all along. I'm not a fan of Rambo movies or alien movies either... well, I have to make an exception for "Men in Black".
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 27, 2020 22:41:43 GMT
I'm not a fan of Rambo movies or alien movies either... well, I have to make an exception for "Men in Black". That you’re not a big fan of these dystopian movies is probably also why you’re a social liberal. Bingo!
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 6:27:45 GMT
I actually do have issues with the shower stuff and demoting people if objecting (if this is in fact true), but calling this an atheist Antichrist army is obviously insanity. It's all bullshit. This moral panic stuff is nothing new. These folks get all outraged by some outlandish things, like the Army being over-run with transgendered people, but get totally offended if you say straight men sexually harass women. Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit.
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gw
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Post by gw on Nov 28, 2020 6:39:03 GMT
It's all bullshit. This moral panic stuff is nothing new. These folks get all outraged by some outlandish things, like the Army being over-run with transgendered people, but get totally offended if you say straight men sexually harass women. Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. I normally am very at odds with Prager U but one person from there explained it rather well and I'll try to paraphrase it as well as I can : It's not a scientific idea as much as an existential one. I'm not sure if 'existential' is the word that they used but there is a moral argument in favor of transgenderism but it's much harder to defend with a neuroscientific argument than an appeal to one's judgement to decide who they are for themselves.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 6:43:46 GMT
Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. The issue itself should not cause any great alarm as far as active military personnel because it's not like there will be thousands pouring in. As far as the "movement," this is the 21st century and since there are means now to accommodate an adult who wants a sex change, or whatever its called now, they should be able to get one. It's not a matter of me trusting them because I know lots of folks who have all their junk in place and are still rotten, devious assholes who I don't trust either. That isn't what I am talking about. Any adult person can do whatever they want to their body.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 6:49:45 GMT
Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. I normally am very at odds with Prager U but one person from there explained it rather well and I'll try to paraphrase it as well as I can : It's not a scientific idea as much as an existential one. I'm not sure if 'existential' is the word that they used but there is a moral argument in favor of transgenderism but it's much harder to defend with a neuroscientific argument than an appeal to one's judgement to decide who they are for themselves. I am aware of all that. What makes me angry is how it seems to be being handled regarding young teenagers and kids who claim to be transgender and hearing stuff about parents having to worry about having their children taken away from them for not indulging their possible confusion. When it comes to bathroom issues it should be up to the biological females on whether they feel safe or not. If anybody can just say they are transgender than a man can just dress up like a female and go into the women's bathroom or shower etc.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 28, 2020 6:52:20 GMT
It's all bullshit. This moral panic stuff is nothing new. These folks get all outraged by some outlandish things, like the Army being over-run with transgendered people, but get totally offended if you say straight men sexually harass women. Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. I am in 100% in support of transgender people. I want their recognition and hope people see them as any other person in society. But their biggest challenge comes from a section of LGBT people themselves. I have seen some getting too much hate. Incidentally, my favourite person on this site is a transgender. A few I have known have all been nice and good to me. The irrational fear of some is sad.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:01:17 GMT
Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. I am in 100% in support of transgender people. I want their recognition and hope people see them as any other person in society. But their biggest challenge comes from a section of LGBT people themselves. I have seen some getting too much hate. Incidentally, my favourite person on this site is a transgender. A few I have known have all been nice and good to me. The irrational fear of some is sad. I support them too, but this issue is more complicated imo. I have nothing against trans people serving in the military.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:07:49 GMT
Well that I agree with, but this whole transgender thing makes me uncomfortable. There is a lot of confusion even between psychologists when it comes to this issue. I have a distrust of the movement and perhaps irrationally so. I am trying hard, but this might be my brain's limit. I am in 100% in support of transgender people. I want their recognition and hope people see them as any other person in society. But their biggest challenge comes from a section of LGBT people themselves. I have seen some getting too much hate. Incidentally, my favourite person on this site is a transgender. A few I have known have all been nice and good to me. The irrational fear of some is sad. At this point we might as well just make every shower, sport and bathroom all inclusive. I would have no problem with that, but I have a feeling that most people would. Any other way doesn't add up to me. I have also read that many trans teenagers see binary people as evil and as their enemy and that is also worrisome. It goes to their state of mind.
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gw
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Post by gw on Nov 28, 2020 7:15:12 GMT
I normally am very at odds with Prager U but one person from there explained it rather well and I'll try to paraphrase it as well as I can : It's not a scientific idea as much as an existential one. I'm not sure if 'existential' is the word that they used but there is a moral argument in favor of transgenderism but it's much harder to defend with a neuroscientific argument than an appeal to one's judgement to decide who they are for themselves. I am aware of all that. What makes me angry is how it seems to be being handled regarding young teenagers and kids who claim to be transgender and hearing stuff about parents having to worry about having their children taken away from them for not indulging their possible confusion. When it comes to bathroom issues it should be up to the biological females on whether they feel safe or not. If anybody can just say they are transgender than a man can just dress up like a female and go into the women's bathroom or shower etc. That's an interesting point that women who might not feel safe might have the last word. But what if the transgender person is used to going into their preferred restroom, having done so for years and feels uncomfortable going into the other one? While there is the fear of a person with male genitalia interacting with a woman against their will, the truth is that a cisgender man can attack a man in a men's restroom or a cisgender woman attack a woman in a women's restroom, or a particularly strong transman could assault a cisgender man in a men's restroom. You get the picture. In spite of all that, nobody objects that a particularly strong person uses the restroom at the same time as somebody physically weaker, you see what I mean? Edit- I see how you've made the case for unisex restrooms which pretty much negates everything I've said.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 28, 2020 7:16:13 GMT
I am in 100% in support of transgender people. I want their recognition and hope people see them as any other person in society. But their biggest challenge comes from a section of LGBT people themselves. I have seen some getting too much hate. Incidentally, my favourite person on this site is a transgender. A few I have known have all been nice and good to me. The irrational fear of some is sad. At this point we might as well just make every shower, sport and bathroom all inclusive. I would have no problem with that, but I have a feeling that most people would. Any other way doesn't add up to me. In university where I completed my masters in midlands UK, almost all washroom/toilet in the newly built building was unisex. After a time people get totally used to it. I think it may feel odd initially to some, but after a time people will get used to such things. I felt very shy about getting my haircut from a female hair-cutter but once I did, it never felt any awkward. Although because the haircut was not so good I never used her service again.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:21:01 GMT
I am aware of all that. What makes me angry is how it seems to be being handled regarding young teenagers and kids who claim to be transgender and hearing stuff about parents having to worry about having their children taken away from them for not indulging their possible confusion. When it comes to bathroom issues it should be up to the biological females on whether they feel safe or not. If anybody can just say they are transgender than a man can just dress up like a female and go into the women's bathroom or shower etc. That's an interesting point that women who might not feel safe might have the last word. But what if the transgender person is used to going into their preferred restroom, having done so for years and feels uncomfortable going into the other one? While there is the fear of a person with male genitalia interacting with a woman against their will, the truth is that a cisgender man can attack a man in a men's restroom or a cisgender woman attack a woman in a women's restroom, or a particularly strong transman could assault a cisgender man in a men's restroom. You get the picture. In spite of all that, nobody objects that a particularly strong person uses the restroom at the same time as somebody physically weaker, you see what I mean? I am talking about men who can now pretend just to use the women's shower and bathroom. That can't be done with the normal way things are. Do I think this is likely? Not very, but it is cause for some concern imo. I am not talking about attacks, I am talking about creepsters who just want to watch women undress and naked and if they can just say they are trans then it would be very easy. So basically I think the rule should be that only someone with full surgery should be able to take a shower with women. As a man I don't care who uses the men's bathroom.
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gw
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Post by gw on Nov 28, 2020 7:28:33 GMT
That's an interesting point that women who might not feel safe might have the last word. But what if the transgender person is used to going into their preferred restroom, having done so for years and feels uncomfortable going into the other one? While there is the fear of a person with male genitalia interacting with a woman against their will, the truth is that a cisgender man can attack a man in a men's restroom or a cisgender woman attack a woman in a women's restroom, or a particularly strong transman could assault a cisgender man in a men's restroom. You get the picture. In spite of all that, nobody objects that a particularly strong person uses the restroom at the same time as somebody physically weaker, you see what I mean? I am talking about men who can now pretend just to use the women's shower and bathroom. That can't be done with the normal way things are. Do I think this is likely? Not very, but it is cause for some concern imo. I am not talking about attacks, I am talking about creepsters who just want to watch women undress and naked and if they can just say they are trans then it would be very easy. So basically I think the rule should be that only someone with full surgery should be able to take a shower with women. As a man I don't care who uses the men's bathroom. You make a good case for disallowing people with male genitalia from using the women's restroom to prevent oglers but what if a strong woman goes into the men's restroom, especially one with urinals? You may be underestimating what a strong woman could do to a man. If you're going to use the *not likely but just in case* argument shouldn't you consider that possibility as well?
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:29:18 GMT
At this point we might as well just make every shower, sport and bathroom all inclusive. I would have no problem with that, but I have a feeling that most people would. Any other way doesn't add up to me. In university where I completed my masters in midlands UK, almost all washroom/toilet in the newly built building was unisex. After a time people get totally used to it. I think it may feel odd initially to some, but after a time people will get used to such things. I felt very shy about getting my haircut from a female hair-cutter but once I did, it never felt any awkward. Although because the haircut was not so good I never used her service again. Yes, it will take time and trans people need to also understand why this is a cause of massive confusion for binary people. It goes both ways. It sounds like a mental disorder to me, but apparently it isn't. I just don't understand how it isn't even after reading about it. It even seems split between professionals on whether it is a mental disorder or not. The difference regarding homosexuality once upon a time is that they don't require things that will possibly change who they are with surgery and then feel suicidal down the line when they realize it was something else. My main issue with the subject has to do with children under the age of 16. I think this all needs to be handled with extreme caution. Trans people must understand why this is very hard for most binary people to accept. It goes against everything most people understand in many cases.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:31:24 GMT
I am talking about men who can now pretend just to use the women's shower and bathroom. That can't be done with the normal way things are. Do I think this is likely? Not very, but it is cause for some concern imo. I am not talking about attacks, I am talking about creepsters who just want to watch women undress and naked and if they can just say they are trans then it would be very easy. So basically I think the rule should be that only someone with full surgery should be able to take a shower with women. As a man I don't care who uses the men's bathroom. You make a good case for disallowing people with male genitalia from using the women's restroom to prevent oglers but what if a strong woman goes into the men's restroom, especially one with urinals? You may be underestimating what a strong woman could do to a man. If you're going to use the *not likely but just in case* argument shouldn't you consider that possibility as well? I said, I am not talking about attacks. But fair enough. This is an issue that they can deal with.
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gw
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Post by gw on Nov 28, 2020 7:38:34 GMT
You make a good case for disallowing people with male genitalia from using the women's restroom to prevent oglers but what if a strong woman goes into the men's restroom, especially one with urinals? You may be underestimating what a strong woman could do to a man. If you're going to use the *not likely but just in case* argument shouldn't you consider that possibility as well? I said, I am not talking about attacks. But fair enough. This is an issue that they can deal with. My bad. It's late at night here. Women can ogle a man and if they're strong then they can get away with it, especially if it's just one or two men. That's what I should have said. Women's restrooms have the privacy of stalls, though it's a different story if there's showers. I think that there's a better case for using regular restrooms than showers for that reason.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 28, 2020 7:51:10 GMT
I said, I am not talking about attacks. But fair enough. This is an issue that they can deal with. My bad. It's late at night here. Women can ogle a man and if they're strong then they can get away with it, especially if it's just one or two men. That's what I should have said. Women's restrooms have the privacy of stalls, though it's a different story if there's showers. I think that there's a better case for using regular restrooms than showers for that reason. Me personally, anyone can use the bathroom I'm in if they want. I hope all of this works out in a way that will be satisfactory for the majority and in a way where everyone will feels safe and un-threatened. I don't see that happening anytime soon though. I am basically just an observer, but I sympathize with both sides on certain issues. I don't sympathize with anyone who wants to remove the basic rights of transgender adults though.
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