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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jan 20, 2021 20:30:30 GMT
People may think that Mike Schmidt was the biggest douche 3rd Baseman in Phils history - they'd be wrong - that award goes to Scott Rolen And Alec Bohm is going to surpass them both as the greatest Phillies 3rd Baseman of All-Time  |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 20, 2021 20:37:36 GMT
Could be. Remember the Top 100 Baseball Moments with the end of A league of Their Own ending at #5.
It certainly could be. Check out #5
Scott Rolen
The argument
51 players with a Wins Above Replacement above 70. All but four are in the HOF
Barry Bonds Pete Rose Rafael Palmeiro Scott Rolen
Really
In what universe is Scott Rolen a hall of famer? Today we got rid of one issue in the world, can we put Scott Rolen to bed? Bunch of hooey. Sabrmetrics, defense and some people said nice things about him, Ted Williams, Larry Bowa, Jonny Gomes. Funny, I don't remember his defense being that great. He was no Brooks Robinson, Graig Nettles or even an Adrian Beltre. In 1998, Rolen hit .290 with 31 HR's, 110 RBI's, 170 hits and a Gold Glove. And finished 20th in the MVP voting. Okay the Phils were mediocre in '98. And okay, 1998 was the McGwire/Sosa season. But Rolen finished below Jeromy Burnitz in the MVP voting!
Does Rolen belong on the list, sure. Above Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, Manny Ramirez, and many others, fuck no
EDIT: A lot of the comments are along the lines of "He didn't seem like a HOFer to me when I was watching him". True that. You can't make this an argument. I truly thought Steve Garvey and Don Mattingly were certain HOFers when they played. They aren't. I kind of put Rolen into the "Yeah, you can make a case for him if you bend the stats this way and ignore this and this" category. Like Tony Oliva, Graig Nettles, Thurman Munson, Bill Madlock. But this is what Joe Posnarski's list are like.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 21, 2021 21:23:53 GMT
#4 Roger Clemens
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 22, 2021 15:55:53 GMT
#3 Barry Lamar Bonds
Well, well, well. I looked and it states clearly "100 eligible players not in the Hall of Fame" Eligible, so not Ichiro or Mike Trout. Players, so it's not some shadowy inventor of baseball or Marvin Miller. So who is the top #2? I'm betting Sadaharu Oh is one. The Baseball HOF should be like the Basketball HOF. True that. But was Oh a better player of the field than Bonds, Rose of Jackson? Safe to say all three faced better pitchers than Oh. Can't imagine the other. Some other Japanese or foreign player? Some minor leaguer like Frank Schellenback or Jigger Statz, guys who put up epic numbers in minor leagues that were minor in name only. The minors at that time were quasi-independent. Nearly every year, there were high minor league teams that could have beaten Major League bottom feeders, some of which were atrocious.
God, please don't let it be "The Fans". Some feel good piece about how the game wouldn't exist without the loyal fans tripe. Or some "All the kids who picked up a baseball" bilge. Remember, Posnarski is noted for this. Duane Kuiper's one and only home run is the 2nd greatest moment in baseball, according to him.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jan 22, 2021 16:20:41 GMT
No & no. Both guys were HOF locks before they ever juiced. That should be the lesson & their legacy forever more.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 0:25:53 GMT
#2. Buck O'Neil
I thought he was in the HOF.
Who's #1?
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Post by Rufus-T on Jan 26, 2021 0:45:16 GMT
A-Rod???
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 0:54:25 GMT
Retired in 2016. Not eligible until 2022.
My money is on Sadaharu Oh.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Jan 26, 2021 2:27:52 GMT
Retired in 2016. Not eligible until 2022.
My money is on Sadaharu Oh.
Al Bumbry
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Post by tristramshandy on Jan 26, 2021 4:11:09 GMT
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Post by Rufus-T on Jan 26, 2021 4:45:15 GMT
Retired in 2016. Not eligible until 2022.
My money is on Sadaharu Oh.
Oh is an interesting choice. Does someone who played only in the Japanese eligible for HOF? If eligible, I don't understand why he is not considered.
I wonder if the list would pick another outside the box person, like someone from the Women League during the 40s-50s as #1, like Dorothy Kamenshek.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 5:14:52 GMT
Retired in 2016. Not eligible until 2022.
My money is on Sadaharu Oh.
Oh is an interesting choice. Does someone who played only in the Japanese eligible for HOF? If eligible, I don't understand why he is not considered.
I wonder if the list would pick another outside the box person, like someone from the Women League during the 40s-50s as #1, like Dorothy Kamenshek.
I think it will be Posnarik’s case for making the HOF like basketball and let international players in. Also I can’t think of anyone else. |
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Post by millar70 on Jan 26, 2021 5:50:38 GMT
Rick Burleson
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 5:56:03 GMT
His 2nd greatest moment in history was Duane Kuiper one and only homer. So anything is possible
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 17:24:10 GMT
1. Minnie Minoso
I forgot about him. Yeah, but #1
That ends that
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 26, 2021 17:29:01 GMT
1. Minnie Minoso I forgot about him. Yeah, but #1 That ends that Seems anti-climactic. |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jan 26, 2021 18:14:36 GMT
1. Minnie Minoso I forgot about him. Yeah, but #1 That ends that I feel dead inside.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 18:25:21 GMT
1. Minnie Minoso I forgot about him. Yeah, but #1 That ends that Seems anti-climactic. Yeah.
Minoso was a damned good player. For 10 years. HoF, probably. Minoso now known more for the "played in four decades" silliness. He was garbage for his cups of coffee in 1976 and 1980. .298 lifetime BA. Five top 10 MVP voting. Four Gold Gloves (GG wasn't began until 1957, Minoso started playing in 1951, other than a cup of coffee in 1949). Total up all his professional hits, Minoso is in the 4000 Hit club. So is Julio Franco and Arnold "Jigger" Statz. Better person than Bonds, Clemens, Jackson, certainly. Better player, no.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 26, 2021 18:43:27 GMT
1. Minnie Minoso I forgot about him. Yeah, but #1 That ends that I feel dead inside. I was expecting a curveball from the Top 100 Baseball Moments. but his Top 100 Players list was straightforward. The Top 25
1. Willie Mays 2. Babe Ruth 3. Barry Bonds 4. Hank Aaron (RIP) 5. Oscar Charleston 6. Ted Williams 7. Walter Johnson 8. Ty Cobb 9. Stan Musial
10. Satchel Paige
11. Mickey Mantle 12. Honus Wagner 13. Roger Clemens 14. Lou Gehrig
15. Josh Gibson
16. Alex Rodriguez
17. Rogers Hornsby
18. Tris Speaker
19T. Mike Schmidt 19T. Frank Robinson
21. Joe Morgan
22. Lefty Grove
23. Albert Pujols
24. Rickey Henderson
25. Pop Lloyd
You can argue the order, Ruth over Mays, Cobb too low. But there's no Duane Kuiper moment
Note on Charleston. In Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, he had him rated that high also.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jan 26, 2021 18:46:54 GMT
I was expecting a curveball from the Top 100 Baseball Moments. but his Top 100 Players list was straightforward. The Top 25
1. Willie Mays 2. Babe Ruth 3. Barry Bonds 4. Hank Aaron (RIP) 5. Oscar Charleston 6. Ted Williams 7. Walter Johnson 8. Ty Cobb 9. Stan Musial
10. Satchel Paige
11. Mickey Mantle 12. Honus Wagner 13. Roger Clemens 14. Lou Gehrig
15. Josh Gibson
16. Alex Rodriguez
17. Rogers Hornsby
18. Tris Speaker
19T. Mike Schmidt 19T. Frank Robinson
21. Joe Morgan
22. Lefty Grove
23. Albert Pujols
24. Rickey Henderson
25. Pop Lloyd
You can argue the order, Ruth over Mays, Cobb too low. But there's no Duane Kuiper moment
Note on Charleston. In Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, he had him rated that high also.
Was there a specific criteria that resulted in a tie between Schmidt and Robinson? If it's just him ranking the top players, that seems a bit strange.
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