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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 16, 2020 19:14:25 GMT
First three "paragraphs" from the article: NEW YORK -- Willie Mays will add some hits to his record, Monte Irvin's big league batting average should climb over .300, and Satchel Paige may add nearly 150 victories to his total. Josh Gibson, the greatest of all Negro League sluggers, might just wind up with a major league record too. The statistics and records of greats like Gibson, Paige and roughly 3,400 other players are set to join Major League Baseball's books after MLB announced Wednesday it is reclassifying the Negro Leagues as a major league. www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30531397/mlb-reclassifies-negro-leagues-major-league |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 16, 2020 19:19:06 GMT
jinx
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 16, 2020 19:21:31 GMT
Ummm, no. You can't equate the Negro Leagues with the American League or even the Federal League. One, their scoring (hence their record keeping) was inconsistent. Big games were not scored, games between a power and a town team were counted. Major Leagues games had standard scorers, Negro Leagues used any old score sheet. Two, the level of competition was substandard. There was a huge difference between the top teams, the KC Monarchs, the Homestead Grays, the Pittsburgh Crawfords, and the dregs was immense. Yeah, you could say the same about the Yankees and the St. Louis Browns, but teams that had no business being in the Negro Leagues would join, they would get the shit pounded out of them and drop out. Be like a Carolina League team playing for two weeks in the AL and having the stats count.
Will the exhibitions games played between the Negro Leagues and the Majors become official? Is Josh Gibson the all time HR leader now, even though no one knows how many he really hit? Will the Japanese Leagues become official?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:29:27 GMT
This is like stating Ichiro has more hits than Pete Rose
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:31:30 GMT
This is like stating that Julius Erving's ABA points count towards his All Time points
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:32:21 GMT
This is like stating that a boxers amateur wins should be counted in his pro win total as well as his Olympic wins
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:33:03 GMT
This is like counting Warren Moons CFL passing yards when talking about his all-time yards thrown
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Post by _ on Dec 16, 2020 19:34:00 GMT
This is like stating that screamingtreefrogs IMDb posts should be counted in his post total here.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:34:06 GMT
This is like stating Jaromir Jagr's Russian League goals should count towards his All-Time Goals Scored
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Post by _ on Dec 16, 2020 19:36:16 GMT
Josh Gibson, the greatest of all Negro League sluggers, might just wind up with a major league record too. Those will only count as 3/5 of a home run.
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 16, 2020 19:38:55 GMT
Ummm, no. You can't equate the Negro Leagues with the American League or even the Federal League. One, their scoring (hence their record keeping) was inconsistent. Big games were not scored, games between a power and a town team were counted. Major Leagues games had standard scorers, Negro Leagues used any old score sheet. Two, the level of competition was substandard. There was a huge difference between the top teams, the KC Monarchs, the Homestead Grays, the Pittsburgh Crawfords, and the dregs was immense. Yeah, you could say the same about the Yankees and the St. Louis Browns, but teams that had no business being in the Negro Leagues would join, they would get the shit pounded out of them and drop out. Be like a Carolina League team playing for two weeks in the AL and having the stats count. Will the exhibitions games played between the Negro Leagues and the Majors become official? Is Josh Gibson the all time HR leader now, even though no one knows how many he really hit? Will the Japanese Leagues become official? My knowledge of really old baseball isn't as strong as my knowledge of really old football, so I could be swayed either way. In the NFL, you had amazing disparity of teams' legitimacy in the early years of the game. There are all of these fly-by-night organizations (Kenosha Maroons? Tonawanda Kardex? New York Brickley Giants?) whose statistics count (if they were counted). You see it with college football as well, colleges counting wins versus YMCA teams in the 1800s in their all-time totals. Is that true for 19th century baseball as well?
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 16, 2020 19:39:33 GMT
This is like stating that Julius Erving's ABA points count towards his All Time points Aren't they? AFL statistics are counted in NFL totals.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:40:20 GMT
This is like stating that Julius Erving's ABA points count towards his All Time points Aren't they? AFL statistics are counted in NFL totals. If they are - it would outrage me
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Post by sdm3 on Dec 16, 2020 19:45:09 GMT
Aren't they? AFL statistics are counted in NFL totals. If they are - it would outrage me
Should we as sports fans accept this obscenity? |
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:51:22 GMT
If they are - it would outrage me
Should we as sports fans accept this obscenity? No
You can't combine stats like that
i.e. - some players get to benefit just because they chose to play in a weak league and were afraid for ride with the Big Boys
if that's true - the NFL counts AFL stats - shame on them
maybe that's why everybody says Dan Fouts was a good QB - yeah - maybe against weak competition
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Post by sdm3 on Dec 16, 2020 19:53:38 GMT
Should we as sports fans accept this obscenity? No
You can't combine stats like that
i.e. - some players get to benefit just because they chose to play in a weak league and were afraid for ride with the Big Boys
if that's true - the NFL counts AFL stats - shame on them
maybe that's why everybody says Dan Fouts was a good QB - yeah - maybe against weak competition
Should we count Wentz’s NFC East stats? |
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 16, 2020 19:55:41 GMT
Aren't they? AFL statistics are counted in NFL totals. If they are - it would outrage me
Baseball is in a weird situation. With basketball, it's the basketball hall of fame, not the NBA hall of fame. Arvydas Sabonis is in the basketball hall of fame. He's not in there for six years of playing with the Trailblazers, but if he doesn't play with the Trailblazers, he's not getting into the Hall of Fame. The greatest player in some Brazilian league is not in the Hall of Fame unless he played some in the NBA. Otto Graham only played six years in the NFL. He's not a Hall of Famer if they didn't count his AAFC years and stats. With football, if your team/league was absorbed by the NFL, those stats count even if they weren't against NFL teams. I think the same works with the ABA. The greatest Negro League players are in the MLB Hall of Fame, so those leagues have already been granted a level of legitimacy, but the teams weren't incorporated into MLB. If the numbers are suspect, why are they in the Hall of Fame?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 19:56:43 GMT
If they are - it would outrage me
Baseball is in a weird situation. With basketball, it's the basketball hall of fame, not the NBA hall of fame. Arvydas Sabonis is in the basketball hall of fame. He's not in there for six years of playing with the Trailblazers, but if he doesn't play with the Trailblazers, he's not getting into the Hall of Fame. The greatest player in some Brazilian league is not in the Hall of Fame unless he played some in the NBA. Otto Graham only played six years in the NFL. He's not a Hall of Famer if they didn't count his AAFC years and stats. With football, if your team/league was absorbed by the NFL, those stats count even if they weren't against NFL teams. I think the same works with the ABA. The greatest Negro League players are in the MLB Hall of Fame, so those leagues have already been granted a level of legitimacy, but the teams weren't incorporated into MLB. If the numbers are suspect, why are they in the Hall of Fame? I have a problem with The Basketball Hall of Fame as well
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Post by tristramshandy on Dec 16, 2020 20:01:05 GMT
Should we as sports fans accept this obscenity? No
You can't combine stats like that
i.e. - some players get to benefit just because they chose to play in a weak league and were afraid for ride with the Big Boys
if that's true - the NFL counts AFL stats - shame on them
maybe that's why everybody says Dan Fouts was a good QB - yeah - maybe against weak competition
Fouts is post AFL. And the AFL teams were beating the NFL teams the last two years that they played each other. Same with the Browns in the AAFC. In 1950, the AAFC champion Browns blew out the NFL champion Eagles 35-10 in their first game in the NFL. The Browns won the NFL title that year.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Dec 16, 2020 20:05:03 GMT
No
You can't combine stats like that
i.e. - some players get to benefit just because they chose to play in a weak league and were afraid for ride with the Big Boys
if that's true - the NFL counts AFL stats - shame on them
maybe that's why everybody says Dan Fouts was a good QB - yeah - maybe against weak competition
Fouts is post AFL. And the AFL teams were beating the NFL teams the last two years that they played each other. Same with the Browns in the AAFC. In 1950, the AAFC champion Browns blew out the NFL champion Eagles 35-10 in their first game in the NFL. The Browns won the NFL title that year. How come the NFL survived and the AFL didn't........
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