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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 20:08:08 GMT
If nothing else, they would have women priests. Right now they got zero. Men have run the Church since it’s inception. And it’s only been a few decades since women have been in the hierarchy of some Protestant churches. They still have little power in the White Evangelical churches. So, yeah. I think we should let females have a go at it before assuming they could do worse. Women already do have positions in the Catholic Church as Religious Sisters, & as nuns. But ZERO power. There are no female priests because they are considered unclean. Sorry, Eve’s Curse period makes women unworthy. Men are first class Christians because Adam wasn’t as evil as Eve...or something.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 17, 2020 20:09:28 GMT
And the bible verse which explicitly condemns abortion is ... Exodus chapter 20 verse 13. Nope, that is just about killing in general, or murder specifically. (Here's a clue: there is nothing in the Bible about condemning abortion per se.) And lest one needs reminding there is a little matter of the, er, slaughter of numbers of first born in that very same book. Or the rule that whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, even if it is to be by stoning not dashed against the rocks this time around. So I guess killing of children is ok sometimes then? And we are to take all of scripture as suitable for instruction, right?
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 20:11:40 GMT
Lots of otherwise dead people have heartbeats. Those that are braindead, but, still have a heartbeat have a chance to be saved. When both the brain & the heart have stopped, the person is completely dead. Anyway, it’s still not murder any more than collateral damage caused when we drop bombs on our enemies or when God ordered thousands of Canaanite babies slaughtered for being evil pagans. He give didn’t those kids much of a chance to be saved.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 20:16:02 GMT
Exodus chapter 20 verse 13. Nope, that is just about killing in general. And lest one needs reminding there is a little matter of the slaughter of first born in that very same book. r the rule that whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, even if it is to be by stoning and not dashed against the rocks this time. So I guess killing of children is ok sometimes then? Yep, God aborted a lot of first boy Egyptians baby boys if the Bible is to be believed. But really, folks like the OP don’t care about these unborn children as much as they do imposing their will and religion on others. They know abortion will not end with it being outlawed. They probably relish women returning to the back alley versions. That they rarely complain about how awful born children are treated is a clear indicator how much they don’t care about the unborn.
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 20:30:56 GMT
Women already do have positions in the Catholic Church as Religious Sisters, & as nuns. But ZERO power. There are no female priests because they are considered unclean. Sorry, Eve’s Curse period makes women unworthy. Men are first class Christians because Adam wasn’t as evil as Eve...or something. Not true. Women have had positions in power in the Church. Religious Sisters and/or nuns that have been elevated to prioresses or abbesses, have degrees of power. They are considered higher ranking than parish priests.
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 20:35:01 GMT
Exodus chapter 20 verse 13. Nope, that is just about killing in general, or murder specifically. (Here's a clue: there is nothing in the Bible about condemning abortion per se.) And lest one needs reminding there is a little matter of the, er, slaughter of numbers of first born in that very same book. Or the rule that whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, even if it is to be by stoning not dashed against the rocks this time around. So I guess killing of children is ok sometimes then? And we are to take all of scripture as suitable for instruction, right? Amos chapter 1, verse 13. Psalm 22 verses 11 -12 & Galatians chapter 1 verse 15 show that the child is alive from within the womb.
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 20:35:58 GMT
Those that are braindead, but, still have a heartbeat have a chance to be saved. When both the brain & the heart have stopped, the person is completely dead. Anyway, it’s still not murder any more than collateral damage caused when we drop bombs on our enemies or when God ordered thousands of Canaanite babies slaughtered for being evil pagans. He give didn’t those kids much of a chance to be saved. Nope.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 20:37:25 GMT
But ZERO power. There are no female priests because they are considered unclean. Sorry, Eve’s Curse period makes women unworthy. Men are first class Christians because Adam wasn’t as evil as Eve...or something. Not true. Women have had positions in power in the Church. Religious Sisters and/or nuns that have been elevated to prioresses or abbesses, have degrees of power. They are considered higher ranking than parish priests. They have no power other than maybe inside their order and even then the male bishop has the last say. Quit accepting scraps from the men. In two thousand, how years many female priests, bishops, or popes have there been? Answer: ZERO.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 17, 2020 20:45:24 GMT
Nope, that is just about killing in general. And lest one needs reminding there is a little matter of the slaughter of first born in that very same book. r the rule that whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, even if it is to be by stoning and not dashed against the rocks this time. So I guess killing of children is ok sometimes then? Yep, God aborted a lot of first boy Egyptians baby boys if the Bible is to be believed. But really, folks like the OP don’t care about these unborn children as much as they do imposing their will and religion on others. They know abortion will not end with it being outlawed. They probably relish women returning to the back alley versions. That they rarely complain about how awful born children are treated is a clear indicator how much they don’t care about the unborn. It ought to be added that the commandment against killing does not condemn all examples among God's creation without qualification, since otherwise man would starve. And, even among those ostensibly pro-life, there is a range of views of when abortion is permissable, ranging from never to a softer view depending on circumstances of woman and child. What we are talking about in almost every example is a sliding scale rather than a simple blanket no or yes to the procedure.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 17, 2020 21:00:43 GMT
Nope, that is just about killing in general, or murder specifically. (Here's a clue: there is nothing in the Bible about condemning abortion per se.) And lest one needs reminding there is a little matter of the, er, slaughter of numbers of first born in that very same book. Or the rule that whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death, even if it is to be by stoning not dashed against the rocks this time around. So I guess killing of children is ok sometimes then? And we are to take all of scripture as suitable for instruction, right? Amos chapter 1, verse 13. Psalm 22 verses 11 -12 & Galatians chapter 1 verse 15 show that the child is alive from within the womb. LOL you will have to try harder with this, and appear to be reaching. Amos 1:13 New International Version 13 This is what the Lord says: “For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not relent. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders" This (although the closest to a negative view) does not condemn abortion per se but rather expansionism and the barbarous mode of warfare used to pursue it. There is, significantly, no concern with child welfare. Standard commentary sites such as: www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/amos-1-13.html biblehub.com/commentaries/amos/1-13.htm do not even mention abortion at all! Psalm 22:11 New International Version 11 "Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help." This does not appear to be relevant by way of condemning abortion. Galatians 1:15 New International Version 15 "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased" It can be noted that there is no death of the child - and in fact the act of 'setting apart' is not viewed negatively. Do these verse specifically condemn abortion something which was asked for by way of example? Nope. If it was to be such a big thing one would have thought it would have been made more explicit. Jesus, who had nothing to say about the matter, has quite a few clear negative words to say against divorce. Why do the faithful not make that an issue?
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 21:01:03 GMT
Yep, God aborted a lot of first boy Egyptians baby boys if the Bible is to be believed. But really, folks like the OP don’t care about these unborn children as much as they do imposing their will and religion on others. They know abortion will not end with it being outlawed. They probably relish women returning to the back alley versions. That they rarely complain about how awful born children are treated is a clear indicator how much they don’t care about the unborn. It ought to be added that the commandment against killing does not condemn all examples among God's creation without qualification, since otherwise man would starve. And, even among those ostensibly pro-life, there is a range of views of when abortion is permissable, ranging from never to a softer view depending on circumstances of woman and child. What we are talking about in almost every example is a sliding scale rather than a simple blanket no or yes to the procedure. Getting Roe v Wade legally overturned is considered a major moral victory among the so-called Moral Majority. But don’t pay attention to the moral prostitution they have engaged in with Trump. Maybe if they would actually be moral instead moral talking, folks might respect them more.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 21:05:37 GMT
Amos chapter 1, verse 13. Psalm 22 verses 11 -12 & Galatians chapter 1 verse 15 show that the child is alive from within the womb. LOL you will have to try harder with this and appear to be reaching. Amos 1:13 New International Version 13 This is what the Lord says: “For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not relent. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders" This does not condemn abortion per se but rather expansionism and the barbarous mode of warfare used to pursue it. There is no concern with child welfare. Standard commentary sites such as: www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/amos-1-13.html biblehub.com/commentaries/amos/1-13.htm does not even mention abortion at all. Psalm 22:11 New International Version 11 Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. This does not appear to be relevant. Galatians 1:15 New International Version 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased It can be noted that there is no death of the child and in fact the act of 'setting apart' is not viewed negatively. Do these verse specifically condemn abortion which was asked for by way of example? Nope. These OT examples are considered prophetic ad poetic passages in the Hebrew Bible, but are not considered binding law which is only found in the Torah.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 17, 2020 21:11:31 GMT
Yes it would be different,
No it would not be better, It would be just as bad.
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 21:12:19 GMT
Not true. Women have had positions in power in the Church. Religious Sisters and/or nuns that have been elevated to prioresses or abbesses, have degrees of power. They are considered higher ranking than parish priests. They have no power other than maybe inside their order and even then the male bishop has the last say. Quit accepting scraps from the men. In two thousand, how years many female priests, bishops, or popes have there been? Answer: ZERO. There have been COUNTLESS religious sisters & nuns, who made outstanding saints, & even some them declared doctors of the Church. Abbesses are equivalent to Bishops. Abess
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 21:14:26 GMT
Amos chapter 1, verse 13. Psalm 22 verses 11 -12 & Galatians chapter 1 verse 15 show that the child is alive from within the womb. LOL you will have to try harder with this, and appear to be reaching. Amos 1:13 New International Version 13 This is what the Lord says: “For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not relent. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders" This (although the closest to a negative view) does not condemn abortion per se but rather expansionism and the barbarous mode of warfare used to pursue it. There is, significantly, no concern with child welfare. Standard commentary sites such as: www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/amos-1-13.html biblehub.com/commentaries/amos/1-13.htm do not even mention abortion at all! Psalm 22:11 New International Version 11 "Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help." This does not appear to be relevant by way of condemning abortion. Galatians 1:15 New International Version 15 "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased" It can be noted that there is no death of the child - and in fact the act of 'setting apart' is not viewed negatively. Do these verse specifically condemn abortion something which was asked for by way of example? Nope. If it was to be such a big thing one would have thought it would have been made more explicit. Jesus, who had nothing to say about the matter, has quite a few clear negative words to say against divorce. Why do the faithful not make that an issue? They show that life begins in the womb, & Amos chapter 1, in particular, shows that the killing of unborn is evil.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 17, 2020 21:16:20 GMT
They have no power other than maybe inside their order and even then the male bishop has the last say. Quit accepting scraps from the men. In two thousand, how years many female priests, bishops, or popes have there been? Answer: ZERO. There have been COUNTLESS religious sisters & nuns, who made outstanding saints, & even some them declared doctors of the Church. Abbesses are equivalent to Bishops. Abess An Abbess is not a Bishop because they are not and cannot be ordained. You are really lying hard to yourself today. But you are right that an abbess in the Medieval days had influence in the community where their convents were because instead of praying all the time, they would help the surrounding poor people with their farms, teaching new techniques and treating the sick and dying. Then the bishops shut them down and often persecuted the nuns for being too liberal.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 17, 2020 21:23:17 GMT
LOL you will have to try harder with this, and appear to be reaching. Amos 1:13 New International Version 13 This is what the Lord says: “For three sins of Ammon, even for four, I will not relent. Because he ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead in order to extend his borders" This (although the closest to a negative view) does not condemn abortion per se but rather expansionism and the barbarous mode of warfare used to pursue it. There is, significantly, no concern with child welfare. Standard commentary sites such as: www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/amos-1-13.html biblehub.com/commentaries/amos/1-13.htm do not even mention abortion at all! Psalm 22:11 New International Version 11 "Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help." This does not appear to be relevant by way of condemning abortion. Galatians 1:15 New International Version 15 "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased" It can be noted that there is no death of the child - and in fact the act of 'setting apart' is not viewed negatively. Do these verse specifically condemn abortion something which was asked for by way of example? Nope. If it was to be such a big thing one would have thought it would have been made more explicit. Jesus, who had nothing to say about the matter, has quite a few clear negative words to say against divorce. Why do the faithful not make that an issue? They show that life begins in the womb, & Amos chapter 1, in particular, shows that the killing of unborn is evil. Whether or not they show where life begins is not relevant since no one disputes that a newly fertilised egg is 'alive' - even if not a 'child' or an 'infant'. But if you can really only find one passage in the whole of scripture which sees untimely ripping from the womb in a negative light (the same number of times as being told not to collect firewood on Sundays) and even then not in a context of child welfare, when there are numerous examples of child killing in a justified way in the Bible, notably by God Himself - or ordered by Him - then your argument is in trouble.
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 23:37:24 GMT
There have been COUNTLESS religious sisters & nuns, who made outstanding saints, & even some them declared doctors of the Church. Abbesses are equivalent to Bishops. AbessAn Abbess is not a Bishop because they are not and cannot be ordained. You are really lying hard to yourself today. But you are right that an abbess in the Medieval days had influence in the community where their convents were because instead of praying all the time, they would help the surrounding poor people with their farms, teaching new techniques and treating the sick and dying. Then the bishops shut them down and often persecuted the nuns for being too liberal. I never said that an abbess was a bishop. I said that an abbess was equal to a bishop. No, I am not lying to myself, nor anyone else.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Dec 17, 2020 23:37:59 GMT
FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? Possibly. But any disability you have has nothing to do with my considerations on that...
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Post by clusium on Dec 17, 2020 23:39:41 GMT
They show that life begins in the womb, & Amos chapter 1, in particular, shows that the killing of unborn is evil. Whether or not they show where life begins is not relevant since no one disputes that a newly fertilised egg is 'alive' - even if not a 'child' or an 'infant'. But if you can really only find one passage in the whole of scripture which sees untimely ripping from the womb in a negative light (the same number of times as being told not to collect firewood on Sundays) and even then not in a context of child welfare, when there are numerous examples of child killing in a justified way in the Bible, notably by God Himself - or ordered by Him - then your argument is in trouble. God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God.
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