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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 4:02:55 GMT
Spoken like a true, fully indoctrinated Roman Catholic.
Why does your God forbid abortion, yet other Gods treat it differently.
My neighbor had a fetus with serious birth defects including Down Syndrome. Why did your God do this to her? She aborted the child as the child would have consumed her entire life and financial assets. She went on to have two healthy children that would not have been feasible if all of her resources had been consumed by the unhealthy child. In the end, God had more children than he would have had without the abortion.
It's very laudable of you to forbid abortions of children with birth defects, but then again, you don't have to spend your entire life caring for them.
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? No one would have known the difference if you were aborted, because you wouldn’t have been apart of human awareness/consciousness as we know it, do it’s irrelevant. As for your claim of being mentally disabled, I am not even going to go there, too easy.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 5:51:02 GMT
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? No one would have known the difference if you were aborted, because you wouldn’t have been apart of human awareness/consciousness as we know it, do it’s irrelevant. As for your claim of being mentally disabled, I am not even going to go there, too easy. Whether people would have known I was aborted or not, is not the question. I was asking Rodney Farber if he felt that I should have been aborted, since I am mentally disabled. How about you, since you say that it is "too easy" to make fun of the fact that I am mentally disabled: Do you think that I should have been aborted, based upon my mental disability?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 5:57:02 GMT
No one would have known the difference if you were aborted, because you wouldn’t have been apart of human awareness/consciousness as we know it, do it’s irrelevant. As for your claim of being mentally disabled, I am not even going to go there, too easy. Whether people would have known I was aborted or not, is not the question. I was asking Rodney Farber if he felt that I should have been aborted, since I am mentally disabled. How about you, since you say that it is "too easy" to make fun of the fact that I am mentally disabled: Do you think that I should have been aborted, based upon my mental disability? It is the question, because that is what you asked and it isn't a cut and dry scenario.
I don't know what your mental disability is, what the severity of it is, or if you are just using it as a buffer to make a point to push your anti-abortion agenda. It is an open ended question and it is also an absurd one. I personally couldn't care less who has abortions, so if your mother had aborted you, the poster that we know as clu who posts on here wouldn't even register with us, so what is your actual point, because you wouldn't be missed?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 6:07:23 GMT
Whether or not they show where life begins is not relevant since no one disputes that a newly fertilised egg is 'alive' - even if not a 'child' or an 'infant'. But if you can really only find one passage in the whole of scripture which sees untimely ripping from the womb in a negative light (the same number of times as being told not to collect firewood on Sundays) and even then not in a context of child welfare, when there are numerous examples of child killing in a justified way in the Bible, notably by God Himself - or ordered by Him - then your argument is in trouble. God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God. Except murdering abortionists right!!!
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 6:19:04 GMT
Whether people would have known I was aborted or not, is not the question. I was asking Rodney Farber if he felt that I should have been aborted, since I am mentally disabled. How about you, since you say that it is "too easy" to make fun of the fact that I am mentally disabled: Do you think that I should have been aborted, based upon my mental disability? It is the question, because that is what you asked and it isn't a cut and dry scenario.
I don't know what your mental disability is, what the severity of it is, or if you are just using it as a buffer to make a point to push your anti-abortion agenda. It is an open ended question and it is also an absurd one. I personally couldn't care less who has abortions, so if your mother had aborted you, the poster that we know as clu who posts on here wouldn't even register with us, so what is your actual point, because you wouldn't be missed?
You do have a point there. If I had been aborted, nobody on this forum would not know of me. Of course, if I had been killed years ago in a car accident, or fatal illness, it would exactly the same thing.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 6:19:36 GMT
God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God. Not mine.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 8:33:56 GMT
It is the question, because that is what you asked and it isn't a cut and dry scenario.
I don't know what your mental disability is, what the severity of it is, or if you are just using it as a buffer to make a point to push your anti-abortion agenda. It is an open ended question and it is also an absurd one. I personally couldn't care less who has abortions, so if your mother had aborted you, the poster that we know as clu who posts on here wouldn't even register with us, so what is your actual point, because you wouldn't be missed?
You do have a point there. If I had been aborted, nobody on this forum would not know of me. Of course, if I had been killed years ago in a car accident, or fatal illness, it would exactly the same thing. Except those that knew of you in your sentient human form previously. But that goes same for everyone and I know I don't go around grieving for those that weren't, as per aborted, or even those that I hear have passed and didn't know them. I may not even grieve for those that I have known and found out they had passed.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 8:34:51 GMT
Except murdering abortionists right!!! Not mine. Except that as a RC, your belief is one of condemnation of those that abort and claim it is sinful.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 15:13:14 GMT
You do have a point there. If I had been aborted, nobody on this forum would not know of me. Of course, if I had been killed years ago in a car accident, or fatal illness, it would exactly the same thing.Except those that knew of you in your sentient human form previously. But that goes same for everyone and I know I don't go around grieving for those that weren't, as per aborted, or even those that I hear have passed and didn't know them. I may not even grieve for those that I have known and found out they had passed. People have mourned those that have died before they were even born. Couples have wept over miscarriages and/or stillborns. And even in the case of abortion, the mothers have deeply regretted the decision afterwards, & mourn their unborn children & carry around the burden of guilt for their decision.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 15:14:38 GMT
Your own words. Not mine. Except that as a RC, your belief is one of condemnation of those that abort and claim it is sinful. Except that you said that is right to kill abortionists. I never said that. Killing abortionists does nothing to stop abortion. Changing laws do.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 18, 2020 18:43:11 GMT
Spoken like a true, fully indoctrinated Roman Catholic.
Why does your God forbid abortion, yet other Gods treat it differently.
My neighbor had a fetus with serious birth defects including Down Syndrome. Why did your God do this to her? She aborted the child as the child would have consumed her entire life and financial assets. She went on to have two healthy children that would not have been feasible if all of her resources had been consumed by the unhealthy child. In the end, God had more children than he would have had without the abortion.
It's very laudable of you to forbid abortions of children with birth defects, but then again, you don't have to spend your entire life caring for them.
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? Before I answer your question, how 'bout you answer mine.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 18, 2020 20:00:15 GMT
Whether or not they show where life begins is not relevant since no one disputes that a newly fertilised egg is 'alive' - even if not a 'child' or an 'infant'. But if you can really only find one passage in the whole of scripture which sees untimely ripping from the womb in a negative light (the same number of times as being told not to collect firewood on Sundays) and even then not in a context of child welfare, when there are numerous examples of child killing in a justified way in the Bible, notably by God Himself - or ordered by Him - then your argument is in trouble. God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God. If we have no right to take human life then how come God asks it of his followers in the Bible from time to time? Did God really will the death of all those who have died lately of Covid, struggling for breath and in pain? Why would He do that as a loving deity? And, as already mentioned there is a need to qualify 'thou shalt not kill' to mean 'thou shalt not murder' which is the standard interpretation. As murder is illegal killing, then a legal abortion is not covered by this prohibition. The Bible tells its readers to submit himself to the governing authorities, which includes those who set the laws on abortion, since those authorities that exist have been instituted by God, let us not forget; this while you still have to show any explicit condemnation of abortion, let alone in terms of child welfare, in any of scripture. Most religions are patriarchal and have long histories of reducing or subordinating women. Hence the spur for the OT here.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 18, 2020 20:05:07 GMT
No one would have known the difference if you were aborted, because you wouldn’t have been apart of human awareness/consciousness as we know it, do it’s irrelevant. As for your claim of being mentally disabled, I am not even going to go there, too easy. Whether people would have known I was aborted or not, is not the question. I was asking Rodney Farber if he felt that I should have been aborted, since I am mentally disabled. The answer to this is that aborting a foetus for what ever reason should be part of the freedom of women to control their own bodies, although always within set legal parameters and limits. Your mother chose to have you and we all accept that just as we might support any other choice. As it concerns the fullest exercise of free will, by which your purported deity sets so much store, I am sure you will appreciate this. I have a severely autistic brother the stress of whose upbringing arguably contributed to my mother's early death from a heart attack, and who being blind as well as unable to understand more than a handful of simple phrases, unable to speak, spends his days standing in his room rocking back and forth waiting for food and drink. God's will is a wonderful thing isn't it? But I still accept my mother's decision. That does not mean I accept the same choice ought to made by everyone. I hope that helps.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 21:28:35 GMT
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? Before I answer your question, how 'bout you answer mine. God Didn't Do this to her. The Fall did.
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 21:34:47 GMT
God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God. If we have no right to take human life then how come God asks it of his followers in the Bible from time to time? Did God really will the death of all those who have died lately of Covid, struggling for breath and in pain? Why would He do that as a loving deity? And, as already mentioned there is a need to qualify 'thou shalt not kill' to mean 'thou shalt not murder' which is the standard interpretation. As murder is illegal killing, then a legal abortion is not covered by this prohibition. The Bible tells its readers to submit himself to the governing authorities, which includes those who set the laws on abortion, since those authorities that exist have been instituted by God, let us not forget; this while you still have to show any explicit condemnation of abortion, let alone in terms of child welfare, in any of scripture. Most religions are patriarchal and have long histories of reducing or subordinating women. Hence the spur for the OT here. God Instituted the Commandment Thou shalt not kill. When God Asked his children to kill in the Bible, it was usually for defence. Eg: When God Had David kill Goliath & the Philistines. Of course, having blood on his hands, made David unworthy to build the Temple in Jerusalem. As already mentioned to Rodney Farber, the Fall has caused all the pain that we have in the world right down to this very day. Going by your argument that since abortion is legal, & thereby not prohibited under Thou shalt not kill, do you believe that the Holocaust was justified, as that was legal to murder millions of Jews, back when the Nazis were in power?
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Post by clusium on Dec 18, 2020 21:37:58 GMT
Whether people would have known I was aborted or not, is not the question. I was asking Rodney Farber if he felt that I should have been aborted, since I am mentally disabled. The answer to this is that aborting a foetus for what ever reason should be part of the freedom of women to control their own bodies, although always within set legal parameters and limits. Your mother chose to have you and we all accept that just as we might support any other choice. As it concerns the fullest exercise of free will, by which your purported deity sets so much store, I am sure you will appreciate this. I have a severely autistic brother the stress of whose upbringing arguably contributed to my mother's early death from a heart attack, and who being blind as well as unable to understand more than a handful of simple phrases, unable to speak, spends his days standing in his room rocking back and forth waiting for food and drink. God's will is a wonderful thing isn't it? But I still accept my mother's decision. That does not mean I accept the same choice ought to made by everyone. I hope that helps. My mother chose to have me, because she knew I was a sentient being with the right to life. She & my father would not have aborted me, even if they did know back when she was expecting me, that I would be facing mental difficulties. Raising me was pretty hard on my parents too (still is, for my mother).
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 18, 2020 22:09:31 GMT
If we have no right to take human life then how come God asks it of his followers in the Bible from time to time? Did God really will the death of all those who have died lately of Covid, struggling for breath and in pain? Why would He do that as a loving deity? And, as already mentioned there is a need to qualify 'thou shalt not kill' to mean 'thou shalt not murder' which is the standard interpretation. As murder is illegal killing, then a legal abortion is not covered by this prohibition. The Bible tells its readers to submit himself to the governing authorities, which includes those who set the laws on abortion, since those authorities that exist have been instituted by God, let us not forget; this while you still have to show any explicit condemnation of abortion, let alone in terms of child welfare, in any of scripture. Most religions are patriarchal and have long histories of reducing or subordinating women. Hence the spur for the OT here. God Instituted the Commandment Thou shalt not kill. When God Asked his children to kill in the Bible, it was usually for defence. Eg: When God Had David kill Goliath & the Philistines. Of course, having blood on his hands, made David unworthy to build the Temple in Jerusalem. As already mentioned to Rodney Farber, the Fall has caused all the pain that we have in the world right down to this very day. As already pointed out, there is plenty justified killing in the Bible either done by, or authorised by, your morally perfect God. And 'thou shalt not kill' refers to murder, not all forms of killing, whether legal or not, as is commonly recognised by commentators. Equating the Holocaust to abortions is a false, and I must say somewhat offensive, comparison. (Although it is revealing from one who refuses to condemn his God's own examples of genocide, or the ordering same of His followers in scripture). Some things, like genocide are always wrong. I hope that helps and that in fact you really do know the difference between the two. Also, as per Godwin's law, this means I am now leaving this thread.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 18, 2020 22:10:30 GMT
The answer to this is that aborting a foetus for what ever reason should be part of the freedom of women to control their own bodies, although always within set legal parameters and limits. Your mother chose to have you and we all accept that just as we might support any other choice. As it concerns the fullest exercise of free will, by which your purported deity sets so much store, I am sure you will appreciate this. I have a severely autistic brother the stress of whose upbringing arguably contributed to my mother's early death from a heart attack, and who being blind as well as unable to understand more than a handful of simple phrases, unable to speak, spends his days standing in his room rocking back and forth waiting for food and drink. God's will is a wonderful thing isn't it? But I still accept my mother's decision. That does not mean I accept the same choice ought to made by everyone. I hope that helps. My mother chose to have me, because she knew I was a sentient being with the right to life. She & my father would not have aborted me, even if they did know back when she was expecting me, that I would be facing mental difficulties. Raising me was pretty hard on my parents too (still is, for my mother). I am glad you at least recognise your mother's choice.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 18, 2020 22:32:27 GMT
It is the question, because that is what you asked and it isn't a cut and dry scenario.
I don't know what your mental disability is, what the severity of it is, or if you are just using it as a buffer to make a point to push your anti-abortion agenda. It is an open ended question and it is also an absurd one. I personally couldn't care less who has abortions, so if your mother had aborted you, the poster that we know as clu who posts on here wouldn't even register with us, so what is your actual point, because you wouldn't be missed?
You do have a point there. If I had been aborted, nobody on this forum would not know of me. Of course, if I had been killed years ago in a car accident, or fatal illness, it would exactly the same thing. not know of me.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Dec 18, 2020 22:39:17 GMT
Before I answer your question, how 'bout you answer mine. God Didn't Do this to her. The Fall did. You assume The Fall is a real thing. There’s no proof it happened. Just like there’s no proof there’s a God. You cannot make real-time, civil law based an assumption. You can believe in it all you want, but you can’t force me to believe it and writing God, Jesus, and BVM into our civil laws forces me into becoming a de facto Christian. You have NO RIGHT to do this. Stay out of My Soul.
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