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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 23:42:05 GMT
Except those that knew of you in your sentient human form previously. But that goes same for everyone and I know I don't go around grieving for those that weren't, as per aborted, or even those that I hear have passed and didn't know them. I may not even grieve for those that I have known and found out they had passed. People have mourned those that have died before they were even born. Couples have wept over miscarriages and/or stillborns. And even in the case of abortion, the mothers have deeply regretted the decision afterwards, & mourn their unborn children & carry around the burden of guilt for their decision. How do you know who is mourning and not mourning about those that have died before they were even born? Most women make conscious decisions about their abortions. And if there are those that do, it is the projection of guilt, like those in the CC, that make these women feel the way they do. Nice Christians aye!
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 18, 2020 23:50:19 GMT
Except that as a RC, your belief is one of condemnation of those that abort and claim it is sinful. Except that you said that is right to kill abortionists. I never said that. Killing abortionists does nothing to stop abortion. Changing laws do. Now you are just twisting the intention around my point, to find away around it.
Whose laws, man made laws, which can be an ass, or God's laws which are also man made and are an ass? Either way, laws won't do a darn thing and is never going to change the right of 'free will'/choice, that a female has over her body and life.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Dec 19, 2020 0:17:39 GMT
Before I answer your question, how 'bout you answer mine. God Didn't Do this to her. The Fall did. At no time did I say that she fell. The birth defects were entirely caused by God. Why?
As for your alleged mental disability, why did your God cause that?
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Dec 19, 2020 0:30:44 GMT
So why did the Catholic Church wait until 2018 to decide it was against the Death Penalty? Was it (and by extension God) in favour of it beforehand? The Catholic Church certainly seemed to be happy executing large numbers of people through a lot of it's history...? Were they wrong then? And were they wrong when they ordered the Crusades? It seems confusing. There have been people within the Catholic Church that opposed the Death Penalty before 2018. Pope John Paul II & St. Teresa of Kolkata had both appealed to American presidents for clemency of some death row inmates, themselves. Yes, they were wrong to execute people in the past. This was acknowledged way back in 2000. Surely you are aware of that, are you not? The point is that you're saying that we should trust religion to guide us on what is right and what is wrong. But it's taken them 2,000 years (give or take) since Jesus popped up to come to the conclusion that killing people is wrong. So how do we know that they aren't going to change their minds again in the future and decide something else? It seems that they're not just relaying God's infallible instructions, but kind of making it up as they go along and changing the rules as the popular feelings for things change. They used to be completely fine with slavery, but that changed too. Currently the Pope is softening his position on divorce and homosexuality so I can we expect God's position on that to change at some point the future too?
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Post by clusium on Dec 19, 2020 0:36:24 GMT
My mother chose to have me, because she knew I was a sentient being with the right to life. She & my father would not have aborted me, even if they did know back when she was expecting me, that I would be facing mental difficulties. Raising me was pretty hard on my parents too (still is, for my mother). I am glad you at least recognise your mother's choice. My mother recognized me as what I was (& am): A human life.
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Post by clusium on Dec 19, 2020 0:46:13 GMT
People have mourned those that have died before they were even born. Couples have wept over miscarriages and/or stillborns. And even in the case of abortion, the mothers have deeply regretted the decision afterwards, & mourn their unborn children & carry around the burden of guilt for their decision. How do you know who is mourning and not mourning about those that have died before they were even born? Most women make conscious decisions about their abortions. And if there are those that do, it is the projection of guilt, like those in the CC, that make these women feel the way they do. Nice Christians aye!
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 19, 2020 1:03:37 GMT
How do you know who is mourning and not mourning about those that have died before they were even born? Most women make conscious decisions about their abortions. And if there are those that do, it is the projection of guilt, like those in the CC, that make these women feel the way they do. Nice Christians aye! Propaganda. You have posted that before and it doesn't mean a darn thing.
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Post by goz on Dec 19, 2020 2:37:36 GMT
If a bishop can order an abbess around, they’re hardly equal. Anyway, as good and loyal a Catholic you are, since you’re female. you may never perform the Eucharist rite. Never. You’re only allowed to wash the linen. On the other hand, being a queer male does not prevent me from becoming a priest. As a matter of fact, since I’ve complete most of the diaconate training, I can go right into the seminary now. Since they’re desperate for priests, I’m sure they’d welcome me open arms. Not you though. You’re not welcome. I'm really crushed that I will never be able to administer the Sacraments (sarcasm). This is the most perplexing thing you have ever posted on here. You are admitting that what you have previously claimed as THE most important thing in Catholicism [quoteWhy do we have Mass? We have Mass to worship and to receive God’s grace, to unify with him and with other worshipers through the sacrament of the Eucharist. As a sacrament, it is that Jesus himself acting through the Eucharist, and supplies all the graces we derive from it. At Mass we are able to stand mystically at the foot of the cross and witness for ourselves the same self-sacrifice of Jesus, in an unbloody manner. Mass is a celebration of this sacrifice. It is the active participation of all that come together in the place of worship. We do not come to Mass simply to receive something passively or to watch a show; we come as participants embracing the grace Christ pours out for us shed by his own blood on the cross.[/quote] is something that you as a woman can never do. Ie preside over Mass and aminister the Sacraments. Wow, just wow.
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Post by HeCantStandStill on Dec 19, 2020 4:13:50 GMT
Whether or not they show where life begins is not relevant since no one disputes that a newly fertilised egg is 'alive' - even if not a 'child' or an 'infant'. But if you can really only find one passage in the whole of scripture which sees untimely ripping from the womb in a negative light (the same number of times as being told not to collect firewood on Sundays) and even then not in a context of child welfare, when there are numerous examples of child killing in a justified way in the Bible, notably by God Himself - or ordered by Him - then your argument is in trouble. God Is the Author of life. When a person dies, it is By the Will Of God, even if that person lives to be a 101 & of natural causes. WE have no right to take human life. Thou shalt not kill is for us, as we are all equal in the Eyes Of God. That is the most flexible commandment of them all. People have been killing in the name of religion for thousands of years (and because they were coveting their neighbors property). Wasn't it the Pope in the middle ages that told everyone to kill the Muslims, steal their property and hand it over to the church?
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Post by HeCantStandStill on Dec 19, 2020 4:22:51 GMT
Spoken like a true, fully indoctrinated Roman Catholic.
Why does your God forbid abortion, yet other Gods treat it differently.
My neighbor had a fetus with serious birth defects including Down Syndrome. Why did your God do this to her? She aborted the child as the child would have consumed her entire life and financial assets. She went on to have two healthy children that would not have been feasible if all of her resources had been consumed by the unhealthy child. In the end, God had more children than he would have had without the abortion.
It's very laudable of you to forbid abortions of children with birth defects, but then again, you don't have to spend your entire life caring for them.
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? Interesting that you brought that up...There are a lot of hard core Christians that wish they had a kid who is mentally or very severely physically disabled rather than have a normal gay kid. They would abort the fetus if they knew he was to grow up gay. What are your thoughts on this? I ask because I know a few catholic priests who firmly believe that.
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Post by HeCantStandStill on Dec 19, 2020 4:24:10 GMT
I'm really crushed that I will never be able to administer the Sacraments (sarcasm). This is the most perplexing thing you have ever posted on here. You are admitting that what you have previously claimed as THE most important thing in Catholicism [quoteWhy do we have Mass? We have Mass to worship and to receive God’s grace, to unify with him and with other worshipers through the sacrament of the Eucharist. As a sacrament, it is that Jesus himself acting through the Eucharist, and supplies all the graces we derive from it. At Mass we are able to stand mystically at the foot of the cross and witness for ourselves the same self-sacrifice of Jesus, in an unbloody manner. Mass is a celebration of this sacrifice. It is the active participation of all that come together in the place of worship. We do not come to Mass simply to receive something passively or to watch a show; we come as participants embracing the grace Christ pours out for us shed by his own blood on the cross. She obviously feels women should be kept in their place, much like they are in the middle east. is something that you as a woman can never do. Ie preside over Mass and aminister the Sacraments. Wow, just wow.[/quote]
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Dec 20, 2020 23:37:05 GMT
Most religions will tell you that abortion is murder. Not just Catholicism. Not just Christianity. FYI, I happen to be mentally disabled too. Do you think that I should have been aborted? Interesting that you brought that up... There are a lot of hard core Christians that wish they had a kid who is mentally or very severely physically disabled rather than have a normal gay kid. They would abort the fetus if they knew he was to grow up gay.What are your thoughts on this? I ask because I know a few catholic priests who firmly believe that. I recall seeing a doco on the gay gene detector of the fetus around the 90's I think, or perhaps it was a talk show. It soon got swept under the rug and not promoted. This would have largely been the reason why. Gay is still not "normal" or wrong to many, even though genetic.
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