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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 19:48:32 GMT
Science doesn’t know the truth in this matter. I agree, and I've said I agree about a million times. Science also doesn't know the truth about the existence any being you can imagine; the question is why is it rational to believe in any of them. Why is it rational to stick your nose into billions of other people’s thoughts? |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 19:49:26 GMT
You don’t have the evidence about this matter either. The evidence is that there isn't any evidence God exists. There isn’t any evidence that God doesn’t exist either. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 19:56:31 GMT
The evidence is that there isn't any evidence God exists. There isn’t any evidence that God doesn’t exist either. Which means, all things being equal, that it is more rational to lack belief in God until there is evidence sufficient to think otherwise.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2021 19:56:50 GMT
4) What falsehood do you think I believe in? I don't think you know the definition of the word belief. People believe in things they do not know. They know things they have proof exist. My "belief" in God is not the same thing as me "knowing" God exist. The existence of God is not a falsehood. There is no proof God doesn't exist. So one cannot say with provable evidence that God doesn't exist. 4) Maybe "falsehood" is the wrong word, but you're essentially saying it's rational to believe something with no evidence or reason to think it's true other than that it makes you happy. Would you say any of these statements are rational: "Believing I have a billion dollars in my bank account makes me happy. You can't prove I don't, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing I'm the reincarnated spirit of Jimi Hendrix makes me happy. You can't prove I'm not, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing in The Flying Spaghetti Monster makes me happy. You can't prove it doesn't exist, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing in Santa Clause makes me happy. You can't prove he doesn't exist, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing we're all living in the matrix makes me happy. You can't prove we aren't, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election makes me happy. You can't prove he didn't, so I'll choose to believe it." God is no different than any of these things. The only difference between belief and knowledge is the confidence level. Knowledge is something you might be 99.99% certain is true, while you can believe anything that reaches a subjective threshold that you think is true. So how confident are you that God exists? 50%? 66%? 75%? 90%? And what evidence/reasoning did you use to get to that level, keeping in mind that "it makes me feel good" is not evidence that God exists? Oh my goodness Eva, this is so stupid. You are lucky I'm home sick. Otherwise I wouldn't have the time to go through this foolishness. - I can prove how much money I have in the bank. So believing isn't necessarily. - I don't believe in reincarnation. - I've never heard of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. - I used to believe in Santa Claus when I was a child. But then I grew up. - I don't see any evidence for believing in a matrix. And no compelling reason to believe in any matrix. - I never voted for Trump. I don't want him to be president. And all the judges --- even ones he appointed --- say there is no evidence of fraud. I have good reason to believe in God. No good reasons to believe in those other things. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 20:02:54 GMT
4) Maybe "falsehood" is the wrong word, but you're essentially saying it's rational to believe something with no evidence or reason to think it's true other than that it makes you happy. Would you say any of these statements are rational: "Believing I have a billion dollars in my bank account makes me happy. You can't prove I don't, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing I'm the reincarnated spirit of Jimi Hendrix makes me happy. You can't prove I'm not, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing in The Flying Spaghetti Monster makes me happy. You can't prove it doesn't exist, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing in Santa Clause makes me happy. You can't prove he doesn't exist, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing we're all living in the matrix makes me happy. You can't prove we aren't, so I'll choose to believe it." "Believing Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election makes me happy. You can't prove he didn't, so I'll choose to believe it." God is no different than any of these things. The only difference between belief and knowledge is the confidence level. Knowledge is something you might be 99.99% certain is true, while you can believe anything that reaches a subjective threshold that you think is true. So how confident are you that God exists? 50%? 66%? 75%? 90%? And what evidence/reasoning did you use to get to that level, keeping in mind that "it makes me feel good" is not evidence that God exists? Oh my goodness Eva, this is so stupid. You are lucky I'm home sick. Otherwise I wouldn't have the time to go through this foolishness. - I can prove how much money I have in the bank. So believing isn't necessarily. - I don't believe in reincarnation. - I've never heard of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. - I used to believe in Santa Claus when I was a child. But then I grew up. - I don't see any evidence for believing in a matrix. And no compelling reason to believe in any matrix. - I never voted for Trump. I don't want him to be president. And all the judges --- even ones he appointed --- say there is no evidence of fraud. I have good reason to believe in God. No good reasons to believe in those other things. As far as I understand it, you believe in (the notion of) God making you happy, not that He necessarily exists. Whether or not the deity exists is besides the point since it cannot be objectively proved. Unless you are saying more that the deity must, because you are happy - which indeed would be irrational.
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 20:03:21 GMT
Analogies are ridiculous.
The belief in a higher power is the only constant for thousands and thousands of years.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 5, 2021 20:08:12 GMT
Analogies are ridiculous. The belief in a higher power is the only constant for thousands and thousands of years. "Analogies are ridiculous." You do realize analogies and hypotheticals are one of the most widely used tools in philosophical discussion and debate right? They allow us to frame beliefs in ways people might not have considered before and forces them really examine their beliefs. Sounds like you just don't want to answer difficult questions. "The belief in a higher power is the only constant for thousands and thousands of years." I'm not sure what you mean by this. You do realize religion has been on the decline for quite some time right?
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2021 20:19:36 GMT
Oh my goodness Eva, this is so stupid. You are lucky I'm home sick. Otherwise I wouldn't have the time to go through this foolishness. - I can prove how much money I have in the bank. So believing isn't necessarily. - I don't believe in reincarnation. - I've never heard of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. - I used to believe in Santa Claus when I was a child. But then I grew up. - I don't see any evidence for believing in a matrix. And no compelling reason to believe in any matrix. - I never voted for Trump. I don't want him to be president. And all the judges --- even ones he appointed --- say there is no evidence of fraud. I have good reason to believe in God. No good reasons to believe in those other things. As far as I understand it, you believe in (the notion of) God making you happy, not that He necessarily exists. Whether or not the deity exists is besides the point since it cannot be objectively proved. Unless you are saying more that the deity must, because you are happy - which indeed would be irrational. No. I'm not saying that. Me being happy, because I believe in God, is not proof He exist. |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 20:20:35 GMT
Endlessly equating the physical world with the spiritual world is beyond ridiculous.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 5, 2021 20:24:32 GMT
Endlessly equating the physical world with the spiritual world is beyond ridiculous. No one is doing that. My argument is that "spiritual world" hasn't been demonstrated to exist in the first place, so saying it can't be equated with the physical world is rather moot. It's like saying the "equating the physical world with a magical leprechaun world is beyond riddiculous". It's a useless argument.
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 20:28:39 GMT
If you don’t think there’s reasons enough to believe in God, then don’t.
Leave others alone to think for themselves.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 20:34:03 GMT
As far as I understand it, you believe in (the notion of) God making you happy, not that He necessarily exists. Whether or not the deity exists is besides the point since it cannot be objectively proved. Unless you are saying more that the deity must, because you are happy - which indeed would be irrational. No. I'm not saying that. Me being happy, because I believe in God, is not proof He exist. In which case would any unproven belief you can hold be rational, because it makes you happy? Why would one in a deity be any different?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 20:35:08 GMT
If you don’t think there’s reasons enough to believe in God, then don’t. Leave others alone to think for themselves. That's fine until their thoughts are aired in public.
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 20:35:39 GMT
In which case would any unproven belief you can hold be rational, because it makes you happy? Why would one in a deity be any different?
—————-
PHYSICAL WORLD IS NOT THE SPIRITUAL WORLD!!!!
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 5, 2021 20:36:59 GMT
If you don’t think there’s reasons enough to believe in God, then don’t. Leave others alone to think for themselves. I live in a country where a huge chunk still deny evolution, think prayer should be enforced in schools, think only Christians should run the government, are against stem cell research and think atheists are worse than rapists. Should I just leave them to "think for themselves"?
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2021 20:38:25 GMT
No. I'm not saying that. Me being happy, because I believe in God, is not proof He exist. In which case would any unproven belief you can hold be rational, because it makes you happy? Why would one in a deity be any different? A belief is something one holds about things that can't or haven't been proven. So --- all beliefs are unproven. Or they would be classified as knowledge. Not beliefs. |
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Post by SciFive on Jan 5, 2021 20:38:56 GMT
It is irrational to equate a belief in God with insanity when SCIENCE DOES NOT KNOW THE TRUTH IN THIS MATTER!
It’s malicious smearing!!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 20:41:39 GMT
In which case would any unproven belief you can hold be rational, because it makes you happy? Why would one in a deity be any different? A belief is something one holds about things that can't be proven. So --- all beliefs are unproven. Or they would be classified as knowledge. Not beliefs. Yes, I agree but that does not answer the question why any belief is necessarily rational because it makes one happy.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 5, 2021 20:43:18 GMT
A belief is something one holds about things that can't or haven't been proven. So --- all beliefs are unproven. Or they would be classified as knowledge. Not beliefs. Yes, I agree but that does answer the question, which is why any belief is necessarily rational because it makes one happy. Just because a belief makes one happy, does not mean it's rational. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 5, 2021 20:46:10 GMT
Yes, I agree but that does answer the question, which is why any belief is necessarily rational because it makes one happy. Just because a belief makes one happy, does not mean it's rational. Thank you. Those "other good reasons" to believe in God I leave to you, but no doubt they have been rehearsed before.
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