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Post by moviemouth on Jan 11, 2021 20:55:40 GMT
Which has never made sense to me, since it's a dream. If they actually had a dinosaur talk and it's wasn't a dream I could understand it being mocked. I think the problem people generally have is that the movie tries to play that moment as a jump scare, but it just comes across as silly. That is a good explanation as well. It is more or less what the problem with that scene is. Whatever the moment is going for, it misses the mark completely. Instead of scary or dramatic, it is just ridiculous. They should have not had the dinosaur talk. What it comes off as is a parody scene. I was imagining the smart gremlin from Gremlins 2 sitting next to Alan Grant on the plane. 
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Post by mstreepsucks on Jan 11, 2021 20:58:07 GMT
hudson hawk, not as bad as it's made out to be. Actually, it's decent says me.
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Post by Popeye Doyle on Jan 11, 2021 21:03:17 GMT
Casino gets slighted as an inferior Goodfellas. I think Casino is the better movie, though.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jan 11, 2021 21:55:19 GMT
Zemeckis' two Christmas performance-capture movies are always trashed for being lifeless and creepy.
I think they're both great movies with genuinely ambitious visuals and powerful messages.
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Post by judgejosephdredd on Jan 12, 2021 2:59:51 GMT
Um, I think you're looking into the 'drinking green breast milk' part of my comment a bit too far there, it was just describing Luke's new kind of lifestyle as a recluse at the start of The Last Jedi, nothing more really. Nobody missed the entire final act of the film, that Luke wasn't like that from the start of the picture is what's disappointing. He had a great arc in the original trilogy and to discover that he became a broken clock of a person in recent memory just feels like a knife to the heart for many fans, it wasn't a good subversion of expectations it felt like a middle finger - and it's kinda telling when you have interviews and Twitter comments from Mark Hamill strongly suggesting he didn't like what Johnson and Kennedy were doing with the character. Luke at the end of season 2 of The Mandalorian, now THAT is the Luke Skywalker everybody wanted. Subversion has become problematic in recent memory because most filmmakers applying it to genre entertainment do not know how to effectively do it. Psycho is an example of subversion done right, you get to know who Marion Crane is and feel all the emotions she has when she decides to take a huge risk in her life and when she dies nearly halfway into the picture it is an absolute shock because you are set on following her arc from start to finish. We only saw a little bit of Snoke in The Force Awakens, there was anticipation to learn more about him and what he is to Empire and The Last Jedi right before they almost did anything with him killed him off. It's not clever or interesting, it's pretty sloppy storytelling especially coming off of The Force Awakens. Johnson's whole approach to The Last Jedi was essentially not to make a second half of a three part story but a second half and a third half of one. He threw out most of what Abrams was trying to set into motion and made it so hectic for Trevorrow that the latter eventually left and Abrams was brought in to try and fix the mess Johnson had made. In all honesty, The Last Jedi serves as a good example as to why you don't let somebody like Rian Johnson try to take over the driver's seat in the middle of a trip, Star Wars is not a kind of property you can deconstruct as much as you like and expect everyone to love it in the end you have to follow certain rules and respect certain things in the canon as well as what past artists have contributed. If anything he should have been rewarded with a one-off that was a stand alone story set in the Star Wars universe, but nothing major to where it would be impactful on the property as a whole. They gave her no origin, said her parents were nobodies, and offered no real explanation for her amazing force abilities, she was OP from start to finish and just learned to home in on certain powers here and there, not a lot of growth. I would say because she didn't she use it at all in The Force Awakens is what brought on such raised eyebrows, if she had done something of similar note in that film there probably wouldn't have been as much complaining about that particular moment. Yes, fans wanted a stunt double with Hamill's face hastily pasted on to walk in and hack up stormtroopers. I get that. Luke even quips about that in the film (incidently, that scene in Mandalorian is around the same length as Luke's fight with the First Order, with both probably totalling the amount of time you can have a God level character with no discernable flaws around). Aside from TFA pushing TLJ into a corner to explain why Luke wasn't doing that very thing from the beginning, I just don't think "Luke didn't play out my fanfic" is very good film criticism. At least thatguy is trying to make an argument for why it's not in character. As far as Snoke goes, I can't help but feel like giving Snoke an extended backstory, richly developing him, and then killing him off at the same point would have gone over better. In fact, I think it would have been worse. He's a two-dimensional secondary villain and dies as such. "He threw out most of what Abrams was trying to set into motion and made it so hectic for Trevorrow that the latter eventually left and Abrams was brought in to try and fix the mess Johnson had made" - if I'm being honest, this kind of feels like the tin foil hat propaganda you'd read on the Star Wars board. I remember a common "fact" there was that Trevorrow left because Johnson killing off Luke fumbled all of his awesome Luke plans. That turned out to be horseshit. And as it happens, what Johnson did wasn't so hectic that Trevorrow couldn't turn out a pretty decent follow up you can read right now. All JJ set up was mystery boxes, and when forced to open them, all he can give us are the same things we've seen. Had TLJ not existed, we'd probably still have gotten the same Rise of Skywalker if not only with Snoke instead of Palpatine. Mary Sue's are typically of great lineage and family, so I don't see how her parents being drunk nobodies makes her more of one. TLJ honoring an aspect of Leia's character set up in RotJ and glossed over in TFA is not a fair criticism of TLJ, is it? No, fans wanted a Luke Skywalker who was a wise old man who despite the many challenges he had faced and was standing in front of remains loyal to his purpose and friends, and if he had to go at least go out in a blaze of glory that reminds everyone how well he lives up to his legend. They didn't want a Luke Skywalker who was a quitter who didn't anything more to do with the Jedi or the force or even his friends and family, who tried to terminate his own nephew while they were resting, turn his back on Rey for real, and kick the bucket after projecting himself like Loki. In that case, why bother having Snoke at all then? Abrams was clearly setting them up for something big with The Force Awakens, and Johnson killed him off in what is supposed to be the very middle section of a three part saga. It would've been different if he was not built up as such a huge powerful being and just a random guy barking orders, but clearly Abrams and Johnson didn't see eye to eye there, and we can all blame that on Kennedy for not being a good manager. JJ Abrams had mapped out a trilogy with other writers with the intention of co-writing and directing The Force Awakens but laying out certain plot beats and arcs that the coming writers and directors had to follow but work around to still give their own kind of flavor to it. Johnson pretty much took what was laid out and threw most if not everything in the trash and decided to tell a story that acted not just as a sequel but even a finale of sorts, this wouldn't had happened if Kathleen Kennedy had a better grasp of storytelling and what is better for the property but instead she took much of a liking to Johnson's personality and didn't stand in their way. The result? A film that strongly divided consumers, made longtime fans of the property more questionable of Disney's handling of the franchise, and pretty much stomped out whatever plans Kennedy had going forward. Now with the success of The Mandalorian, most of the franchise's future is on Disney+ and Kennedy is only really overseeing two or three upcoming Star Wars productions as extensively as she used to, all others will be looking more towards Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni for guidance. Actually, Trevorrow tried his best to work around The Last Jedi, many have called his script titled Duel of the Fates a very fine continuation that would've wrapped up the whole Skywalker saga good enough but Trevorrow didn't see eye to eye with Kennedy in the end. Because she was still pretty OP and felt written as more of a concept than as a character. It's just a pretty lame scene all around, Leia deserved a better scene to show off her force abilities and Carrie Fisher(RIP) deserved better written scenes.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jan 12, 2021 5:58:56 GMT
Yes, fans wanted a stunt double with Hamill's face hastily pasted on to walk in and hack up stormtroopers. I get that. Luke even quips about that in the film (incidently, that scene in Mandalorian is around the same length as Luke's fight with the First Order, with both probably totalling the amount of time you can have a God level character with no discernable flaws around). Aside from TFA pushing TLJ into a corner to explain why Luke wasn't doing that very thing from the beginning, I just don't think "Luke didn't play out my fanfic" is very good film criticism. At least thatguy is trying to make an argument for why it's not in character. As far as Snoke goes, I can't help but feel like giving Snoke an extended backstory, richly developing him, and then killing him off at the same point would have gone over better. In fact, I think it would have been worse. He's a two-dimensional secondary villain and dies as such. "He threw out most of what Abrams was trying to set into motion and made it so hectic for Trevorrow that the latter eventually left and Abrams was brought in to try and fix the mess Johnson had made" - if I'm being honest, this kind of feels like the tin foil hat propaganda you'd read on the Star Wars board. I remember a common "fact" there was that Trevorrow left because Johnson killing off Luke fumbled all of his awesome Luke plans. That turned out to be horseshit. And as it happens, what Johnson did wasn't so hectic that Trevorrow couldn't turn out a pretty decent follow up you can read right now. All JJ set up was mystery boxes, and when forced to open them, all he can give us are the same things we've seen. Had TLJ not existed, we'd probably still have gotten the same Rise of Skywalker if not only with Snoke instead of Palpatine. Mary Sue's are typically of great lineage and family, so I don't see how her parents being drunk nobodies makes her more of one. TLJ honoring an aspect of Leia's character set up in RotJ and glossed over in TFA is not a fair criticism of TLJ, is it? No, fans wanted a Luke Skywalker who was a wise old man who despite the many challenges he had faced and was standing in front of remains loyal to his purpose and friends, and if he had to go at least go out in a blaze of glory that reminds everyone how well he lives up to his legend. They didn't want a Luke Skywalker who was a quitter who didn't anything more to do with the Jedi or the force or even his friends and family, who tried to terminate his own nephew while they were resting, turn his back on Rey for real, and kick the bucket after projecting himself like Loki. In that case, why bother having Snoke at all then? Abrams was clearly setting them up for something big with The Force Awakens, and Johnson killed him off in what is supposed to be the very middle section of a three part saga. It would've been different if he was not built up as such a huge powerful being and just a random guy barking orders, but clearly Abrams and Johnson didn't see eye to eye there, and we can all blame that on Kennedy for not being a good manager. JJ Abrams had mapped out a trilogy with other writers with the intention of co-writing and directing The Force Awakens but laying out certain plot beats and arcs that the coming writers and directors had to follow but work around to still give their own kind of flavor to it. Johnson pretty much took what was laid out and threw most if not everything in the trash and decided to tell a story that acted not just as a sequel but even a finale of sorts, this wouldn't had happened if Kathleen Kennedy had a better grasp of storytelling and what is better for the property but instead she took much of a liking to Johnson's personality and didn't stand in their way. The result? A film that strongly divided consumers, made longtime fans of the property more questionable of Disney's handling of the franchise, and pretty much stomped out whatever plans Kennedy had going forward. Now with the success of The Mandalorian, most of the franchise's future is on Disney+ and Kennedy is only really overseeing two or three upcoming Star Wars productions as extensively as she used to, all others will be looking more towards Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni for guidance. Actually, Trevorrow tried his best to work around The Last Jedi, many have called his script titled Duel of the Fates a very fine continuation that would've wrapped up the whole Skywalker saga good enough but Trevorrow didn't see eye to eye with Kennedy in the end. Because she was still pretty OP and felt written as more of a concept than as a character. It's just a pretty lame scene all around, Leia deserved a better scene to show off her force abilities and Carrie Fisher(RIP) deserved better written scenes. Hey, I'm just going of what you said about Mandalorian where he wasn't exactly those things either. If you ask me, few characters in the saga went out on a bigger blaze of glory than Luke. If it wasn't a projection, would that have salvaged him? I guess my other questions would be: if Luke was that way the entire time, what would be the explanation for him chilling on an island during TFA, and what would stop the sequel trilogy from being five minutes long with an undeterred Luke Skywalker at maximum power? If you want to call "Kylo Ren kills him and sacrifices himself at the end" something "big". The point of introducing Snoke was the same point of introducing Khan in Into Darkness - JJ Abrams lacks ideas. A hideous Dark Lord on a hologram is the least inspired Big Bad he could have gone with, and i f you'd asked me after seeing TLJ for the first time, I would have said Snoke was a deliberate red-herring from the start. A sequel needs to spice things up, especially a seventh one, and that's what Johnson did. Had JJ made the second chapter, Snoke probably wouldn't have done much more in it - after all, the Emperor didn't in Empire. I know I'd call it a very fine continuation. You say he had to "work around" what Johnson did, and yet he *builds* on those things in very satisfying ways including Rey's lack of nepotism. It certainly feels like more of a sequel to TLJ than TFA, whereas TRoS seems to border on ignoring TLJ entirely. She gets her ass handed to her by Snoke and fails her primary objective. Her biggest accomplishments were a. accidentally surviving her second duel against Kylo and b. moving rocks. Not OP by my standard. Would you say she's better written in TFA or TLJ?
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Post by judgejosephdredd on Jan 12, 2021 6:22:34 GMT
No, fans wanted a Luke Skywalker who was a wise old man who despite the many challenges he had faced and was standing in front of remains loyal to his purpose and friends, and if he had to go at least go out in a blaze of glory that reminds everyone how well he lives up to his legend. They didn't want a Luke Skywalker who was a quitter who didn't anything more to do with the Jedi or the force or even his friends and family, who tried to terminate his own nephew while they were resting, turn his back on Rey for real, and kick the bucket after projecting himself like Loki. In that case, why bother having Snoke at all then? Abrams was clearly setting them up for something big with The Force Awakens, and Johnson killed him off in what is supposed to be the very middle section of a three part saga. It would've been different if he was not built up as such a huge powerful being and just a random guy barking orders, but clearly Abrams and Johnson didn't see eye to eye there, and we can all blame that on Kennedy for not being a good manager. JJ Abrams had mapped out a trilogy with other writers with the intention of co-writing and directing The Force Awakens but laying out certain plot beats and arcs that the coming writers and directors had to follow but work around to still give their own kind of flavor to it. Johnson pretty much took what was laid out and threw most if not everything in the trash and decided to tell a story that acted not just as a sequel but even a finale of sorts, this wouldn't had happened if Kathleen Kennedy had a better grasp of storytelling and what is better for the property but instead she took much of a liking to Johnson's personality and didn't stand in their way. The result? A film that strongly divided consumers, made longtime fans of the property more questionable of Disney's handling of the franchise, and pretty much stomped out whatever plans Kennedy had going forward. Now with the success of The Mandalorian, most of the franchise's future is on Disney+ and Kennedy is only really overseeing two or three upcoming Star Wars productions as extensively as she used to, all others will be looking more towards Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni for guidance. Actually, Trevorrow tried his best to work around The Last Jedi, many have called his script titled Duel of the Fates a very fine continuation that would've wrapped up the whole Skywalker saga good enough but Trevorrow didn't see eye to eye with Kennedy in the end. Because she was still pretty OP and felt written as more of a concept than as a character. It's just a pretty lame scene all around, Leia deserved a better scene to show off her force abilities and Carrie Fisher(RIP) deserved better written scenes. Hey, I'm just going of what you said about Mandalorian where he wasn't exactly those things either. If you ask me, few characters in the saga went out on a bigger blaze of glory than Luke. If it wasn't a projection, would that have salvaged him? I guess my other questions would be: if Luke was that way the entire time, what would be the explanation for him chilling on an island during TFA, and what would stop the sequel trilogy from being five minutes long with an undeterred Luke Skywalker at maximum power? If you want to call "Kylo Ren kills him and sacrifices himself at the end" something "big". The point of introducing Snoke was the same point of introducing Khan in Into Darkness - JJ Abrams lacks ideas. A hideous Dark Lord on a hologram is the least inspired Big Bad he could have gone with, and i f you'd asked me after seeing TLJ for the first time, I would have said Snoke was a deliberate red-herring from the start. A sequel needs to spice things up, especially a seventh one, and that's what Johnson did. Had JJ made the second chapter, Snoke probably wouldn't have done much more in it - after all, the Emperor didn't in Empire. I know I'd call it a very fine continuation. You say he had to "work around" what Johnson did, and yet he *builds* on those things in very satisfying ways including Rey's lack of nepotism. It certainly feels like more of a sequel to TLJ than TFA, whereas TRoS seems to border on ignoring TLJ entirely. She gets her ass handed to her by Snoke and fails her primary objective. Her biggest accomplishments were a. accidentally surviving her second duel against Kylo and b. moving rocks. Not OP by my standard. Would you say she's better written in TFA or TLJ? Because I am referring to what an older Luke Skywalker would've been preferred by the majority of the fans, at the end of season 2 of The Mandalorian is coming off a few years after Return of the Jedi. The use of force projection seemed like a cheap trick in attempt to seem clever on Johnson's part, having Luke physically there would've made a stronger impact on the storytelling. Clearly, as mentioned before, Abrams and others had a different plan for Luke and Trevorrow was totally on board with steering towards that direction, but Johnson had other ideas. Snoke was definitely not an inspired creation on Abrams' part, but they could have molded him into something great, the set up to do so was there but Johnson decided to have him be sliced into two which certainly was a shocking and bold move to make, but in the grander scheme of things didn't work for the trilogy's favor. "Pretty" but not absolutely OP. To be honest Rey is just not a very well-written character to begin with, there could've been some really interesting directions to take her in after The Force Awakens but they dropped the ball.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jan 12, 2021 21:14:45 GMT
Hey, I'm just going of what you said about Mandalorian where he wasn't exactly those things either. If you ask me, few characters in the saga went out on a bigger blaze of glory than Luke. If it wasn't a projection, would that have salvaged him? I guess my other questions would be: if Luke was that way the entire time, what would be the explanation for him chilling on an island during TFA, and what would stop the sequel trilogy from being five minutes long with an undeterred Luke Skywalker at maximum power? If you want to call "Kylo Ren kills him and sacrifices himself at the end" something "big". The point of introducing Snoke was the same point of introducing Khan in Into Darkness - JJ Abrams lacks ideas. A hideous Dark Lord on a hologram is the least inspired Big Bad he could have gone with, and i f you'd asked me after seeing TLJ for the first time, I would have said Snoke was a deliberate red-herring from the start. A sequel needs to spice things up, especially a seventh one, and that's what Johnson did. Had JJ made the second chapter, Snoke probably wouldn't have done much more in it - after all, the Emperor didn't in Empire. I know I'd call it a very fine continuation. You say he had to "work around" what Johnson did, and yet he *builds* on those things in very satisfying ways including Rey's lack of nepotism. It certainly feels like more of a sequel to TLJ than TFA, whereas TRoS seems to border on ignoring TLJ entirely. She gets her ass handed to her by Snoke and fails her primary objective. Her biggest accomplishments were a. accidentally surviving her second duel against Kylo and b. moving rocks. Not OP by my standard. Would you say she's better written in TFA or TLJ? Because I am referring to what an older Luke Skywalker would've been preferred by the majority of the fans, at the end of season 2 of The Mandalorian is coming off a few years after Return of the Jedi. The use of force projection seemed like a cheap trick in attempt to seem clever on Johnson's part, having Luke physically there would've made a stronger impact on the storytelling. Clearly, as mentioned before, Abrams and others had a different plan for Luke and Trevorrow was totally on board with steering towards that direction, but Johnson had other ideas. Snoke was definitely not an inspired creation on Abrams' part, but they could have molded him into something great, the set up to do so was there but Johnson decided to have him be sliced into two which certainly was a shocking and bold move to make, but in the grander scheme of things didn't work for the trilogy's favor. "Pretty" but not absolutely OP. To be honest Rey is just not a very well-written character to begin with, there could've been some really interesting directions to take her in after The Force Awakens but they dropped the ball. Based on what, speculation from the SW board? He wrote an entire script around the idea of Luke as a force ghost and even had concept art of it, so it doesn't seem like that part troubled him too much. Indeed, Mandalorian is only a few years after RotJ, so I don't think it's comparable to TLJ. TLJ is aware he was once an idealist collecting padawans, there isn't a contradiction. And I don't think Luke projecting makes a huge difference storytelling-wise. I think the point, more so than Rian being clever, was to demonstrate just how powerful Luke was. It was a selfless sacrifice of his life either way, but this one was at least different from other such scenes. Thanos excepted [arguably], there aren't too many big CGI bosses I can think of that were moulded into greatness. Considering TLJ did use Snoke more, were you digging him in it pre-bisection? And yes, killing Snoke ended up being pointless and a backfire, but that's because Abrams and Kennedy didn't follow through on Kylo as Big Bad. Fangirls and Skywalker bloodline eugenicists needed that redemption arc too much I guess. Had Trevorrow made his episode 9, you'd have a more coherent trilogy. But to blame TLJ for TRoS chickening out is not my definition of fair. Well, TLJ is still a sequel to a movie that made her quite powered to begin with, so, short of amnesia, she'd still have to be to an extent. My credit to Johnson for giving her more flaws and weaknesses. I was actually asking about Leia on that last part, but I guess it was worth asking about Rey as well. What direction should Rey have been taken?
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