|
|
Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 20, 2021 18:09:28 GMT
2007, lost to the Patriots. Went 14-2 in 2006, lost in the divisional round to the Patriots. Patriots. Patriots. Patriots, patriots. Patriots. Ok, the self-parody is now more obnoxious than the real me, I'll move on. I'm not sure if he's Hall of Fame worthy. Someone once said, "Can the story of [insert sport] be told without including this player?" is a good criteria for HOF candidacy. By that measure, I'd say Rivers doesn't make it. It's an interesting discussion. I think a compelling argument can easily be made that he was the best of the 2004 class but will almost certainly end up the less remembered, with the smaller market and lack of playoff success. In the 00s you generally had Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers and Roethlisberger as the top QBs. I'd put Rivers over Ben. He always put up good in the regular season, but always ultimately disappointed. And they had such a stacked team in those years. He had hall of famers at tight end and running back and I'd say they regularly underperformed. You could say Roethlisberger had better defenses, but I'd say the other teams that selected QBs in the first round of '04 were better ultimately better off. But I also just hate his face. So take that for what it's worth. |
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 20, 2021 18:18:19 GMT
2007, lost to the Patriots. Went 14-2 in 2006, lost in the divisional round to the Patriots. Patriots. Patriots. Patriots, patriots. Patriots. Ok, the self-parody is now more obnoxious than the real me, I'll move on. I'm not sure if he's Hall of Fame worthy. Someone once said, "Can the story of [insert sport] be told without including this player?" is a good criteria for HOF candidacy. By that measure, I'd say Rivers doesn't make it. It's an interesting discussion. I think a compelling argument can easily be made that he was the best of the 2004 class but will almost certainly end up the less remembered, with the smaller market and lack of playoff success. In the 00s you generally had Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers and Roethlisberger as the top QBs. I'd put Rivers over Ben. I'd agree with you, but Big Ben playing for the Steelers and winning two rings is tough to overcome. Not that it has to be either or, but as a comparison that argument will always be skewed toward Roethlisberger.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdm3 on Jan 20, 2021 18:34:22 GMT
It's an interesting discussion. I think a compelling argument can easily be made that he was the best of the 2004 class but will almost certainly end up the less remembered, with the smaller market and lack of playoff success. In the 00s you generally had Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers and Roethlisberger as the top QBs. I'd put Rivers over Ben. I'd agree with you, but Big Ben playing for the Steelers and winning two rings is tough to overcome. Not that it has to be either or, but as a comparison that argument will always be skewed toward Roethlisberger. I get it, and certainly this is the stuff that will live on in the eyes of history - but Ben sucked in SB 40 and had one of the all-time great defenses in 2008. What could've happened if the Chargers' kicker (Kaeding?) had made his kicks in 2006 and 2009? Well, they would've lost to the Colts, but that's not the point... He played that 2007 AFC title game with a torn ACL, didn't he? Pretty legendary on his part.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 20, 2021 18:42:30 GMT
I'd agree with you, but Big Ben playing for the Steelers and winning two rings is tough to overcome. Not that it has to be either or, but as a comparison that argument will always be skewed toward Roethlisberger. I get it, and certainly this is the stuff that will live on in the eyes of history - but Ben sucked in SB 40 and had one of the all-time great defenses in 2008. What could've happened if the Chargers' kicker (Kaeding?) had made his kicks in 2006 and 2009? Well, they would've lost to the Colts, but that's not the point... He played that 2007 AFC title game with a torn ACL, didn't he? Pretty legendary on his part. And if Troy Brown hadn't bailed out Lord Brady in that divisional round game in 2006, it wouldn't have come down to a FG attempt and you'd have more ammunition against Brady.
|
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Jan 20, 2021 19:05:05 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage.
But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories.
Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no.
What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's?
Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career.
Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins.
Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece.
So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it.
B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluerisk on Jan 20, 2021 19:09:14 GMT
I'm kinda surprised. Of the old guys still hanging on he kinda seemed like the one who still had the most ability left. He actually had a good year. Brady vs Rivers this year, and this doesn't include the postseason. Granted Brady had more weapons. www.fantasypros.com/nfl/stats/tom-brady-philip-rivers.php He had more weapons, yes, but he did something for it: he convinced Gronk to return or was able to integrate Antonia Brown against his history, and against the wishes of his own coach. Character and leadership are also things I would factor in - but this is a very personal opinion - as far as I know it is even against the principles how a HOF is elected. Only his performance on the filed, but not his character off the field. Still: Scenes like this are why I respect Brady so much.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluerisk on Jan 20, 2021 19:19:11 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins. Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece. So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. I tend to agree with you. And yet, was he ever in a roster that had the quality to be a SB contender? But live is not fair as we all know. I would tend to a no, but I'm lucky that I don't have to make this decision. One reason why I don't like the draft: It forces the best players of a generation to play for teams like the Bengals, Jaguars or Jets...or the Texans (=> Watson is said to be in an open rebellion), with a management that burns their best years, because they are unable, unwilling or just don't care to do their part of the job.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdm3 on Jan 20, 2021 19:21:05 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins.
Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece.So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. It's almost as though wins don't tell you the whole story about individual players?
|
|
|
|
Post by bluerisk on Jan 20, 2021 19:21:50 GMT
It's fitting that Rivers retires the same year as Brees. Roethlisberger might hang them up this year too. And maybe Brady if the Bucs win it all. Crazy. Brady won't resign even if he wins it. He will be carried off the field...
|
|
|
|
Post by NJtoTX on Jan 20, 2021 19:24:22 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins. Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece. So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. He got to 1 conference championship where he had no TDs and 2 picks in a 20-12 loss. 5-7 playoff record with 59.3% completions, 16 TDs, 10 picks 2 lost fumbles. 21-46 rushing w. 1 TD, so no help there.
|
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Jan 20, 2021 19:32:38 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins. Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece. So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. I tend to agree with you. And yet, was he ever in a roster that had the quality to be a SB contender? But live is not fair as we all know. I would tend to a no, but I'm lucky that I don't have to make this decision. One reason why I don't like the draft: It forces the best players of a generation to play for teams like the Bengals, Jaguars or Jets...or the Texans (=> Watson is said to be in an open rebellion), with a management that burns their best years, because they are unable, unwilling or just don't care to do their part of the job. I won't vigorously object if he does get in. There were teams in the Rivers-Tomlinson-Gates-Merriman years that were great, but one of the losses to New England in the playoffs wasn't his fault, for sure. Does he win a Super Bowl if he is with the Giants or Steelers? I tend to think so - - but that becomes the "life's not fair" part.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 20, 2021 19:35:54 GMT
He had more weapons, yes, but he did something for it: he convinced Gronk to return or was able to integrate Antonia Brown against his history, and against the wishes of his own coach. Character and leadership are also things I would factor in - but this is a very personal opinion - as far as I know it is even against the principles how a HOF is elected. Only his performance on the filed, but not his character off the field. Still: Scenes like this are why I respect Brady so much. - Never said a bad word about Goodell publicly during or after Deflategate. - Compartmentalized his mother going through chemo that same season, still won the Super Bowl. - Was offered a deal by the NFL to throw two Pats employees under the bus in order to avoid Deflategate suspension, refused to do it because he knew they did nothing wrong. (The NFL made the Pats fire those guys anyway.) - Never made excuses for losing, to this day says Belichick is the greatest coach of all time despite Belichick going out of his way to try to make himself look responsible for Brady's success. - Teammates credit him for giving pre-game speeches that mention everyone on the roster by name and how they contributed to the team's success - Always took less money to help the team win -Congratulated Eli Manning on his career when he retired, joking that he wished Eli never won any Super Bowls And those are just a few examples. In every mid-week and postgame presser over a roughly 20 year period, he was always respectful of his opponents, the media, etc. The guy is a winner and a class act, period.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 20, 2021 19:40:40 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins. Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece. So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. I tend to agree with you. And yet, was he ever in a roster that had the quality to be a SB contender? But live is not fair as we all know. I would tend to a no, but I'm lucky that I don't have to make this decision. One reason why I don't like the draft: It forces the best players of a generation to play for teams like the Bengals, Jaguars or Jets...or the Texans (=> Watson is said to be in an open rebellion), with a management that burns their best years, because they are unable, unwilling or just don't care to do their part of the job. But that’s all cyclical. The Chiefs were lousy for years. The Rams and 49ers have been up and down. How were the Saints prior to the arrival of Brees? Unless you’re the Lions bad teams eventually get good and good teams eventually get worse. |
|
|
|
Post by tristramshandy on Jan 20, 2021 19:44:29 GMT
Right now he's 5th all-time in touchdowns and yardage. But by the time he's eligible to be voted in, there is a very good chance that Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford will be ahead of him in both categories. Are Ryan and Stafford Hall of Famers? Hell no. What are Rivers' accomplishments that are greater than Ryan's and Stafford's? Rivers has 5 playoff wins in his career. Mark Rypien has 5 playoff wins. So does Jake Delhomme, Craig Morton, Danny White, and Trent Dilfer. Mahomes already has five playoff wins.
Mark Sanchez and Colin Kaepernick have 4 apiece.So, A, he's not ahead of Roethlisberger. Just stop it. B, he's Hall of Very Good. Can't have zero Super Bowl appearances and numbers worse than Ryan and Stafford and get into the Hall. It's almost as though wins don't tell you the whole story about individual players? Does it say you're great? Maybe he's the anti-Joe Flacco, a guy where playoff victories doesn't tell the proper tale. Of the quarterbacks who played in/since 1980, the only ones in the Hall of Fame with fewer playoff wins than Rivers are Dan Fouts and Warren Moon. And Fouts was playing when only five teams made the playoffs.
|
|
|
|
Post by hi224 on Jan 20, 2021 19:49:29 GMT
always liked his crazy ass.
|
|
|
|
Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 20, 2021 19:58:26 GMT
I dont understand where the narrative that he didn't have good enough talent around him came from. It's nuts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jan 20, 2021 20:00:34 GMT
always liked his crazy ass. 
|
|
|
|
Post by masterofallgoons on Jan 20, 2021 20:07:59 GMT
always liked his crazy ass. A perfect likeness. |
|
|
|
Post by NJtoTX on Jan 20, 2021 20:57:36 GMT
I dont understand where the narrative that he didn't have good enough talent around him came from. It's nuts. Chargers didn't have all that many all-pros, and few around 2014. Gates, Tomlinson, Merriman, Dielman, Gordon, McNeill, Osgood, Neil, Jamal Williams, V. Jackson, Weddle, R. Matthews, Stuckey, Verett, Hayward, K.Allen, Ingram, Bosa, a few others.
|
|
|
|
Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jan 20, 2021 21:04:23 GMT
I dont understand where the narrative that he didn't have good enough talent around him came from. It's nuts. Chargers didn't have all that many all-pros, and few around 2014. Gates, Tomlinson, Merriman, Dielman, Gordon, McNeill, Osgood, Neil, Jamal Williams, V. Jackson, Weddle, R. Matthews, Stuckey, Verett, Hayward, K.Allen, Ingram, Bosa, a few others. That’s not many? |
|
