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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 2:39:35 GMT
I thnk the time we're living in offers great opportunities for filmmakers, like those not seen since the governmental and societal restrictions rampant in the 1950s conversely cultivated a thirst for creative freedom in the 1960s. When I think of America's great contributions to the cinematic form, the musical is a far tougher sell, yet the western has evolved to be filmed outdoors, socially distanced and pulsing with political fervour.
Westerns were so expensive to make back in the 1970s, both John Carpenter ('Assault On Precinct 13') and Wes Craven ('The Hills Have Eyes', future style) changed course due to economics. Walter Hill was one director who managed to persevere and get things done, but he never got the backing he deserved after making a masterpiece ('The Long Riders'), which crippled his genre output (he did better in the crime genre moving forward). Hill also got to study under a master in Sam Peckinpah.
Even Kevin Costner faces these kinds of problems. But today, camera equipment is light, mobile and relatively cheap to hire, locations are frequently sold to the highest bidder, and there's a thirst for historical subtexts in volatile, highly politicised (and polarised) times.
Is there a filmmaker around today you can see with the wherewithal to resurrect this great cinematic genre?
Thanks!
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 24, 2021 2:41:44 GMT
By merging with with other genres? I would love to see more horror westerns.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 2:45:14 GMT
By merging with with other genres? I would love to see more horror westerns. Me too! I grew up with low budget movies like 'Near Dark' (1987), 'Sundown : The Vampire In Retreat' (1989) and 'Into The Badlands' (1991), but they remained rarities. Between 'Westworld' (1973) and 'Vampires' (1998) lay a gaping chasm that proved impossible to fill.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jan 24, 2021 2:47:05 GMT
By merging with with other genres? I would love to see more horror westerns. Me too! I grew up with low budget movies like 'Near Dark' (1987), 'Sundown : The Vampire In Retreat' (1989) and 'Into The Badlands' (1991), but they remained rarities. Between 'Westworld' (1973) and 'Vampires' (1998) lay a gaping chasm that proved impossible to fill. Have you watched Bone Tomahawk? I've heard goo things about that one.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 2:48:30 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean.
You mean a director who makes mostly or many westerns, like John Ford?
I figured westerns stopped being a big deal because of the culture shift around the late 1960s/early 1970s.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 2:52:45 GMT
Me too! I grew up with low budget movies like 'Near Dark' (1987), 'Sundown : The Vampire In Retreat' (1989) and 'Into The Badlands' (1991), but they remained rarities. Between 'Westworld' (1973) and 'Vampires' (1998) lay a gaping chasm that proved impossible to fill. Have you watched Bone Tomahawk? I've heard goo things about that one. I have! It's definitely worth seeing, takes a degree of patience as it's also a study in western life. I really like the director S. Craig Zahler's muscular crime film 'Brawl In Cell Block 99' (2017).
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 2:56:00 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean. You mean a director who makes mostly or many westerns, like John Ford? I figured westerns stopped being a big deal because of the culture shift around the late 1960s/early 1970s. Exactly. Like John Ford. Or, like Martin Scorsese is to crime films today, but to the western (Scorsese being a massive fan of Ford's westerns). Great genre filmmakers, to my mind, tend to follow their heart, and there are many who specialise in one genre in particular (doesn't prohibit you from working in any other genre, obviously).
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 2:58:02 GMT
I think the western genre is better when the movies are spaced out more, like they are these days.
The genre has already had a sort of small resurgence in the past 12 years.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 3:02:58 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean. You mean a director who makes mostly or many westerns, like John Ford? I figured westerns stopped being a big deal because of the culture shift around the late 1960s/early 1970s. Exactly. Like John Ford. Or, like Martin Scorsese is to crime films today, but to the western (Scorsese being a massive fan of Ford's westerns). Great genre filmmakers, to my mind, tend to follow their heart, and there are many who specialise in one genre in particular (doesn't prohibit you from working in any other genre, obviously). I stand by that there isn't a big demand for westerns anymore and that is why there aren't many made these days. I like the genre, but it isn't one of my favorites. Many of them tend to feel very similar because they have to take place in a specific area of the U.S. during a specific time. There isn't a huge amount of leeway within the genre imo. Most of the westerns made in past 20 years are just rehashes of many other westerns from the past.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 3:14:03 GMT
Here is a list of westerns from the past 10 years that are worthwhile.
Meek's Cutoff True Grit Django Unchained Bone Tomahawk Slow West The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun Forsaken The Magnificent Seven In a Valley of Violence Brimstone Hostiles The Ballad of Lefty Brown The Ballad of Buster Scruggs The Sisters Brothers Never Grow Old News of the World
That is a better line-up of westerns than the 2 decades prior imo.
1996-2002 was especially pathetic for the genre.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 3:36:04 GMT
Here is a list of westerns from the past 10 years that are worthwhile. Meek's Cutoff True Grit Django Unchained Bone Tomahawk Slow West The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun Forsaken The Magnificent Seven In a Valley of Violence Brimstone Hostiles The Ballad of Lefty Brown The Ballad of Buster Scruggs The Sisters Brothers Never Grow Old News of the World That is a better line-up of westerns than the 2 decades prior imo. 1996-2002 was especially pathetic for the genre. Quentin Tarantino is interesting to me personally as I think, like Carpenter, Craven, Hill et al, he wanted to make an old school western in many ways, as in technical, and shot on film. My favourite French filmmaker, Jean Renoir, said he enjoyed watching a pair of shifty, thrifty b-westerns for visual and sonic invention more than the typical bloated, static-camera, shot at eye-level epic (with great "production values") he saw in Hollywood as he felt filmmakers were less constrained. Scorsese is a scholar of such things which is why he spends so much time talking up filmmakers from Allan Dwan and William Wellman, to Budd Boetticher and Delmer Daves.
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gw
Junior Member
@gw
Posts: 1,520
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Post by gw on Jan 24, 2021 3:41:34 GMT
They should make some westerns from a Native American perspective. Not that they haven't made one or two in the past but a good Native American western with Native American actors for the leads would be an interesting change of perspective. Plus that way we'd get more than one side to the story.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 3:45:17 GMT
They should make some westerns from a Native American perspective. Not that they haven't made one or two in the past but a good Native American western with Native American actors for the leads would be an interesting change of perspective. Plus that way we'd get more than one side to the story. Yes, some of my favourite actors derided the idea of Americanising their marquee names and stealing even roles from native Americans. It's like Jack Palance said, just once it would have been great to see the indians shoot the shit out of Gary Cooper and John Wayne.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 4:38:14 GMT
Here is a list of westerns from the past 10 years that are worthwhile. Meek's Cutoff True Grit Django Unchained Bone Tomahawk Slow West The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun Forsaken The Magnificent Seven In a Valley of Violence Brimstone Hostiles The Ballad of Lefty Brown The Ballad of Buster Scruggs The Sisters Brothers Never Grow Old News of the World That is a better line-up of westerns than the 2 decades prior imo. 1996-2002 was especially pathetic for the genre. Quentin Tarantino is interesting to me personally as I think, like Carpenter, Craven, Hill et al, he wanted to make an old school western in many ways, as in technical, and shot on film. My favourite French filmmaker, Jean Renoir, said he enjoyed watching a pair of shifty, thrifty b-westerns for visual and sonic invention more than the typical bloated, static-camera, shot at eye-level epic (with great "production values") he saw in Hollywood as he felt filmmakers were less constrained. Scorsese is a scholar of such things which is why he spends so much time talking up filmmakers from Allan Dwan and William Wellman, to Budd Boetticher and Delmer Daves. You are more interested in this stuff than me and you like Walter Hill and Wes Craven a lot more than me. Then again, most film fans seem to. I just don't connect with westerns and the filmmakers you are talking about in the way you do.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 4:47:06 GMT
Quentin Tarantino is interesting to me personally as I think, like Carpenter, Craven, Hill et al, he wanted to make an old school western in many ways, as in technical, and shot on film. My favourite French filmmaker, Jean Renoir, said he enjoyed watching a pair of shifty, thrifty b-westerns for visual and sonic invention more than the typical bloated, static-camera, shot at eye-level epic (with great "production values") he saw in Hollywood as he felt filmmakers were less constrained. Scorsese is a scholar of such things which is why he spends so much time talking up filmmakers from Allan Dwan and William Wellman, to Budd Boetticher and Delmer Daves. You are more interested in this stuff than me and you like Walter Hill and Wes Craven a lot more than me. Then again, most film fans seem to. I don't know.
I can say I'm happy to have these films on dvd, imperfect as they are, as am I (and I enjoyed some others you have listed) :
Django Unchained The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun In a Valley of Violence
That is all. Thank you.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 4:52:34 GMT
You are more interested in this stuff than me and you like Walter Hill and Wes Craven a lot more than me. Then again, most film fans seem to. I don't know.
I can say I'm happy to have these films on dvd, imperfect as they are, as am I (and I enjoyed some others you have listed) :
Django Unchained The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun In a Valley of Violence
That is all. Thank you.
I meant to the degree that you do. Like when you make those posts about actors and stuff. You are an interesting person and I like that. Just a lot different than me. My favorite Walter Hill movies are 48 Hours and Southern Comfort. The rest I can take or leave.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 4:58:41 GMT
I don't know.
I can say I'm happy to have these films on dvd, imperfect as they are, as am I (and I enjoyed some others you have listed) :
Django Unchained The Hateful Eight Jane Got a Gun In a Valley of Violence
That is all. Thank you.
I meant to the degree that you do. Like when you make those posts about actors and stuff. You are an interesting person and I like that. Just a lot different than me. My favorite Walter Hill movies are 48 Hours and Southern Comfort. The rest I can take or leave. That's the difference,. I rarely go wrong with Walter Hill, if ever. The rest I'd like to leave immediately.
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 5:03:52 GMT
I meant to the degree that you do. Like when you make those posts about actors and stuff. You are an interesting person and I like that. Just a lot different than me. My favorite Walter Hill movies are 48 Hours and Southern Comfort. The rest I can take or leave. That's the difference,. I rarely go wrong with Walter Hill, if ever. The rest I'd like to leave immediately. A lot of people seem to like his movies. I am the odd one out in this case. I am a fan John Ford and Anthony Mann and the more classic-era western directors. I see Walter Hill as a sort of discount Sam Peckinpah.
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Post by petrolino on Jan 24, 2021 5:12:51 GMT
That's the difference,. I rarely go wrong with Walter Hill, if ever. The rest I'd like to leave immediately. A lot of people seem to like his movies. I am the odd one out in this case. I am a fan John Ford and Anthony Mann and the more classic-era western directors. I see Walter Hill as a sort of discount Sam Peckinpah. John Ford and Anthony Mann. Would you not like to see the directorial like operational in America today?
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Post by moviemouth on Jan 24, 2021 5:33:18 GMT
A lot of people seem to like his movies. I am the odd one out in this case. I am a fan John Ford and Anthony Mann and the more classic-era western directors. I see Walter Hill as a sort of discount Sam Peckinpah. John Ford and Anthony Mann. Would you not like to see the directorial like operational in America today? Perhaps, but I don't think that is likely. The time of filmmakers like that is long gone and there are plenty of old movies that I haven't seen yet. I spend more time watching old movies than I do new movies these days and there is a vast amount of them to watch. I don't mind this at all.
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