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Post by novastar6 on Feb 2, 2021 0:00:03 GMT
Can we talk about this movie?
Just got done seeing it in full for the first time. Back when everything was still on VHS, I bought a copy for $1 and only saw part of it, watching it again I realized I'd actually watched the whole first hour, but didn't remember much except for Gluttony and Sloth.
I have a few comments but I'll let everybody else get their 2 cents in first.
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Post by James on Feb 2, 2021 1:06:27 GMT
Great thriller. Probably Fincher’s best movie.
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Post by wmcclain on Feb 2, 2021 2:16:11 GMT
Se7en (1995), directed by David Fincher. I have problems with this sort of film, perhaps because I don't know how to classify it. It is a serial killer fantasy set in what looks like the real world. Real in that it is not about demonic possession or super-powers. Fantasy in that this really doesn't happen: philosopher detective confronts super-genius psycho who perpetrates an impossibly complicated configuration of outrages. For all its edginess it employs standard police story clichés: burned out detective in his last week is saddled with brash young hotshot. It is one of Morgan Freeman's better roles. Points for giving him a switchblade, and that old-style hat and raincoat. The City is entirely evil here, with no redeeming features, apart from its large library. Where you can look up evil things. I'm not getting much meaning from this exercise, apart from Freeman's cool reason besting Pitt's emotion. Thoughts on celebrity, degeneracy of modern life, the deadly sins: not so much. Notes: - Shouldn't the SWAT team be wearing helmets?
- 2000 notebooks at 250 pages each is half a million pages.
- Is Pitt using some sort of bent-wrist hold on his weapon at the end? It looks like an illustration from the Crackhead Handbook.
Howard Shore score, nicely integrated into the sound design. Available on Blu-ray.
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Post by Captain Spencer on Feb 2, 2021 3:43:00 GMT
It's rare when Hollywood makes a film that is so grim to this extent. David Fincher has created a universe that is oppressive, dark, unfriendly, antisocial, and apathetic. Not since Hannibal Lecter has there been such an intellectual serial killer, and Kevin Spacey was frighteningly brilliant. Definitely not for the squeamish.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 2, 2021 3:44:59 GMT
It's rare when Hollywood makes a film that is so grim to this extent. David Fincher has created a universe that is oppressive, dark, unfriendly, antisocial, and apathetic. Not since Hannibal Lecter has there been such an intellectual serial killer, and Kevin Spacey was frighteningly brilliant. Definitely not for the squeamish.
I imagine for its time it was VERY excruciating, and you still get hints of that watching it now, but really, I don't think it's much different from most cop dramas on TV now.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 2, 2021 3:54:14 GMT
Also can we admit how brilliant it is this IS such an excruciating movie to watch and yet we don't ever 'see' anything, we never see any of the murders committed, only the aftermath, which in fact is how this movie is rated on DVD. Remember when it was just V, S, L, D? Now it's rated for 'graphic afterviews of killings'...who comes up with this stuff?
Hitchcock said there's no terror in the bang, only the anticipation of it, in this case it's the aftermath that leaves people squirming in their seats.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 2, 2021 15:58:00 GMT
I attempted to re-watch this a couple of months ago. I never liked it the first time I saw it. I just couldn't get into the vibe of it and ended up fast forwarding after 30mins. Had to put on Copycat - 95' from the same year which appears to have flown under the radar, though far superior IMHO.
Never heard of it, might have to look into it.
I had the opposite reaction, as soon as it started I had the sense of I wish I could've seen this in the theater on the big screen, I know all movies start there, but this one just felt like it BELONGED there.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 2, 2021 18:13:24 GMT
Se7en (1995), directed by David Fincher. I have problems with this sort of film, perhaps because I don't know how to classify it. It is a serial killer fantasy set in what looks like the real world. Real in that it is not about demonic possession or super-powers. Fantasy in that this really doesn't happen: philosopher detective confronts super-genius psycho who perpetrates an impossibly complicated configuration of outrages. For all its edginess it employs standard police story clichés: burned out detective in his last week is saddled with brash young hotshot. It is one of Morgan Freeman's better roles. Points for giving him a switchblade, and that old-style hat and raincoat. The City is entirely evil here, with no redeeming features, apart from its large library. Where you can look up evil things. I'm not getting much meaning from this exercise, apart from Freeman's cool reason besting Pitt's emotion. Thoughts on celebrity, degeneracy of modern life, the deadly sins: not so much. Notes: - Shouldn't the SWAT team be wearing helmets?
- 2000 notebooks at 250 pages each is half a million pages.
- Is Pitt using some sort of bent-wrist hold on his weapon at the end? It looks like an illustration from the Crackhead Handbook.
I agree it has problems, but not for the same reason.
They never really dwell on the fact that John Doe has spent at least, definitely more than but has at least executed his plan into action for a year, we know this from the Sloth victim, he's been tied to the bed for a year, we can presume it was very early on into that year that he cut Sloth's hand off to smear the prints in his attorney's office behind the painting. With a little different writing, Somerset would've tried to figure out what was going on at that time when John Doe first started to carry out his plans.
So, he's had this planned for a year, but Mills, who JUST transferred there that week, who he fixates on and becomes envious of his life. What was his plan before Mills arrived? He's still already carrying this out, who would his fixation and respect go to then?
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Post by sjg on Feb 2, 2021 18:54:32 GMT
Se7en is a great film. One of my very few 10/10's. Great characters with great performances from the actors playing them with great sound and cinematography. The film for me is so immersive I've never questioned the intricacies behind John Doe's actions and i even now i don't feel like i want to in case i spoil it. It's one of the few films I've re-watched more than once.
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Post by quagsjonny on Feb 6, 2021 3:28:23 GMT
Watched this in theater on a high school double date. Did not know Pitt, Spacey or even Freeman. Just wow. First time I exited with a silent crowd! To be 16 again! We talked about a two hour film for five hours after... to be young:-)
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 6, 2021 6:21:23 GMT
It was shocking when I first watched it--I knew someone said he guessed the ending like within 15 minutes of the movie starting. I couldnt have done that.
I think they messed up the ending though. It would have been better if Pitt shot himself. Because then John Doe would realize he was right about how disappointing life is! That was what he was saying and you see Morgan Freman smiling because he agrees with him.
it would have been perfect. Instead, he gets exactly what he wanted.
It would not have changed Freeman's reaction. You could still have the same narration.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 8, 2021 21:57:05 GMT
It was shocking when I first watched it--I knew someone said he guessed the ending like within 15 minutes of the movie starting. I couldnt have done that. I think they messed up the ending though. It would have been better if Pitt shot himself. Because then John Doe would realize he was right about how disappointing life is! That was what he was saying and you see Morgan Freman smiling because he agrees with him. it would have been perfect. Instead, he gets exactly what he wanted. It would not have changed Freeman's reaction. You could still have the same narration.
I view the ending like the ending for Reservoir Dogs, you understand why they did it this way, but it doesn't mean you like it.
In theory your idea makes sense, but the thing going against Mills the entire movie is he's a hair trigger hothead, that was his greatest weakness.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 8, 2021 22:21:33 GMT
I view the ending like the ending for Reservoir Dogs, you understand why they did it this way, but it doesn't mean you like it.
In theory your idea makes sense, but the thing going against Mills the entire movie is he's a hair trigger hothead, that was his greatest weakness.
But that is exactly why I think it shouldn't have gone like that--too predictable. He was a hot head yes--but if John Doe was thwarted-it would have been so perfect an ending for his story. Plus it would have been so interesting-his reaction, especially with Somerset being somewhat in agreement with Doe's worldview. I don't think Brad Pitt sitting miserably in the police car, it just doesn't offer as much as if Spacey was in the car at the end being taken away.
His plan was too perfect. The irony would have been so good that he couldnt plan that reaction by Mills.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 8, 2021 23:26:37 GMT
I view the ending like the ending for Reservoir Dogs, you understand why they did it this way, but it doesn't mean you like it.
In theory your idea makes sense, but the thing going against Mills the entire movie is he's a hair trigger hothead, that was his greatest weakness.
But that is exactly why I think it shouldn't have gone like that--too predictable. He was a hot head yes--but if John Doe was thwarted-it would have been so perfect an ending for his story. Plus it would have been so interesting-his reaction, especially with Somerset being somewhat in agreement with Doe's worldview. I don't think Brad Pitt sitting miserably in the police car, it just doesn't offer as much as if Spacey was in the car at the end being taken away.
His plan was too perfect. The irony would have been so good that he couldnt plan that reaction by Mills.
Yeah it would've, unfortunately it's a safe bet there's not a guy in the world who wouldn't do to John Doe what Mills did if they were in his position.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 8, 2021 23:34:09 GMT
I view the ending like the ending for Reservoir Dogs, you understand why they did it this way, but it doesn't mean you like it.
In theory your idea makes sense, but the thing going against Mills the entire movie is he's a hair trigger hothead, that was his greatest weakness.
But that is exactly why I think it shouldn't have gone like that--too predictable. He was a hot head yes--but if John Doe was thwarted-it would have been so perfect an ending for his story. Plus it would have been so interesting-his reaction, especially with Somerset being somewhat in agreement with Doe's worldview. I don't think Brad Pitt sitting miserably in the police car, it just doesn't offer as much as if Spacey was in the car at the end being taken away.
His plan was too perfect. The irony would have been so good that he couldnt plan that reaction by Mills.
The bad guy losing is far more predictable. The perfect ending for the story is John Doe winning. It keeps with the dark tone of the movie.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 9, 2021 0:06:01 GMT
Yeah it would've, unfortunately it's a safe bet there's not a guy in the world who wouldn't do to John Doe what Mills did if they were in his position.
But why shoot him in the head exactly as he wants? Why not shoot in the groin? Or beat him to death?
It's the same thing The Usual Suspects AND Glengarry Glen Ross
That fucking Spacey he wins in every one!
He was the 90s go to guy for being an asshole yet winning.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 9, 2021 2:45:10 GMT
You know it's good when you can watch it more than once even though you know the surprise/twist ending which is a big part of the film. What's scary for me is that I saw this in the theater a quarter of a century ago. I'm getting old.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 10, 2021 0:19:04 GMT
Yeah it would've, unfortunately it's a safe bet there's not a guy in the world who wouldn't do to John Doe what Mills did if they were in his position.
But why shoot him in the head exactly as he wants? Why not shoot in the groin?
That one did cross my mind, poetic justice for the Lust killing.
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Post by theravenking on Feb 13, 2021 23:10:25 GMT
Just some random thoughts on Se7en:
I missed this at the theatre, but it was spoiled immediately after it came out. It became the "head in a box movie". Although personally I always felt that nothing equalled the scene when they find the sloth victim.
There is a deleted scene which was cut out at the request of test audiences, because apparently they deemed it too disturbing, although it only shows some blood in the sink where the vanity victim's face was cut up. Disappointing that they didn't insert this back into the home video version.
It also has one of the best foot chases in movie history when Somerset and Mills visit John Doe's apartment. I recall that in the original script there was only one or two lines describing the chase, the way it played out in the movie was mostly made up by Fincher.
People usually talk about the violent and disturbing parts, but one of my favourite scenes is the one where Somerset visits the library, great use of Bach's Air. I also really like the exchange between Somerset and Tracy in the diner when she confides in him that she is pregnant.
People like to point out that the movie is so bleak and has no humor, but the scene where Mills mispronounces the name Marquis De Sade always cracks me up.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 14, 2021 7:24:04 GMT
Just some random thoughts on Se7en: I missed this at the theatre, but it was spoiled immediately after it came out. It became the "head in a box movie". Although personally I always felt that nothing equalled the scene when they find the sloth victim. It was the reverse for me. I'd seen the Sloth scene on Bravo's(?) scariest movie scenes list, but didn't know what the final "twist" was. I assumed it was related to the identity of the killer and kept trying to figure it out, so I was kinda taken aback when it turned out to be literally just some guy (albeit played by Kevin Spacey) while the actual twist wasn't even really a twist, just a surprising thing that happened.
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