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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 19, 2021 0:59:00 GMT
Quit with the Trump worship, bugwit
I am not worshiping Trump, simpleton, but the current situation shows how foreign-owned media that is hostile to a population can warp things in order to attack a tribal authority figure with moderate positions. Trump, for better or worse, represented the European American--the founding demographic which is considered an enemy to the current power-grabbers. Russia experienced the same. It's a tribal war. I don't see how anything can prevent it. Moderation is not in the vocabulary of those pushing to change the society by mass immigration and sending employment to China etc.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 19, 2021 1:03:30 GMT
Quit with the Trump worship, bugwit
I am not worshiping Trump, simpleton, but the current situation shows how foreign-owned media that is hostile to a population can warp things in order to attack a tribal authority figure with moderate positions. Trump, for better or worse, represented the European American--the founding demographic which is considered an enemy to the current power-grabbers. Russia experienced the same. It's a tribal war. I don't see how anything can prevent it. Moderation is not in the vocabulary of those pushing to change the society by mass immigration and sending employment to China etc.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You can't make a comment without uttering the name of your Diving God.
Ooze back to the Politics Board
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 19, 2021 1:12:28 GMT
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You can't make a comment without uttering the name of your Diving God.
Ooze back to the Politics Board
The Trump era was very educational. It showed how history repeats itself. He was attacked as some kind of fascist maniac for positions like not wanting MS-13 running through the country, not wanting jobs taken from Middle America--not wanting the US involved in foreign wars. These were the public positions he talked about-and the media (which defended antifa and defunding police) called him an extremist. Yet 75 million voted for him. I think he failed on the grounds that he was too moderate for the forces against him--in his own government. If he had ousted them, then he would been called a tyrant and dictator or got the Stolypin treatment--most likely.
So, looking at history, why would the Czar have done any better? The idea that he could have stopped the maniacal bolsheviks by a few reforms is naive to the extreme.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 19, 2021 8:37:31 GMT
I have read about 30-40 books about Nicholas II and the Romanovs and its not as black as white as many people think. And i am not saying Nicholas II was a good leader. Oh I certainly wouldn't say it's black and white, nothing in history is. But Nicholas II seems to be one of the few figures in history whose faults are so often excused.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 19, 2021 9:02:17 GMT
And by 1937, maybe their education system improved-although it became extremely political, but then they had mass famine which is linked directly to the policies of this new government. It's not like famine didn't exist in the imperial period either. The USSR had one very bad famine but it wasn't solely the fault of the Soviet government. The country needed to industrialise and needed to trade with the capitalist countries to do so. Those countries refused every commodity offered apart from grain (even turning down gold). The Soviets took a chance that they would have a good harvest the next year and traded their grain. Unfortunately it was a bad harvest and famine resulted. Apart from that though, the evidence is the general populace consumed more food on average than they had in the imperial period. Educational reforms began as soon as the Civil War was over. 1937 just shows how much progress had been made over 15 years. By the 1980s, the literacy rate was 99.7%, much higher than the USA's today. Interestingly, literacy rates and life expectancy both plummeted after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Not too sure why you keep bringing Trump into this. Nicholas II was toppled by an alliance of centre-right liberals and left-wing groups in the February Revolution. If he had allowed democratic concessions, it's unlikely that the liberals would have sided with the left-wing groups against him. Many of them just wanted a constitutional monarchy as the UK had rather than a radical change.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 19, 2021 15:16:36 GMT
It's not like famine didn't exist in the imperial period either. The USSR had one very bad famine but it wasn't solely the fault of the Soviet government. They lied to the outside world and to their own people (but I think it is correct to say that the government was not really Russian--Solzhenitsyn said communism was not a Russian project). They wanted to present the idea that communism was awesome---that was their primary goal. At the time the famine was happening--and long after they were putting citizens in prison for disagreeing with the government they were making films about racial tolerance. CIRCUS 1936.
Priorities. They were making films about how awful the US was. And the KGB defector Bezmenov said that in the 1980s when Russians went to the US for a visit they were shocked how much America had on store shelves because they had been indoctrinated with lies about how impoverished America was. But the Soviet government had to lie because it was so incompetent (basically hostile to the main tribe that was there--they considered themselves another tribe--what the fuck kind of government can you have when those in authority view the public as their enemy? It's common sense.).
Trump is merely an example of how populist policies get trampled on because of a minority that wants to control and is opposed to social unity. Russia went through the same thing--with some difference--in the case of the US, it is the rural population that is being attacked-in the case of Russia it was the urban population that was attacked--but that's because they were Russian, so they controlled their nation--in the case of the US, those that make up the pioneer stock of the US do not control their nation and they are regarded as enemies by the government and their backers).
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 19, 2021 15:26:28 GMT
They lied to the outside world and to their own people I think it's fair to say there was a lot of propaganda on both sides in the Cold War. A lot of it is still promoted today. It certainly makes it hard to get to the bottom of how the Soviet Union was in reality. But I would avoid Solzhenitsyn to be honest - even most anti-Soviet academic historians don't reckon much to his objectivity.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 19, 2021 16:35:55 GMT
I think it's fair to say there was a lot of propaganda on both sides in the Cold War. A lot of it is still promoted today. It certainly makes it hard to get to the bottom of how the Soviet Union was in reality. But I would avoid Solzhenitsyn to be honest - even most anti-Soviet academic historians don't reckon much to his objectivity.
He fell out of favor because he saw that liberalism in the West was leading down a similar path. Hungary is demonized by the corporate media for the same reason--they lived with communism--they knew what it was like. The West is learning the lesson now. It isn't a lesson one wants to learn but what are you are going to do? Solzhenitsyn said relations with China would be bad and it is. We are living it now.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Feb 20, 2021 3:59:25 GMT
Didn’t Frederick the Great spend most of his childhood in a dungeon?
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 20, 2021 4:24:12 GMT
Didn’t Frederick the Great spend most of his childhood in a dungeon? never heard about the dungeon. His best friend (probably quite a bit more than a friend) Hans von Katte has his head removed right before Frederick's face. His father was a cruel bastard. But Frederick had a good run.
Another group of sad people were the sons of the Ottoman Sultans. The ruling Sultan never dared to give a son(s) any power, due to the threat of revolt. So they were kept in isolation in the harems, or in virtual prisons. When the Sultan died, there would be a power grab (no primogeniture), and one of the sons would get the throne. The others, strangled with a silk cloth or a bowstring. Mehmed III had 19 brothers strangled. No wonder the Ottoman Dynasty went to hell. They went from Mehmed the Conqueror and Suleiman the Magnificent to Selim the Sot and Ibrahim the Mad. Grew up powerless, in the company of women, powerless to determine their fate and probably knowing their fate if they lost.
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Post by lunda2222 on Apr 21, 2021 14:27:28 GMT
By definition I doubt the most pitiable man would be mentioned in any history books. But I have a candidate in mind: Raymond Robinson, a guy who lost his eyes, nose, and right arm at the age of 8 by an electrical line. He used to take walks during the late evenings which gave birth to the urban legends of Green Man or Charlie No Face in western Pennsylvania. He appears when darkness cloaks the roadways, stalking teenagers and thrill seekers brave enough to stop their cars in lonely tunnels and the usual the don't go out alone with a boy urban legends.
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on May 2, 2021 22:38:59 GMT
Hong Tianguifu. He was the son of Hong Xiuquan, the leader of the Taiping Rebellion. Upon his fathers death, Tianguifu ascended to the heavenly throne, but by that point the Qing armies were winning the war and the Taiping were in retreat. The young king was captured and executed by slow slicing, or “death by 1000 cuts”. His last words were some inane ramblings about how he didn’t like the city he was in and how he just wanted to go study some more, indicating that the 14 year old really didn’t understand what was going on, who he was, and what his fate would be.
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