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Post by thisguy4000 on Feb 18, 2021 21:38:05 GMT
MoS isn’t even anywhere near one of my favorite superhero movies, but sure, keep telling yourself that I’m a fanboy. I actually have a list of problems with the movie, including, but not limited to: - The non-linear flashback structure
- The use of shaky cam and zoom-ins
- Pa Kent’s apparent inconsistency
- The way Pa Kent’s death was handled
- The aforementioned obligatory romance
- The excessive product placement
- The fact that the movie jumps from Superman being devastated over killing Zod to him having a conversation with Swanwick
I genuinely don’t care about people saying that Zack Snyder is a bad filmmaker. I don’t even consider him a particularly good filmmaker. I think giving him the keys to the entire DC movieverse was a mistake. I don’t even think his movies are particularly good visually, and I certainly can’t say they’re well written. I just think dogging on the guy personally is going too far, yet people like you and the Breadtubers can’t seem to resist doing it. Like that time Lindsay Ellis made a tasteless joke about Snyder hating his dead mother, and then played the victim when people called her out on it.
Once more, I really do not care when people say his movies are bad. Just don’t attack the guy personally, or try to assume you understand how his mind functions. By all accounts, Zack Snyder seems to be a pretty easygoing guy, and basically all the actors who have talked about working with him (including the openly queer Ezra Miller and Tig Notaro) have had nothing but nice things to say about him. If not being a fan of ragging on someone who doesn’t seem to deserve it makes me a “fanboy” in your eyes, then I’m convinced that you’re probably an asshole who doesn’t give two shits about common decency.
Arguing with you is extremely tedious and repetitive in general. You come across as a very snarky, condescending, and self-righteous individual. Maybe that’s not how you are in real life, but that’s how you come across on here. All you ever seem to do is be cheeky and confrontational. I didn’t even make this thread to talk about how “great” I think MoS and Zack Snyder are, but you still went ahead and insisted that’s what I was doing in your typical style. Maybe it would be best if you just put me on ignore?
Also, I was typing on a phone earlier, hence the “Arian Johnson” typo. I was without power for the past couple of days.
It's not really "going after the guy personally" to notice and call out something he projects in his films. I never said he wasn't "easygoing", nor anything about his mom whom I don't know from Eve. I'm talking about *what he puts in his films*, which is an entirely fair target. If a guy carves a swatstika into 4 of his paintings, it might be fair to ask "is he a Nazi?" If he says he wants to adapt Mein Kampf, likewise. If a Jew sees the paintings and calls them anti-semitic, is that Jew an "asshole"? I mean, the painter has 1-2 Jewish friends, and "I can't be racist because I have a ____ friend" is a flawless argument, but still, 4 swatstikas might send a message one might not like, and is it wrong to mention it in the critique of the paintings? And if you disagree to all of that, would you still go around calling people "asshole" if they said, say, Bong Joon Ho seems to care about poor people and class struggles based on his movies and they *liked* that? I mean, they're still getting "personal", but in this case it's positive. As I said previously, not only did I comment extensively on your topic in my initial post, I then tried to steer it back to the topic and you ignored both to argue with ME about a minor Snyder point, so you can get off of your cross about "why you made the thread". We could have been talking about a MoS universe this whole time. Likewise, I can be snarky, but at least I'm not insidious about it. You think coming into the middle of a debate to post a one-sided video against me and then saying "I didn't mean nuthin" is sneaky? If I came into this thread and posted a video called "Anyone Who Thinks MoS could Make A Good Foundation For a DC Universe Is A Moron and They Smell Bad" and then I said "I was just posting it, it's not necessarily what I think", how much of a two-faced coward would I have to be? Suggesting that a person is a bigot based on your interpretation of certain qualities of his movies as "problematic" is definitely not a fair thing to do. Again, if I said that Rian Johnson supports female on male sexual assault because of that awkward kiss scene he put in TLJ, or that he supports abusive relationships, because of the sexual tension he gave Rey and Kylo Ren (he literally said that the hand touching scene is the closest thing Star Wars has to a sex scene), would you be ok with that? If the answer is no, then you're being a hypocrite. Calling someone a bigot is a pretty serious accusation in general. If you don't realize that, you're either extremely young, or you're one of those individuals who goes "NAZI!" at people you don't like. In any case, you might want to be careful with that stuff in the future, because that can potentially qualify as defamation. What exactly is there to comment on in regards to the topic at this point? You said you disagree with the idea that MoS could've worked as the foundation for a universe. I can't change your mind on that. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. The thing that bothered me was your passive-aggressive insinuation that I'm some blind Zack Snyder fanboy. That was unnecessary. The reason I talk about Zack Snyder a lot is because this is a DC movie board, and Snyder has been a major part of DC movies in the past decade, not because I think the dude is a genius. I'm certainly not one of those #RestoreTheSnyderVerse people. If anything, I think WB might as well completely scrap the universe that Zack Snyder created after the Snyder Cut is released. I'm insidious because I posted a silly video in a public thread about a meme that I thought was somewhat amusing? The reason I posted that video was because I had just recently found out about that meme, but I didn't think it justified its own thread, hence why I put it in a thread where it seemed somewhat relevant. You seriously think I cared about your stupid debate with mello to try and conspire against you? You must have a serious victim complex. Let me just be clear with you: I don't have any desire to antagonize you, especially not just because you don't like some silly comic book movies by a director who I don't even think is very good at what he does. If you saw me posting that dumb video the other day as an attack against you, then I apologize, but that was certainly not my intention. I don't want to be enemies with anyone, and I'd be happy to bury the hatchet over this nonsense. I don't know you personally, nor do you know me. For all I know, you could be a decent guy who donates to the homeless.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 18, 2021 22:50:26 GMT
It's not really "going after the guy personally" to notice and call out something he projects in his films. I never said he wasn't "easygoing", nor anything about his mom whom I don't know from Eve. I'm talking about *what he puts in his films*, which is an entirely fair target. If a guy carves a swatstika into 4 of his paintings, it might be fair to ask "is he a Nazi?" If he says he wants to adapt Mein Kampf, likewise. If a Jew sees the paintings and calls them anti-semitic, is that Jew an "asshole"? I mean, the painter has 1-2 Jewish friends, and "I can't be racist because I have a ____ friend" is a flawless argument, but still, 4 swatstikas might send a message one might not like, and is it wrong to mention it in the critique of the paintings? And if you disagree to all of that, would you still go around calling people "asshole" if they said, say, Bong Joon Ho seems to care about poor people and class struggles based on his movies and they *liked* that? I mean, they're still getting "personal", but in this case it's positive. As I said previously, not only did I comment extensively on your topic in my initial post, I then tried to steer it back to the topic and you ignored both to argue with ME about a minor Snyder point, so you can get off of your cross about "why you made the thread". We could have been talking about a MoS universe this whole time. Likewise, I can be snarky, but at least I'm not insidious about it. You think coming into the middle of a debate to post a one-sided video against me and then saying "I didn't mean nuthin" is sneaky? If I came into this thread and posted a video called "Anyone Who Thinks MoS could Make A Good Foundation For a DC Universe Is A Moron and They Smell Bad" and then I said "I was just posting it, it's not necessarily what I think", how much of a two-faced coward would I have to be? Suggesting that a person is a bigot based on your interpretation of certain qualities of his movies as "problematic" is definitely not a fair thing to do. Again, if I said that Rian Johnson supports female on male sexual assault because of that awkward kiss scene he put in TLJ, or that he supports abusive relationships, because of the sexual tension he gave Rey and Kylo Ren (he literally said that the hand touching scene is the closest thing Star Wars has to a sex scene), would you be ok with that? If the answer is no, then you're being a hypocrite. Calling someone a bigot is a pretty serious accusation in general. If you don't realize that, you're either extremely young, or you're one of those individuals who goes "NAZI!" at people you don't like. In any case, you might want to be careful with that stuff in the future, because that can potentially qualify as defamation. What exactly is there to comment on in regards to the topic at this point? You said you disagree with the idea that MoS could've worked as the foundation for a universe. I can't change your mind on that. You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. The thing that bothered me was your passive-aggressive insinuation that I'm some blind Zack Snyder fanboy. That was unnecessary. The reason I talk about Zack Snyder a lot is because this is a DC movie board, and Snyder has been a major part of DC movies in the past decade, not because I think the dude is a genius. I'm certainly not one of those #RestoreTheSnyderVerse people. If anything, I think WB might as well completely scrap the universe that Zack Snyder created after the Snyder Cut is released. I'm insidious because I posted a silly video in a public thread about a meme that I thought was somewhat amusing? The reason I posted that video was because I had just recently found out about that meme, but I didn't think it justified its own thread, hence why I put it in a thread where it seemed somewhat relevant. You seriously think I cared about your stupid debate with mello to try and conspire against you? You must have a serious victim complex. Let me just be clear with you: I don't have any desire to antagonize you, especially not just because you don't like some silly comic book movies by a director who I don't even think is very good at what he does. If you saw me posting that dumb video the other day as an attack against you, then I apologize, but that was certainly not my intention. I don't want to be enemies with anyone, and I'd be happy to bury the hatchet over this nonsense. I don't know you personally, nor do you know me. For all I know, you could be a decent guy who donates to the homeless. I think Rian Johnson was definitely commenting on abusive relationships in TLJ, particularly YA ones like Twilight where you have a sad bad boy monster who just needs a woman's love to redeem him. I would say it was portrayed pretty negatively, hence Rey setting out to "fix" Kylo and it failing (though one could put forth an accusation against JJ Abrams as problematic, which I'll go ahead and do right now: I think TRoS was extremely distasteful for having Rey kiss Kylo, which the novelization even tried to downplay the romantic connotations of. Bad JJ, bad.) Calling Rose's kiss a sexual assault is a reach imo, nor do I recall a lot of similar examples in Johnson's other films, whereas there are multiple examples in Snyder's films of arguable homophobia, and one movie in particular there's no two ways of interpreting: repurposing the Spartans as a bunch of no-homo gymbros who use homosexuality as an insult against the preposterously queer-coded Persians. The real life Xerxes, who looked nothing like the drag queen portrayed, even has his homosexuality used as a fear tactic on Leonidas. That's literally putting the phobia in homophobia. If Rose said "People who don't sexually assault people are losers", you'd have a pretty good case for Johnson being pro-sexual assault. Saying I have a victim complex is a bit ironic considering your attitude throughout this entire thread. I pointed out you've also said MoS would make a great start to a soloverse, and that the portrayal of the destruction of Metropolis in BvS felt like course correction, and you lost your mind. Who's to say we couldn't have had a fine discussion about where the franchise could have gone after MoS? Yeah, it's pretty shot now, but my initial comment was one small observation that you'd previously seemed to pin the downfall of Snyder-Superman on too much universe-ing (which you never addressed beyond its snarky undertone) and then two paragraphs on why I personally think the DCEU was DOA. I'd love to bury the hatchet but you need to be less defensive going forward. Accusing me of defamation because I commented on a pattern in a director's movies is pretty wild. Are we just supposed to not notice politics in film and pretend they don't exist? And does it only go one way? Am I allowed to say James Cameron likes a strong female characters, or is that too dangerous?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 26, 2021 19:53:54 GMT
I still maintain that when taken on its own, Man of Steel works perfectly fine as the beginning of a new DC Universe. It has some differences from what people would expect from a Superman story, but it’s still a superhero story. It also ends on a fairly uplifting note, so it’s not that grim and gritty. The last shot of the movie is even Clark Kent smiling at The Daily Planet. I don't have a problem with MOS at all. I even like BvS. I know... I'm crazy. But I think you're right about MOS. Its only with BvS that some issues with storytelling start to creep up. Zack Snyder... brilliant visualist, less than stellar storyteller... What I wouldn't pay to have Spielberg direct Superman
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Post by ellynmacg on Mar 5, 2021 4:49:38 GMT
I still maintain that when taken on its own, Man of Steel works perfectly fine as the beginning of a new DC Universe. It has some differences from what people would expect from a Superman story, but it’s still a superhero story. It also ends on a fairly uplifting note, so it’s not that grim and gritty. The last shot of the movie is even Clark Kent smiling at The Daily Planet. I love Lois's line: "Welcome to the Planet." Now, does she mean her newspaper...or the planet Earth? My answer would be...YES! 
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csale
New Member
@csale
Posts: 33
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Post by csale on Mar 9, 2021 0:25:31 GMT
Man of Steel’s biggest issue is the core concept of Superman. The point of Supes is that he is the very best of us and a hero despite having every reason not to be. He is the most powerful being in the planet and chooses to help humankind despite all our flaws.
While it was okay to make him edgy and emo for a little while, you can’t keep him there and maintain the character that appeals to the comic readers (or any version of him really).
The couple minutes of a smiling Superman in JL (which is a terrible movie) is much better than the characterization from the rest of his appearances on screen in the DCEU - where he doing very in-Superman things like punching bad guys through brick walls (splat!).
Henry Cavill looks the part and has the chops, but never really had the scripts
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Post by politicidal on Jul 23, 2021 12:29:59 GMT
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Post by Marv on Jul 28, 2021 1:40:16 GMT
Agreed. MoS was fine and deserved a true sequel.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 28, 2021 1:55:28 GMT
Agreed. MoS was fine and deserved a true sequel. That'd be great. Granted, Cavill isn't getting younger but I think they can still get two more films out of him at least.
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Post by Marv on Jul 28, 2021 2:11:42 GMT
Agreed. MoS was fine and deserved a true sequel. That'd be great. Granted, Cavill isn't getting younger but I think they can still get two more films out of him at least. I kind of gave up hope on it but I’d be pleasantly surprised if they gave it a sequel in the next few years. I’d also be supportive of anything Cavill does. I tend to enjoy his flicks and stuff…the Witcher was solid and Man from UNCLE was very entertaining. |
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