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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 0:33:20 GMT
As far as I can tell, people who label themselves as atheists but believe in other "spiritual" things are saying that these things are just part of the way the universe works, but they don't believe that a being created it or is controlling it. I think this might be where the confusion is coming in. No confusion from my part because I agree with you. Atheism is away from theist God creation only. Yet belief in a religious creator God, or non-belief in a religious creator God still comes down to God. There is no way to escape God from either side of the spectrum of belief, because God is the instigator of the belief first and foremost. It is then dependent on how one perceives God as an extreme notion leaning, or a whole and complete notion in the sense that it is all God. I don't believe in ANY kind of God and you would have to ask every individual person what they mean when they say they are an atheist. I don't believe that a deist God exists and I don't believe that a theist God exists. Deism is a sub-category of theism in my view. Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 0:36:32 GMT
Then you are sort of redefining atheism it seems to me or rather, we just are using atheism in different ways. All I care about is what a person means by something. What is atheism according to you? If someone claims the universe is "God" then I don't care. They are just labeling something that I believe exists to be God. If someone who believes in a "spiritual" connectivity of the universe or whatever, but states clearly that they don't believe that God exists, then they are what they are. Pick a term, but don't tell them they believe in something that they do not. You do not get to tell people what they think and what they don't think. I mean, you can, but people who do that I will simply write off. You can try to explain to them that they do sort of believe in some kind of "God" state I suppose and then they would have to then admit they are a theist to some extent if you are able to trick them. When I say I am atheist, I am talking about a conscious being or beings that created the universe. That is the only thing I define as God.
As a skeptic, I don't believe any claim that I am unable to believe/don't see good evidence for or am unfamiliar or don't understand the evidence that would show it is likely true. It is as simple as that. Language is an interesting thing. Your thinking regarding God appears fragmented as though you are placing a supreme being image of theist God onto atheist belief. How can one define theist God, when they claim rejection of it to label themselves as atheist? I don't know what you even mean. I define God (even a deist God) as a thinking agent. If someone else means God in a different way, then I don't care. You will have to tell me what you mean by God in a non-common place God way and then I can say whether I believe it or not. Like I said, if people are just referring to the unknown as God then they can fuck right off. They are just defining their ignorance or the whole of existence as God.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 0:50:41 GMT
I don't know what you even mean. I define God (even a deist God) as a thinking agent. If someone else means God in a different way, then I don't care. You will have to tell me what you mean by God in a non-common place God way and then I can say whether I believe it or not. Like I said, if people are just referring to the unknown as God then they can fuck right off. They are just defining their ignorance or the whole of existence as God. How can you define something that's not real, or something you don't believe in? What is there to believe in, your thinking? That is where the confusion is stemming from. Atheism is a response to the claims that are made by believers and to the common usage of the God as a thinking being who is telling people how to behave and what to do, because that has consequences. Atheism is a thing because it is a push back against a society that wants to control thought and behavior with something they can't even show reasonably that exists and that is insanity imo. Someone needs to tell me what they mean by God and then I will respond as to whether I believe it or not. Every belief that someone has about a God that I have heard, I don't believe in that God.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 1:09:33 GMT
Atheism is a response to the claims that are made by believers and to the common usage of the God as a thinking being who is telling people how to behave and what to do, because that has consequences. Atheism is a thing because it is a push back against a society that wants to control thought and behavior with something they can't even show reasonably that exists and that is insanity imo. Someone needs to tell me what they mean by God and then I will respond as to whether I believe it or not. Every belief that someone has about a God that I have heard, I don't believe in that God. I agree, yet since God in a theist sense cannot and never will be proven, I don't even ponder over that. I only use the term God based on theist notion of creator, but place it into the entire and whole shabang that God is all and everything complete. There is NO supreme deity or saviour. Well I don't know if it could or couldn't be proven at some point (I mean if God is real then He could prove himself considering he is capable of virtually anything), but I will say I find it highly unlikely. The issue is that there are a whole bunch of people who believe this God exists and that he wants things and that they believe he is interacting with reality and telling them dangerous harmful things that impact society and cause people to disown family, cause wars and laws etc. then fighting back against that is important.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 1:21:53 GMT
Well I don't know if it could or couldn't be proven at some point (I mean if God is real then He could prove himself considering he is capable of virtually anything), but I will say I find it highly unlikely. The issue is that there are a whole bunch of people who believe this God exists and that he wants things and that they believe he is interacting with reality and telling them dangerous harmful things that impact society and cause people to disown family, cause wars and laws etc. then fighting back against that is important. It won't ever be proven, because God is not an individual deity and is only born out of deluded theist belief that atheism then rejects. I agree and there are millions of them, especially in the Middle East and the U.S. I don't know what it is like where you live, but in the U.S. it is a problem and in the Middle East you have to fear for your life.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 5:31:14 GMT
As far as I can tell, people who label themselves as atheists but believe in other "spiritual" things are saying that these things are just part of the way the universe works, but they don't believe that a being created it or is controlling it. I think this might be where the confusion is coming in. A theist is defined as someone "who believes in the existence of a God; especially, one who believes in a God who sustains a personal relation to his creatures." (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=theist&ia=definition) So a-theist is the negation of this term becoming one who does not believe in the existence of a God; especially, one who does not believe in a God who sustains a personal relation to his creatures, rather than a belief in no God. I am definitely no a believer in the God as most the religious folks would on this board do believe in. I am aware of what the modern definition of atheist is and everything you wrote lines up with my thoughts, but different people use the term atheist in slightly different ways from what I have seen.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 20, 2021 6:02:10 GMT
I am aware of what the modern definition of atheist is and everything you wrote lines up with my thoughts, but different people use the term atheist in slightly different ways from what I have seen. I am sure that you do. When I post stuff like this, I do so for the benefit of anyone who may read this including the person I'm responding to. So, please don't be offended. You are good. I make a distinction between being irritated and being offended and I was just slightly irritated. You cleared it up though. I save the word offensive for stuff that makes me vehemently angry and has a real impact on my life. Religious people who preach offend me.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 21, 2021 23:24:33 GMT
It’s weird. I live in the southern Bible Belt. I don’t know a lot of atheists or openly “out” as atheists. But, I know about 5. And all 5 of them are really into astrology. I don’t get it? If you’re an atheist. I get that means you don’t believe in God. But, why do you believe in Astrology? That’s kind of like a religious belief too. Why not go full atheist? Believe in nothing? It’s like a vegetarian saying “well, I don’t eat mammals. But I’ll have fish on Fridays.” Im an atheist and I don’t know why anybody would believe in astrology. Being an atheist for me is about critical thinking, and astrology is no more rational than deities. I don’t think your 5 atheists are typical of most atheists. |
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Feb 22, 2021 22:34:34 GMT
Winter_King summed it up well. The only thing that all Atheists have in common is that they don't believe in god or gods. Other than that they can believe in anything else.
But from a personal perspective I know a LOT of atheists and not one of them believes in astrology. So you may just have a weird subset there.
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