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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 0:33:31 GMT
I know what that means to other people, but I don't personally find any use for it. I find all that stuff interesting, but I don't believe in any of it as truth and have seen no reason to. I'm sure there is something more to existence than we realize, but I don't know what it is and therefor hold no belief regarding it. I understand. I was an atheist from my late teens to early 20s. But, my life has always been kind of weird, and there was just too much that I couldn't explain. I don't have any problem with atheists. We all have our own journey to take. I take it any strangeness as just part of the way the universe is.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 23, 2021 0:36:47 GMT
Spiritual, not religious. I haven't found a label that I'm comfortable with. My spirituality is closely tied to Nature, so in the past, I've identified as pagan, pantheist, etc. I find that labels become a burden and stifle growth, so I've given up on that. Maybe my most accurate title is just wanderer. Most of my beliefs come from personal experience, not from books or teachers. I enjoy learning about religions just because I find them interesting. However, I see them only as providing a framework to help people seek Divinity, not that any religion is itself the ultimate Truth. I suppose any religion is valid for the honest seeker, and there are many paths to the top of the mountain. All the genuinely spiritual people I've met seem to come to the same Truths and have similar views, despite a wide diversity of backgrounds. I find that fascinating. I know what that means to other people, but I don't personally find any use for it. I find all that stuff interesting, but I don't believe in any of it as truth and have seen no reason to. I'm sure there is something more to existence than we realize, but I don't know what it is and therefore hold no belief regarding it. Interesting, mystery, I find the same highlighted text puzzling. I don't think I would respond to it in the same way as the OP... I guess my stumbling block would be the word 'divinity'. I honestly can't relate to that word. There are so many beautiful, amazing things about this planet and it's inhabitants, all of them, but none of it would be anything more than natural, of the natural world. Divinity would fall under the category of supernatural, and I don't believe in anything supernatural. There are things that happen that have yet to be explained or validated by the scientific method, we are discovering new things all the time. But 'divinity'? That... is a puzzlement. I am fairly certain that we are the only species on this planet that would have any concept of that. I think I have come to terms with the thought that the universe isn't cruel, it's just indifferent. Any 'meaning' to it is a meaning that we, as individuals, have assigned to it. Just my humble opinion.
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Post by mystery on Feb 23, 2021 1:15:49 GMT
I know what that means to other people, but I don't personally find any use for it. I find all that stuff interesting, but I don't believe in any of it as truth and have seen no reason to. I'm sure there is something more to existence than we realize, but I don't know what it is and therefore hold no belief regarding it. Interesting, mystery, I find the same highlighted text puzzling. I don't think I would respond to it in the same way as the OP... I guess my stumbling block would be the word 'divinity'. I honestly can't relate to that word. There are so many beautiful, amazing things about this planet and it's inhabitants, all of them, but none of it would be anything more than natural, of the natural world. Divinity would fall under the category of supernatural, and I don't believe in anything supernatural. There are things that happen that have yet to be explained or validated by the scientific method, we are discovering new things all the time. But 'divinity'? That... is a puzzlement. I am fairly certain that we are the only species on this planet that would have any concept of that. I think I have come to terms with the thought that the universe isn't cruel, it's just indifferent. Any 'meaning' to it is a meaning that we, as individuals, have assigned to it. Just my humble opinion. Divinity doesn't have to mean invisible sky daddy. It could be life force, or soul, or consciousness. There are so many different interpretations. The main thing that ended my atheism was my premonitions. I was a STEM major in college, and I tried my best to dismiss the premonitions as coincidences, but eventually I couldn't just ignore them anymore. I've always had a love/hate relationship with them, because on one hand, I appreciate having a heads up, and not being caught off guard. On the other hand, the guilt was phenomenal. If I knew someone was going to die, and I did nothing about it, then I felt responsible for it. It was really hard on me. A few years ago, things got to be too much for me to cope with, so I took a hiatus from my spiritual path. The premonitions have definitely slowed down, and I don't feel as connected as I used to, but I'm kind of okay with that. Sometimes it's nice to almost feel normal. Maybe someday I'll go back to my spiritual path, but I don't think I'm ready yet. I guess I'm still trying to process things.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 23, 2021 1:33:27 GMT
Interesting, mystery , I find the same highlighted text puzzling. I don't think I would respond to it in the same way as the OP... I guess my stumbling block would be the word 'divinity'. I honestly can't relate to that word. There are so many beautiful, amazing things about this planet and it's inhabitants, all of them, but none of it would be anything more than natural, of the natural world. Divinity would fall under the category of supernatural, and I don't believe in anything supernatural. There are things that happen that have yet to be explained or validated by the scientific method, we are discovering new things all the time. But 'divinity'? That... is a puzzlement. I am fairly certain that we are the only species on this planet that would have any concept of that. I think I have come to terms with the thought that the universe isn't cruel, it's just indifferent. Any 'meaning' to it is a meaning that we, as individuals, have assigned to it. Just my humble opinion. Divinity doesn't have to mean invisible sky daddy. It could be life force, or soul, or consciousness. There are so many different interpretations. The main thing that ended my atheism was my premonitions. I was a STEM major in college, and I tried my best to dismiss the premonitions as coincidences, but eventually I couldn't just ignore them anymore. I've always had a love/hate relationship with them, because on one hand, I appreciate having a heads up, and not being caught off guard. On the other hand, the guilt was phenomenal. If I knew someone was going to die, and I did nothing about it, then I felt responsible for it. It was really hard on me. A few years ago, things got to be too much for me to cope with, so I took a hiatus from my spiritual path. The premonitions have definitely slowed down, and I don't feel as connected as I used to, but I'm kind of okay with that. Sometimes it's nice to almost feel normal. Maybe someday I'll go back to my spiritual path, but I don't think I'm ready yet. I guess I'm still trying to process things. I have a very good friend that, like you, has had premonitions and other unexplained incidents that have influenced her spiritual journey. She and I get along fine. Her premonitions have slowed down also. They were disturbing to her, too. We agree to disagree on the spirituality issue, and focus on other shared areas of interest; we are both 'tree huggers' and photographers.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 2:10:20 GMT
Stop caring what fundamentalists think. The only power they have now derives from the fact that otherwise sane people began to care about what they thought and started acting as though they deserved a legitimate place at the societal table. Once the fundies got that foot in the door, they ran amok. The only way to begin stripping them of the power they've managed to acquire is by relegating them to the ideological dump their loony ideas deservedly place them. One way to begin doing that is by ceasing to concern yourself with what any fundie thinks or believes regarding any matter of importance. One of their primary ideological stances is that they should remove themselves from this sinful world. So oblige them in that stance by ignoring them altogether. It would be easy to ignore them if they didn’t force their religion onto everybody else. The beef they have with gay rights is it is against God’s ordinances, they can’t make same sex intercourse illegal again using the “against Nature” argument. If Trump had not so easily won these people over by donning Christian drag, Trump would never been elected President. I think it really comes down to them just not liking it. You can never get these people to be really honest because they are very confused and often not very intelligent. Everything is "natural." I don't know how anything can really be against nature. Nature doesn't have opinions.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 23, 2021 2:54:10 GMT
It would be easy to ignore them if they didn’t force their religion onto everybody else. The beef they have with gay rights is it is against God’s ordinances, they can’t make same sex intercourse illegal again using the “against Nature” argument. If Trump had not so easily won these people over by donning Christian drag, Trump would never been elected President. I think it really comes down to them just not liking it. You can never get these people to be really honest because they are very confused and often not very intelligent. Everything is "natural." I don't know how anything can really be against nature. Nature doesn't have opinions. Reading your response made me think of a line from an old movie... "Since that fateful day when stinking bits of slime crawled from the sea and shouted to the cold stars, "I... AM... MAN". our greatest dread has been the knowledge of our own mortality." Gene Wilder as Dr. Frankenstein in "Young Frankenstein".
I really think that our awareness of death and fear of the unknown are at the base of all religious beliefs.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 3:02:37 GMT
I think it really comes down to them just not liking it. You can never get these people to be really honest because they are very confused and often not very intelligent. Everything is "natural." I don't know how anything can really be against nature. Nature doesn't have opinions. Reading your response made me think of a line from an old movie... "Since that fateful day when stinking bits of slime crawled from the sea and shouted to the cold stars, "I... AM... MAN". our greatest dread has been the knowledge of our own mortality." Gene Wilder as Dr. Frankenstein in "Young Frankenstein".
I really think that our awareness of death and fear of the unknown are at the base of all religious beliefs. That is definitely a big part if it. Misunderstandings about reality due to ignorance might be at the base of it just as much.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 23, 2021 3:16:57 GMT
Reading your response made me think of a line from an old movie... "Since that fateful day when stinking bits of slime crawled from the sea and shouted to the cold stars, "I... AM... MAN". our greatest dread has been the knowledge of our own mortality." Gene Wilder as Dr. Frankenstein in "Young Frankenstein".
I really think that our awareness of death and fear of the unknown are at the base of all religious beliefs. That is definitely a big part if it. Misunderstandings about reality due to ignorance might be at the base of it just as much. Yes, we used to think that illness came from sin or demonic possession, now we know about viruses and bacteria. Maybe that is why we are seeing this clash between fact and faith at this time. As science explains the natural world more clearly, it's really hard to give up those comforting belief systems. I wonder if they will end up coexisting, or if there will be a clear division between those who choose fact and those that choose faith. Though academically it was possible to be atheist before the age of science, before that time, it was simply comparing belief systems.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 4:06:58 GMT
That is definitely a big part if it. Misunderstandings about reality due to ignorance might be at the base of it just as much. Yes, we used to think that illness came from sin or demonic possession, now we know about viruses and bacteria. Maybe that is why we are seeing this clash between fact and faith at this time. As science explains the natural world more clearly, it's really hard to give up those comforting belief systems. I wonder if they will end up coexisting, or if there will be a clear division between those who choose fact and those that choose faith. Though academically it was possible to be atheist before the age of science, before that time, it was simply comparing belief systems. Of course there were atheists before the age of science, though I am not sure they would have called themselves atheists. I haven't done much research on how far back the term was used in the exact way many atheists use it now. I know that the Roman's called Christians atheists, because they didn't believe in the "true gods" according to them. This was obviously before Christianity was adopted as the religion of Rome.
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Post by mystery on Feb 23, 2021 5:08:27 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident.
Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts?
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gw
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Post by gw on Feb 23, 2021 6:38:36 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident. Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts? I found an ebook on Amazon about premonitions and other forms of precognition. I haven't read it, though perhaps I should as I may have had precognitive dreams. But it seems that often when I look back on it, I can't think of any dreams that may have been precognitive so it could be partially or wholly a delusion. The Science of Premonitions
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Post by amyghost on Feb 23, 2021 13:31:17 GMT
Stop caring what fundamentalists think. The only power they have now derives from the fact that otherwise sane people began to care about what they thought and started acting as though they deserved a legitimate place at the societal table. Once the fundies got that foot in the door, they ran amok. The only way to begin stripping them of the power they've managed to acquire is by relegating them to the ideological dump their loony ideas deservedly place them. One way to begin doing that is by ceasing to concern yourself with what any fundie thinks or believes regarding any matter of importance. One of their primary ideological stances is that they should remove themselves from this sinful world. So oblige them in that stance by ignoring them altogether. I do ignore them, but they are still a curiosity to me. The Manson Family was a curiosity to me, but it doesn't mean I'd have granted any degree of legitimacy to their opinions on matters of social import.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 23, 2021 13:38:27 GMT
Stop caring what fundamentalists think. The only power they have now derives from the fact that otherwise sane people began to care about what they thought and started acting as though they deserved a legitimate place at the societal table. Once the fundies got that foot in the door, they ran amok. The only way to begin stripping them of the power they've managed to acquire is by relegating them to the ideological dump their loony ideas deservedly place them. One way to begin doing that is by ceasing to concern yourself with what any fundie thinks or believes regarding any matter of importance. One of their primary ideological stances is that they should remove themselves from this sinful world. So oblige them in that stance by ignoring them altogether. It would be easy to ignore them if they didn’t force their religion onto everybody else. The beef they have with gay rights is it is against God’s ordinances, they can’t make same sex intercourse illegal again using the “against Nature” argument. If Trump had not so easily won these people over by donning Christian drag, Trump would never been elected President. Unfortunately, part of how they gained that degree of asendancy over secular law was the result of their being given a place at the table by many of our more dingbat politicos, most notably old Ronnie Raygun himself. The media quickly followed suit. If the voting public had exercised more vigilance and less apathy at the ballot box back in the day the fundies would have had a much harder time of it in the present era, I feel certain. Forty years of largely ignoring this crap has been at the public's peril, but the public (and I fully believe the majority of the public are not in sympathy with these loons, no matter how it may sometimes appear) can begin dismantling the damage by refusing to elect or re-elect the twits who support these cretins--oftentimes in exchange for hefty campaign contributions from said cretins' all-too-plentiful reserve funds.
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Post by mystery on Feb 23, 2021 17:32:21 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident. Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts? I found an ebook on Amazon about premonitions and other forms of precognition. I haven't read it, though perhaps I should as I may have had precognitive dreams. But it seems that often when I look back on it, I can't think of any dreams that may have been precognitive so it could be partially or wholly a delusion. The Science of Premonitions I've very rarely had precognitive dreams. My premonitions are almost always a sudden sense of knowing, although occasionally it comes through visions that are usually highly symbolic and need to be interpreted. My range isn't very long, typically from a few minutes to a few days, although there are exceptions. Thank you for the link. I read an excerpt, but it was mostly just stories about premonitions rather than any scientific explanation for them. Most scientists seem more interested in debunking premonitions than exploring the nature of time, which I think would be a fascinating subject to delve into. Oh well.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 23, 2021 18:36:29 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident. Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts? My friend who has premonitions definitely believes in some sort of supernatural cause. And she is the one who has had these experiences, so who am I to judge? My theory is that there is some sort of physiological anomaly in the brain of people who exhibit this behavior, and that someday science will be able to define it. Just my humble opinion. I have actually had just a few grouped premonitions that later showed that they were related. I still can't explain it. I've never had it happen again. It could have just been a coincidence. But the brain is still mysterious...
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 21:17:38 GMT
I do ignore them, but they are still a curiosity to me. The Manson Family was a curiosity to me, but it doesn't mean I'd have granted any degree of legitimacy to their opinions on matters of social import. Not sure where I said I would give their opinions any social import.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 23, 2021 21:27:25 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident. Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts? 1. Premonitions have nothing to do with God, therefor they aren't connected to atheism. In order for anything to be linked to God, God would be need to be shown to exist first. 2. I have never seen any proof that anyone has had a premonition. You are just some person on the internet who says he has had premonitions. This has to do with me being a skeptic. There is nothing about atheism that says you can't believe in other "supernatural" stuff. There are atheists who believe in ghosts etc. I am an open minded person, but when it comes to "supernatural" stuff I need hard evidence that people actually are seeing the future, not just people saying they do. Also, even if they did see the future, there seems to be no way to explain why they do, so the answer becomes not that it is supernatural, but that we don't know why the are able to do this. The people who say they can do this don't seem to have a gift that actually serves much purpose either. If they were able to do it on a whim that would be different and then they would be able to prove that they could do it to everyone else. It would be known to everyone that this is a thing that is real, because it would be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. I do love talking about this kind of stuff and I am not writing you off. That is what skepticism is. That I will believe something when the evidence is sufficient for me to believe it. If I believed you had premonitions I would still be an atheist, I just would now believe that some people can see the future. Skeptics aren't people who just stubbornly won't believe stuff. Is the singularity of a black hole supernatural? My point is that even if we don't know the answers to something doesn't make it supernatural.
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Post by mystery on Feb 24, 2021 2:47:27 GMT
I'm curious about how atheists would explain premonitions, because some of them aren't so easy to shrug off as coincidence. I'll just give one average example to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. One night I was driving, and I pulled up at a stop light. For some reason, the car in the lane next to me caught my attention. It wasn't anything special, just some late model sedan, and it was a flat gray color that reminded me of storm clouds. And then suddenly, I knew this car was going to get into an accident. I was sure of it. The light turned green and we drove forward. I felt so unnerved by this car that I finally pulled over at a grocery store just to get away from it. I took my time, and then decided I needed to get back on the road. When I reached the edge of town, I saw all these flashing lights, and my heart sank. There was a cop directing traffic around the accident scene. When I drove past, I saw that one of the cars had that flat gray paint, the color of storm clouds, and it was crushed like a pop can. I was pretty upset, obviously. I had assumed that if I wasn't there, then the accident wouldn't happen. I was wrong. This was the only time I had ever thought that a specific car was going to be in an accident. Obviously, one experience like this can be dismissed as coincidence. But after dozens or hundreds times, it becomes harder to simply ignore. I always thought of premonitions like ripples in a pond, flowing back from some disturbance in the near future. I've never heard any scientific explanation for premonitions, other than skepticism that it even happens. Thoughts? 1. Premonitions have nothing to do with God, therefor they aren't connected to atheism. In order for anything to be linked to God, God would be need to be shown to exist first. 2. I have never seen any proof that anyone has had a premonition. You are just some person on the internet who says he has had premonitions. This has to do with me being a skeptic. There is nothing about atheism that says you can't believe in other "supernatural" stuff. There are atheists who believe in ghosts etc. I am an open minded person, but when it comes to "supernatural" stuff I need hard evidence that people actually are seeing the future, not just people saying they do. Also, even if they did see the future, there seems to be no way to explain why they do, so the answer becomes not that it is supernatural, but that we don't know why the are able to do this. The people who say they can do this don't seem to have a gift that actually serves much purpose either. If they were able to do it on a whim that would be different and then they would be able to prove that they could do it to everyone else. It would be known to everyone that this is a thing that is real, because it would be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. I do love talking about this kind of stuff and I am not writing you off. That is what skepticism is. That I will believe something when the evidence is sufficient for me to believe it. If I believed you had premonitions I would still be an atheist, I just would now believe that some people can see the future. Skeptics aren't people who just stubbornly won't believe stuff. Is the singularity of a black hole supernatural? My point is that even if we don't know the answers to something doesn't make it supernatural. I understand that God and the supernatural are not necessarily one in the same, but most atheists are materialists. I was just curious as to whether there was some scientific explanation for premonitions, even if it involves theoretical physics or whatnot. I just think that time is such an interesting subject to ponder. I wish I knew more about quantum mechanics and all that fun stuff, but my eyes tend to glaze over. It's just slightly over my head. There does seem to be a point where the line between science and spirituality begins to blur, which is really fascinating.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 24, 2021 3:09:48 GMT
1. Premonitions have nothing to do with God, therefor they aren't connected to atheism. In order for anything to be linked to God, God would be need to be shown to exist first. 2. I have never seen any proof that anyone has had a premonition. You are just some person on the internet who says he has had premonitions. This has to do with me being a skeptic. There is nothing about atheism that says you can't believe in other "supernatural" stuff. There are atheists who believe in ghosts etc. I am an open minded person, but when it comes to "supernatural" stuff I need hard evidence that people actually are seeing the future, not just people saying they do. Also, even if they did see the future, there seems to be no way to explain why they do, so the answer becomes not that it is supernatural, but that we don't know why the are able to do this. The people who say they can do this don't seem to have a gift that actually serves much purpose either. If they were able to do it on a whim that would be different and then they would be able to prove that they could do it to everyone else. It would be known to everyone that this is a thing that is real, because it would be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. I do love talking about this kind of stuff and I am not writing you off. That is what skepticism is. That I will believe something when the evidence is sufficient for me to believe it. If I believed you had premonitions I would still be an atheist, I just would now believe that some people can see the future. Skeptics aren't people who just stubbornly won't believe stuff. Is the singularity of a black hole supernatural? My point is that even if we don't know the answers to something doesn't make it supernatural. I understand that God and the supernatural are not necessarily one in the same, but most atheists are materialists. I was just curious as to whether there was some scientific explanation for premonitions, even if it involves theoretical physics or whatnot. I just think that time is such an interesting subject to ponder. I wish I knew more about quantum mechanics and all that fun stuff, but my eyes tend to glaze over. It's just slightly over my head. There does seem to be a point where the line between science and spirituality begins to blur, which is really fascinating. Many atheists are materialists...maybe. How many atheists that exist in the world do either of us know? There are millions of atheists. The question should have been phrased as "What do materialists and/or skeptics think about premonitions?" That way there is no confusion. One of my biggest pet peeves it assuming they are one in the same and assuming you know what the majority of atheists think. For me there is no point where science and spirituality begin to blur. One is a scientific method and the other is speculation. Spirituality is also a very vague word that different people use differently and is based on feelings. I love talking about this stuff and answering questions as to what my take is on things is and I like to know what other people's take is on things. As a skeptic (and an atheist due to my skepticism) I can answer any questions you have for me as one individual. I also pay a lot of attention to science, though when getting to specifics I know less. Theoretical physics is over my head for example. I am a very curious person who likes to learn.
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Post by moviemouth on Feb 24, 2021 3:22:27 GMT
1. Premonitions have nothing to do with God, therefor they aren't connected to atheism. In order for anything to be linked to God, God would be need to be shown to exist first. 2. I have never seen any proof that anyone has had a premonition. You are just some person on the internet who says he has had premonitions. This has to do with me being a skeptic. There is nothing about atheism that says you can't believe in other "supernatural" stuff. There are atheists who believe in ghosts etc. I am an open minded person, but when it comes to "supernatural" stuff I need hard evidence that people actually are seeing the future, not just people saying they do. Also, even if they did see the future, there seems to be no way to explain why they do, so the answer becomes not that it is supernatural, but that we don't know why the are able to do this. The people who say they can do this don't seem to have a gift that actually serves much purpose either. If they were able to do it on a whim that would be different and then they would be able to prove that they could do it to everyone else. It would be known to everyone that this is a thing that is real, because it would be the most important discovery in the history of mankind. I do love talking about this kind of stuff and I am not writing you off. That is what skepticism is. That I will believe something when the evidence is sufficient for me to believe it. If I believed you had premonitions I would still be an atheist, I just would now believe that some people can see the future. Skeptics aren't people who just stubbornly won't believe stuff. Is the singularity of a black hole supernatural? My point is that even if we don't know the answers to something doesn't make it supernatural. I understand that God and the supernatural are not necessarily one in the same, but most atheists are materialists. I was just curious as to whether there was some scientific explanation for premonitions, even if it involves theoretical physics or whatnot. I just think that time is such an interesting subject to ponder. I wish I knew more about quantum mechanics and all that fun stuff, but my eyes tend to glaze over. It's just slightly over my head. There does seem to be a point where the line between science and spirituality begins to blur, which is really fascinating. Materialism - The belief that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications. I lean that way, because I have seen no evidence that there is anything else. That doesn't mean I am convinced that the material world is the only thing there is. There is a distinction. I don't exactly consider myself a materialist in the hard sense of the word.
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