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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 13:47:41 GMT
Agree with all this here but my only question is, do you think he’d have those two rings if not for Jordan’s mini-retirement? As a Jordan fan I say the Bulls would've swept the Finals for eight straight years, but everyone says Jordan would've tired out. Who knows? What I do know is Olajuwon's numbers wouldn't have been changed by Jordan's presence, and he still would've made it at least to the finals those two years. Embiid hasn't even made a conference Finals in a weaker conference. I'm a known Embiid hater, but I'm not saying he's a bum. Frogs is just swimming in hyperbole as usual. If he were to say, "Embiid is more versatile than Olajuwon offensively," or "Embiid is playing at an MVP level right now," these are defensible positions to take. To say Embiid is a better overall player or more dominant than peak Olajuwon is just plain wrong. Versatile is just another way of saying which I've been saying all along
Jo-Jo's 'Skillset' is much better than Dream's
No big man ever - ever - in the history of the game has the whole package like Jo-Jo
Not Wilt, not Russell, not Kareem, not Shaq, not Dream,
. .
Nobody
Jo-Jo - can dominate anywhere. Inside, outside, midrange, ISO, getting double and triple teamed, 3pt, FT line, defensively....
The Whole Package - better combined 'Skill Set' than anybody in the history of the game
It's never been seen before as it's never been done before
We're watching something special here folks - and we'll likely never see it again.
Best to sit back and appreciate it - soak it in
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 13:51:46 GMT
As a Jordan fan I say the Bulls would've swept the Finals for eight straight years, but everyone says Jordan would've tired out. Who knows? What I do know is Olajuwon's numbers wouldn't have been changed by Jordan's presence, and he still would've made it at least to the finals those two years. Embiid hasn't even made a conference Finals in a weaker conference. I'm a known Embiid hater, but I'm not saying he's a bum. Frogs is just swimming in hyperbole as usual. If he were to say, "Embiid is more versatile than Olajuwon offensively," or "Embiid is playing at an MVP level right now," these are defensible positions to take. To say Embiid is a better overall player or more dominant than peak Olajuwon is just plain wrong. Versatile is just another way of saying which I've been saying all along
Jo-Jo's 'Skillset' is much better than Dream's
No big man ever - ever - in the history of the game has the whole package like Jo-Jo
Not Wilt, not Russell, not Kareem, not Shaq, not Dream,
. .
Nobody
Jo-Jo - can dominate anywhere. Inside, outside, midrange, ISO, getting double and triple teamed, 3pt, FT line, defensively....
The Whole Package - better combined 'Skill Set' than anybody in the history of the game
It's never been seen before as it's never been done before
We're watching something special here folks - and we'll likely never see it again.
Best to sit back and appreciate it - soak it in
Not when you factor in the defense. Olajuwon dominated at both ends in a deeper league-- much deeper at his own position.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 14:00:00 GMT
Not when you factor in the defense. Olajuwon dominated at both ends in a deeper league-- much deeper at his own position. You can only play who's in front of you no? 
Not Jo-Jo's fault he has to go up against the Celtics multiple times per year who haven't had a good Center since the Reagan Administration
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 14:50:04 GMT
Not when you factor in the defense. Olajuwon dominated at both ends in a deeper league-- much deeper at his own position. You can only play who's in front of you no? 
Not Jo-Jo's fault he has to go up against the Celtics multiple times per year who haven't had a good Center since the Reagan Administration
So you're admitting you have no argument. He isn't as good as Dream because he isn't as dominant at both ends, against weaker competition. The Celtics don't have a quality center yet they keep beating the Sixers in the playoffs with ease, what does that say about Embiid? Good stuff as always, Frogs.
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Post by SportsFan19 on Mar 3, 2021 15:44:35 GMT
As a Jordan fan I say the Bulls would've swept the Finals for eight straight years, but everyone says Jordan would've tired out. Who knows? What I do know is Olajuwon's numbers wouldn't have been changed by Jordan's presence, and he still would've made it at least to the finals those two years. Embiid hasn't even made a conference Finals in a weaker conference. I'm a known Embiid hater, but I'm not saying he's a bum. Frogs is just swimming in hyperbole as usual. If he were to say, "Embiid is more versatile than Olajuwon offensively," or "Embiid is playing at an MVP level right now," these are defensible positions to take. To say Embiid is a better overall player or more dominant than peak Olajuwon is just plain wrong. Versatile is just another way of saying which I've been saying all along
Jo-Jo's 'Skillset' is much better than Dream's
No big man ever - ever - in the history of the game has the whole package like Jo-Jo
Not Wilt, not Russell, not Kareem, not Shaq, not Dream,
. .
Nobody
Jo-Jo - can dominate anywhere. Inside, outside, midrange, ISO, getting double and triple teamed, 3pt, FT line, defensively....
The Whole Package - better combined 'Skill Set' than anybody in the history of the game
It's never been seen before as it's never been done before
We're watching something special here folks - and we'll likely never see it again.
Best to sit back and appreciate it - soak it in
You just described a half dozen current/recent soft big men. Embiid, while good, would rank behind Cousins (pre-injuries), Nikola Jokic, Antetokounmpo and AD, probably ahead of KAT. Behind Blake Griffen from 5 years ago.
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Mar 3, 2021 16:10:27 GMT
Scoring was actually at it's peak in the 60s. In 62, the average scoring was 118 and for the decade, it was on the higher end. Even the so-called "tough" 80s, the average scoring for the decade was 109. They scored a lot. The so-called "physical" defense during these eras was exaggerated. Nobody said the 60s was the era of physical defense-- but you had more leeway in terms of physicality in those days than you do today. The Celtics routinely averaged in the 120s back in those days, and they had the best defensive center ever. The game was more up tempo overall compared to what it became in the late 80s/90s. The bully ball style made popular by the Bad Boy Pistons made basketball a slog at times in the 90s. If you go back and watch games from even ten years ago you'll see an enormous difference in style of play compared to today. Terms like 'no layups' or 'playoff foul' didn't come from nowhere. You sent messages back then, today you might get tossed if your arm hits the guy in the head after you block his shot. Things only got uglier when they moved the 3 point line closer, in 94-95 through 96-97. The idea was to open up the game with more threes, but it backfired. Shooting percentages plummeted because now every backup center thought he should shoot threes; and with the line being closer, it was actually easier for the defense to rotate out to 3 point shooters. Look at the final scores from the 1998 Finals. These were the best two teams in the league featuring multiple Hall of Fame players on both sides. Bully ball, and then collecting big men to hack defenders became the trend once Shaq came into the league. It was almost like hockey, you had guys who were there to score and guys who were there to collect fouls and slow down the other team's offensive flow. There isn't any exaggeration about the physicality of those eras. Go back and watch the games. The Pistons were insane. Watch the Pistons/Bulls in their heyday. Hell, watch McHale clothesline Rambis in the 84 Finals and not get thrown out. Watch Parish literally punch Bill Laimbeer multiple times in the middle of the game, and they didn't even call a foul. This was revenge for this, by the way. You can easily fall down a rabbit hole on youtube of hard fouls and brawls that erupted in those days. Still think the physicality is exaggerated? Can't wait to see Steph Curry mixing it up like this. I'm saying the physical defense didn't affect the scoring that much during those eras. Teams still scored regardless. The highest scoring game of all time took place in the 80s between Nuggets and Pistons. The final score was 186-184 with three overtimes. Again, the league average during the 80s was 109, the so called "tough" defense didn't slow down the scoring. The scoring in the 90s was actually similar to the 2010s with the exception of last three seasons. Just look at the scoring averages till the 2017-18 season. There were more free throws and fouls in the 80s and 90s as compared to this era. Saying that this era has too many fouls is totally false. And, yes the physical defense was exaggerated as it didn't deter teams from scoring a lot, especially in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 16:46:20 GMT
Nobody said the 60s was the era of physical defense-- but you had more leeway in terms of physicality in those days than you do today. The Celtics routinely averaged in the 120s back in those days, and they had the best defensive center ever. The game was more up tempo overall compared to what it became in the late 80s/90s. The bully ball style made popular by the Bad Boy Pistons made basketball a slog at times in the 90s. If you go back and watch games from even ten years ago you'll see an enormous difference in style of play compared to today. Terms like 'no layups' or 'playoff foul' didn't come from nowhere. You sent messages back then, today you might get tossed if your arm hits the guy in the head after you block his shot. Things only got uglier when they moved the 3 point line closer, in 94-95 through 96-97. The idea was to open up the game with more threes, but it backfired. Shooting percentages plummeted because now every backup center thought he should shoot threes; and with the line being closer, it was actually easier for the defense to rotate out to 3 point shooters. Look at the final scores from the 1998 Finals. These were the best two teams in the league featuring multiple Hall of Fame players on both sides. Bully ball, and then collecting big men to hack defenders became the trend once Shaq came into the league. It was almost like hockey, you had guys who were there to score and guys who were there to collect fouls and slow down the other team's offensive flow. There isn't any exaggeration about the physicality of those eras. Go back and watch the games. The Pistons were insane. Watch the Pistons/Bulls in their heyday. Hell, watch McHale clothesline Rambis in the 84 Finals and not get thrown out. Watch Parish literally punch Bill Laimbeer multiple times in the middle of the game, and they didn't even call a foul. This was revenge for this, by the way. You can easily fall down a rabbit hole on youtube of hard fouls and brawls that erupted in those days. Still think the physicality is exaggerated? Can't wait to see Steph Curry mixing it up like this. I'm saying the physical defense didn't affect the scoring that much during those eras. Teams still scored regardless. The highest scoring game of all time took place in the 80s between Nuggets and Pistons. The final score was 186-184 with three overtimes. Again, the league average during the 80s was 109, the so called "tough" defense didn't slow down the scoring. The scoring in the 90s was actually similar to the 2010s with the exception of last two seasons. Just look at the scoring averages till the 2017-18 season. There were more free throws and fouls compared to this era. Saying that this era has too many fouls is totally false. And, yes the physical defense was exaggerated as it didn't deter teams from scoring a lot, especially in the 60s and 80s. This is the point, you had to earn it. Everyone plays matador defense today because everything is a foul. Replay after replay after replay to see if a guy followed through too much on a blocked shot, so it can be determined a flagrant 1 or 2. It's impossible to say the defensive intensity was exaggerated when the video evidence proves otherwise. It was a much more physical league back then. Looking at scoring averages alone doesn't explain the differences in style of play. Go back and actually watch the games instead of basing your opinion on numbers you found. Watch the games. The leagues in the late 80s-90s was much more physical than it is today, and points were earned, as your free throws anecdote points out. Like I said earlier, the term 'playoff foul' didn't come from nowhere. You aren't allowed to do that stuff anymore. The physicality of past eras made the game harder and shortened careers, this is indisputable. The physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. Put an 80s-90s superstar in todays league and they wouldn't believe how easy it is to score. Put today's superstars in the late 80s-90s (post McHale clothesline, prime Bad Boys and Ewing Knicks era, so stop using a lone game from 1983 as the quintessential '80s-90s era' NBA) and they'd start crying after their first hard foul. I'm not mellowmoviereview so you don't need to defend LeBron to me. LeBron predates the soft league we have on our hands now. I take more issue with the pure shooters that don't do much else, like Curry and Klay, or flop artists like Harden. These guys wouldn't have thrived in those days (again 'those days' being the latter half of the 80s and the entire decade of the 90s), they would've been serviceable at best. Harden I could see being a quality player, but Klay and Steph would've been role players. Never mind hard fouls, some good ol' hand checking would've made their life miserable. Learn more about those eras. Read about the style of play, not just statistics. Jim Loscutoff had his number retired by the Celtics and he averaged 6 points a game for his career. His nickname was 'Jungle Jim' because he was built like a beast and his job was to come into the game and throw people around if they got out of line. That role doesn't exist in today's NBA. See? Even when the league was putting up tons of points in an up tempo style of play, the game was still rough in a way it just isn't today. The athletes today are as talented as they've ever been in this league, that isn't a question. I don't love the three point crazy format (which is highly ironic if you had grown up playing basketball with me), but today's NBA requires a level of skill from more of its players overall than it did in the past. They aren't a bunch of bums out there. But there is an enormous difference in physicality from the old days to today, and that should be taken into consideration when comparing legacies and the overall impact on a player's accomplishments.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 17:06:10 GMT
You can only play who's in front of you no? 
Not Jo-Jo's fault he has to go up against the Celtics multiple times per year who haven't had a good Center since the Reagan Administration
So you're admitting you have no argument. He isn't as good as Dream because he isn't as dominant at both ends, against weaker competition. The Celtics don't have a quality center yet they keep beating the Sixers in the playoffs with ease, what does that say about Embiid? Good stuff as always, Frogs. He isn't as dominant on both ends?
Oh Rey, you rascal you.....
Jo-Jo -
Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year (2014) Big 12 All-Defensive Team (2014) Big 12 All-Newcomer Team (2014) 2X NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2018, 2019)
And Jo-Jo's only played 238 games in his career not including the playoffs - he's still a baby
Jo-Jo is a game changer on both sides of the ball
My whole point all along is nobody has ever seen a Skill Set like Jo-Jo - he's the complete package. Where others players may have a flaw here or a flaw there - Jo-Jo has 0
Would he be and should he be regarded as better than Dream and Shaq right now? No. I never said that. But he's trending that way and his skillset is better. Obviously he has to get some rings - they're coming...
We need to see how this all unfolds.
Time will tell.
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Mar 3, 2021 17:22:42 GMT
I'm saying the physical defense didn't affect the scoring that much during those eras. Teams still scored regardless. The highest scoring game of all time took place in the 80s between Nuggets and Pistons. The final score was 186-184 with three overtimes. Again, the league average during the 80s was 109, the so called "tough" defense didn't slow down the scoring. The scoring in the 90s was actually similar to the 2010s with the exception of last two seasons. Just look at the scoring averages till the 2017-18 season. There were more free throws and fouls compared to this era. Saying that this era has too many fouls is totally false. And, yes the physical defense was exaggerated as it didn't deter teams from scoring a lot, especially in the 60s and 80s. This is the point, you had to earn it. Everyone plays matador defense today because everything is a foul. Replay after replay after replay to see if a guy followed through too much on a blocked shot, so it can be determined a flagrant 1 or 2. It's impossible to say the defensive intensity was exaggerated when the video evidence proves otherwise. It was a much more physical league back then. Looking at scoring averages alone doesn't explain the differences in style of play. Go back and actually watch the games instead of basing your opinion on numbers you found. Watch the games. The leagues in the late 80s-90s was much more physical than it is today, and points were earned, as your free throws anecdote points out. Like I said earlier, the term 'playoff foul' didn't come from nowhere. You aren't allowed to do that stuff anymore. The physicality of past eras made the game harder and shortened careers, this is indisputable. The physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. Put an 80s-90s superstar in todays league and they wouldn't believe how easy it is to score. Put today's superstars in the late 80s-90s (post McHale clothesline, prime Bad Boys and Ewing Knicks era, so stop using a lone game from 1983 as the quintessential '80s-90s era' NBA) and they'd start crying after their first hard foul. I'm not mellowmoviereview so you don't need to defend LeBron to me. LeBron predates the soft league we have on our hands now. I take more issue with the pure shooters that don't do much else, like Curry and Klay, or flop artists like Harden. These guys wouldn't have thrived in those days (again 'those days' being the latter half of the 80s and the entire decade of the 90s), they would've been serviceable at best. Harden I could see being a quality player, but Klay and Steph would've been role players. Never mind hard fouls, some good ol' hand checking would've made their life miserable. Learn more about those eras. Read about the style of play, not just statistics. Jim Loscutoff had his number retired by the Celtics and he averaged 6 points a game for his career. His nickname was 'Jungle Jim' because he was built like a beast and his job was to come into the game and throw people around if they got out of line. That role doesn't exist in today's NBA. See? Even when the league was putting up tons of points in an up tempo style of play, the game was still rough in a way it just isn't today. The athletes today are as talented as they've ever been in this league, that isn't a question. I don't love the three point crazy format (which is highly ironic if you had grown up playing basketball with me), but today's NBA requires a level of skill from more of its players overall than it did in the past. They aren't a bunch of bums out there. But there is an enormous difference in physicality from the old days to today, and that should be taken into consideration when comparing legacies and the overall impact on a player's accomplishments. We've had this discussion before. You always bring up hypothetical scenarios on how todays players wouldn't have dominated in the 80s and 90s and how players from those eras would have dominated today. You stated that the physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. What makes you think todays players couldn't have adjusted their game to the physical style play of those eras? There's literally no way to know this since it's completely hypothetical. You're trying to prove something that can never happen. Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson would have been "role players"? Hahahahahahaha you have great imagination. Your bias against todays game is obvious and your close-mindedness shows. You're hellbent on trying to prove something that's just a big fantasy. This is typical "old heads" thinking. They refuse to let go of the past.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 17:46:42 GMT
This is the point, you had to earn it. Everyone plays matador defense today because everything is a foul. Replay after replay after replay to see if a guy followed through too much on a blocked shot, so it can be determined a flagrant 1 or 2. It's impossible to say the defensive intensity was exaggerated when the video evidence proves otherwise. It was a much more physical league back then. Looking at scoring averages alone doesn't explain the differences in style of play. Go back and actually watch the games instead of basing your opinion on numbers you found. Watch the games. The leagues in the late 80s-90s was much more physical than it is today, and points were earned, as your free throws anecdote points out. Like I said earlier, the term 'playoff foul' didn't come from nowhere. You aren't allowed to do that stuff anymore. The physicality of past eras made the game harder and shortened careers, this is indisputable. The physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. Put an 80s-90s superstar in todays league and they wouldn't believe how easy it is to score. Put today's superstars in the late 80s-90s (post McHale clothesline, prime Bad Boys and Ewing Knicks era, so stop using a lone game from 1983 as the quintessential '80s-90s era' NBA) and they'd start crying after their first hard foul. I'm not mellowmoviereview so you don't need to defend LeBron to me. LeBron predates the soft league we have on our hands now. I take more issue with the pure shooters that don't do much else, like Curry and Klay, or flop artists like Harden. These guys wouldn't have thrived in those days (again 'those days' being the latter half of the 80s and the entire decade of the 90s), they would've been serviceable at best. Harden I could see being a quality player, but Klay and Steph would've been role players. Never mind hard fouls, some good ol' hand checking would've made their life miserable. Learn more about those eras. Read about the style of play, not just statistics. Jim Loscutoff had his number retired by the Celtics and he averaged 6 points a game for his career. His nickname was 'Jungle Jim' because he was built like a beast and his job was to come into the game and throw people around if they got out of line. That role doesn't exist in today's NBA. See? Even when the league was putting up tons of points in an up tempo style of play, the game was still rough in a way it just isn't today. The athletes today are as talented as they've ever been in this league, that isn't a question. I don't love the three point crazy format (which is highly ironic if you had grown up playing basketball with me), but today's NBA requires a level of skill from more of its players overall than it did in the past. They aren't a bunch of bums out there. But there is an enormous difference in physicality from the old days to today, and that should be taken into consideration when comparing legacies and the overall impact on a player's accomplishments. We've had this discussion before. You always bring up hypothetical scenarios on how todays player wouldn't have dominated in the 80s and 90s and how players from those eras would have dominated today. You stated that the physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. What makes you think todays players couldn't have adjusted their game to the physical style play of those eras? There's literally no way to know this since it's completely hypothetical. You're trying to prove something that can never happen. Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson would have been "role players"? Hahahahahahaha you have great imagination. Your bias against todays game is obvious and your close-mindedness shows. You're hellbent on trying to prove something that's just a big fantasy. This is typical "old heads" thinking. They refuse to let go of the past. What's the fantasy? Because I provided anecdotes and video evidence of rough play in the NBA. You've provided your opinion, and the term 'old heads.' We have had this discussion before, and I've explained it before. Which do you think is the bigger adjustment, going from physical defense to no defense, or vice versa? Ok then. My bias against today's game is obvious because I've openly stated it many times. The difference is, I've seen basketball in real time in the 80s and 90s and today, so I know the difference. Klay Thompson is Dale Ellis (a very good player, hardly a legendary talent) in the 80s-90s, Curry is Steve Kerr. That's my opinion and you can disagree with it, but it isn't fantasy. It's an argument based on experience from being a basketball fan since the 1980s. I watched basketball in real time back then, and I read books about the history of basketball. You should try it sometime, maybe then you'll outgrow the goofy 'old heads' stuff.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 17:52:51 GMT
So you're admitting you have no argument. He isn't as good as Dream because he isn't as dominant at both ends, against weaker competition. The Celtics don't have a quality center yet they keep beating the Sixers in the playoffs with ease, what does that say about Embiid? Good stuff as always, Frogs. He isn't as dominant on both ends?
Oh Rey, you rascal you.....
Jo-Jo -
Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year (2014) Big 12 All-Defensive Team (2014) Big 12 All-Newcomer Team (2014) 2X NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2018, 2019)
And Jo-Jo's only played 238 games in his career not including the playoffs - he's still a baby
Jo-Jo is a game changer on both sides of the ball
My whole point all along is nobody has ever seen a Skill Set like Jo-Jo - he's the complete package. Where others players may have a flaw here or a flaw there - Jo-Jo has 0
Would he be and should he be regarded as better than Dream and Shaq right now? No. I never said that. But he's trending that way and his skillset is better. Obviously he has to get some rings - they're coming...
We need to see how this all unfolds.
Time will tell.
No, he isn't. I proved this yesterday when I posted Dream's stats from his prime. Embiid is garbage on defense compared to Olajuwon. It isn't even a debate. You posted three college accolades. You know how many shitty NBA busts have a great list of college accolades? Embiid is a great player, but what he did in college means nothing. Other than being brittle, both physically and mentally? A flawless player got swept out of the playoffs by the Celtics featuring Daniel Thies at center last year?
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Mar 3, 2021 17:57:07 GMT
We've had this discussion before. You always bring up hypothetical scenarios on how todays player wouldn't have dominated in the 80s and 90s and how players from those eras would have dominated today. You stated that the physical defense didn't affect the scoring average because those players grew up with that style of play. What makes you think todays players couldn't have adjusted their game to the physical style play of those eras? There's literally no way to know this since it's completely hypothetical. You're trying to prove something that can never happen. Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson would have been "role players"? Hahahahahahaha you have great imagination. Your bias against todays game is obvious and your close-mindedness shows. You're hellbent on trying to prove something that's just a big fantasy. This is typical "old heads" thinking. They refuse to let go of the past. What's the fantasy? Because I provided anecdotes and video evidence of rough play in the NBA. You've provided your opinion, and the term 'old heads.' We have had this discussion before, and I've explained it before. Which do you think is the bigger adjustment, going from physical defense to no defense, or vice versa? Ok then. My bias against today's game is obvious because I've openly stated it many times. The difference is, I've seen basketball in real time in the 80s and 90s and today, so I know the difference. Klay Thompson is Dale Ellis (a very good player, hardly a legendary talent) in the 80s-90s, Curry is Steve Kerr. That's my opinion and you can disagree with it, but it isn't fantasy. It's an argument based on experience from being a basketball fan since the 1980s. I watched basketball in real time back then, and I read books about the history of basketball. You should try it sometime, maybe then you'll outgrow the goofy 'old heads' stuff. Yeah, a self-proclaimed basketball expert. You said "Which do you think is the bigger adjustment, going from physical defense to no defense, or vice versa?" If todays players played in the 80s and 90s, they would have trained according to the playing style of that era, in order to withstand the physical defense. It's all hypothetical. And Klay Thompson as Dale Ellis and Stephen Curry as Steve Kerr if they played in the 80s and 90s is completely hypothetical nonsense. Keep living in fantasy. You opinion on this is not a fact and it's pure fantasy. Your arrogance shows. I'll quote The Big Lebowski here: " Well, you know, that's just like your opinion man."
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 18:03:24 GMT
No, he isn't. I proved this yesterday when I posted Dream's stats from his prime. Embiid is garbage on defense compared to Olajuwon. It isn't even a debate. You posted three college accolades. You know how many shitty NBA busts have a great list of college accolades? Embiid is a great player, but what he did in college means nothing. Other than being brittle, both physically and mentally? A flawless player got swept out of the playoffs by the Celtics featuring Daniel Thies at center last year? 'Embiid is garbage on defense.......'
Ohhhhh.......
My sides 
Ouch. Stop. Stop....... 
Ahhhhh...phewwwww!!!
Thanks for the laugh Rey - I stopped right there.....
On that note I'm going to exit Stage Right - Jo-Jo garbage on defense - 
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 18:11:23 GMT
What's the fantasy? Because I provided anecdotes and video evidence of rough play in the NBA. You've provided your opinion, and the term 'old heads.' We have had this discussion before, and I've explained it before. Which do you think is the bigger adjustment, going from physical defense to no defense, or vice versa? Ok then. My bias against today's game is obvious because I've openly stated it many times. The difference is, I've seen basketball in real time in the 80s and 90s and today, so I know the difference. Klay Thompson is Dale Ellis (a very good player, hardly a legendary talent) in the 80s-90s, Curry is Steve Kerr. That's my opinion and you can disagree with it, but it isn't fantasy. It's an argument based on experience from being a basketball fan since the 1980s. I watched basketball in real time back then, and I read books about the history of basketball. You should try it sometime, maybe then you'll outgrow the goofy 'old heads' stuff. Yeah, a self-proclaimed basketball expert. And Klay Thompson as Dale Ellis and Stephen Curry as Steve Kerr if they played in the 80s and 90s is completely hypothetical nonsense. Keep living in fantasy. You opinion on this is not a fact and it's pure fantasy. Your arrogance shows. I'll quote The Big Lebowski here: " Well, you know, that's just like your opinion man." Yes, it is my educated opinion. Try getting one of your own. Of course it's hypothetical, unless you've invented time travel? All sports debates are hypothetical. Try making an actual argument instead of just calling me names. How is it Curry and Thompson, who thrive on the well spaced, minimal contact game of today dominate the same way when defenders would be right up on them all the time? You still don't understand it isn't about hard fouls, it's about physical defense in general. They aren't known for driving the lane, they have a limited offensive repertoire. The only way they'd put up big numbers would be if they were on a team with a dominant big, so they got open looks all night. Tell me how it would work in your fantasy world. I'm providing a hypothetical scenario, you can't even do that. "They'd figure it out." Great argument.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 18:15:44 GMT
What's the fantasy? Because I provided anecdotes and video evidence of rough play in the NBA. You've provided your opinion, and the term 'old heads.' We have had this discussion before, and I've explained it before. Which do you think is the bigger adjustment, going from physical defense to no defense, or vice versa? Ok then. My bias against today's game is obvious because I've openly stated it many times. The difference is, I've seen basketball in real time in the 80s and 90s and today, so I know the difference. Klay Thompson is Dale Ellis (a very good player, hardly a legendary talent) in the 80s-90s, Curry is Steve Kerr. That's my opinion and you can disagree with it, but it isn't fantasy. It's an argument based on experience from being a basketball fan since the 1980s. I watched basketball in real time back then, and I read books about the history of basketball. You should try it sometime, maybe then you'll outgrow the goofy 'old heads' stuff. If todays players played in the 80s and 90s, they would have trained according to the playing style of that era, in order to withstand the physical defense. But they didn't. So your argument means nothing. Their style of play is based on a wide open, free flowing game. The dominant players of that 80s-90s era played in a bruising league, how do you think it would affect their numbers to not have to deal with physical defense? How are you not understanding the difference? Transplant Steph Curry into that era and how would he play immediately? Transplant prime Bird, Jordan, Magic, Barkley, etc into today's NBA and what adjustments would they have to make to score the basketball? Get it?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 18:17:07 GMT
No, he isn't. I proved this yesterday when I posted Dream's stats from his prime. Embiid is garbage on defense compared to Olajuwon. It isn't even a debate. You posted three college accolades. You know how many shitty NBA busts have a great list of college accolades? Embiid is a great player, but what he did in college means nothing. Other than being brittle, both physically and mentally? A flawless player got swept out of the playoffs by the Celtics featuring Daniel Thies at center last year? 'Embiid is garbage on defense.......'
Ohhhhh.......
My sides 
Ouch. Stop. Stop....... 
Ahhhhh...phewwwww!!!
Thanks for the laugh Rey - I stopped right there.....
On that note I'm going to exit Stage Right - Jo-Jo garbage on defense - 
Like I said, Frogs. Good stuff, as always.
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Mar 3, 2021 18:19:36 GMT
Yeah, a self-proclaimed basketball expert. And Klay Thompson as Dale Ellis and Stephen Curry as Steve Kerr if they played in the 80s and 90s is completely hypothetical nonsense. Keep living in fantasy. You opinion on this is not a fact and it's pure fantasy. Your arrogance shows. I'll quote The Big Lebowski here: " Well, you know, that's just like your opinion man." Yes, it is my educated opinion. Try getting one of your own. Of course it's hypothetical, unless you've invented time travel? All sports debates are hypothetical. Try making an actual argument instead of just calling me names. How is it Curry and Thompson, who thrive on the well spaced, minimal contact game of today dominate the same way when defenders would be right up on them all the time? You still don't understand it isn't about hard fouls, it's about physical defense in general. They aren't known for driving the lane, they have a limited offensive repertoire. The only way they'd put up big numbers would be if they were on a team with a dominant big, so they got open looks all night. Tell me how it would work in your fantasy world. I'm providing a hypothetical scenario, you can't even do that. "They'd figure it out." Great argument. Again, you're litreally asking about something that can't be proved. If Curry and Thompson played in the 80s and 90s, they would have trained according to the playing style of that era, in order to withstand the physical defense. They would've adjusted. This is the same pointless argument we had before. It's always going to be hypothetical, no matter what you say. This can never be proved. There's no way to explain a dunderhead like you.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 3, 2021 18:21:46 GMT
Yes, it is my educated opinion. Try getting one of your own. Of course it's hypothetical, unless you've invented time travel? All sports debates are hypothetical. Try making an actual argument instead of just calling me names. How is it Curry and Thompson, who thrive on the well spaced, minimal contact game of today dominate the same way when defenders would be right up on them all the time? You still don't understand it isn't about hard fouls, it's about physical defense in general. They aren't known for driving the lane, they have a limited offensive repertoire. The only way they'd put up big numbers would be if they were on a team with a dominant big, so they got open looks all night. Tell me how it would work in your fantasy world. I'm providing a hypothetical scenario, you can't even do that. "They'd figure it out." Great argument. Again, you're litreally asking about something that can't be proved. If Curry and Thompson played in the 80s and 90s, they would have trained according to the playing style of that era, in order to withstand the physical defense. They would've adjusted. This is the same pointless argument we had before. It's always going to be hypothetical, no matter what you say. There's no way to explain a dunderhead like you. No, I'm talking about this version of those players. Try again. Jordan of the 80s and 90s would dominate today if he appeared out of a time machine. How would Curry and Steph do in a more physical league? The fact that you won't answer that question speaks volumes.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 18:22:19 GMT
Like I said, Frogs. Good stuff, as always. I'd argue Dream is garbage at FT%, 3PT%, PPG, APG and RPG compared to Jo-Jo 
See how this works? 
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Mar 3, 2021 18:22:59 GMT
Did Rey really say Steph was Steve Kerr? 
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