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Post by Rodney Farber on Mar 5, 2021 16:10:41 GMT
- Homer Simpson – Season 04, “Homer the Heretic”
It amazes me that most theists are absitively sure, without reservation, that the Jehovah/Yahweh/Lord to whom they pray is the correct one.
What makes you so sure?
There are several religions that originated in the USA/Colonies, which are only 400 years old. I mean: If Jehovah wanted me to be a Mormon (or JW, or Christian Scientist, or a Scientologist), why did he wait 6000 years to start that religion?
If the world was created 6000 years ago, why did God wait 4000 years before bringing Christianity to the earth?
If Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, are now known to be fictitious, will Jesus, Mohammad, Adam, Eve, Moses all be fictional characters in 2000 years.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,708
Likes: 1,348
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Post by The Lost One on Mar 5, 2021 16:53:20 GMT
The number one reason people believe in a particular version of God is because their cultural background dictates that they simply are unable to believe in the alternatives. The reason that for many Zeus is invalid and Yahweh is not is because belief in Zeus just seems ridiculous to them where Yahweh does not. They may well admit that Zeus and Yahweh are equally plausible if viewed from a disinterested position, but they only have the capacity to believe in the latter so Zeus is dismissed out of hand.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 5, 2021 20:11:32 GMT
I went through a long process, I was brought up agnostically but I felt atheist, then I started looking at the occult and eventually moved towards Christian mysticism.
Yes at the end of the day the stories around a higher power that are written in my cultural paradigm speak best to me, but I don't believe that my God is the only one, in fact I would go as far as to say all gods are the cultural manifestation of trying to explain the same thing, so no (no hockey religion, so leaving out cults etc) is actually wrong it's simply a different interpretation.
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Post by general313 on Mar 5, 2021 20:31:48 GMT
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Post by goz on Mar 5, 2021 21:20:36 GMT
For me it was simple. I am an agnostic atheist because I didn't have to do anything.  An absence of whatever seemed the only reasonable choice under the curcumstances you outline. |
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 5, 2021 23:46:04 GMT
Most people choose their religion because its the religion of their parents and culture.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 6, 2021 1:18:33 GMT
Most people choose their religion because its the religion of their parents and culture. Which means they aren't really choosing at all. For most people, it is just "obvious" that the religion they were brought up with is the correct religion and they don't do any research outside of that religion.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 6, 2021 1:22:04 GMT
Most people choose their religion because its the religion of their parents and culture. Which means they aren't really choosing at all. For most people, it is just "obvious" that the religion they were brought up with is the correct religion and they don't do any research outside of that religion. True, they don`t chose their religion, their religion is chosen for them. And that is what its like for most people, some people does choose their religion but that's a minority.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 6, 2021 1:26:52 GMT
I can tell my story when it comes to this stuff very quickly.
When I was very young I didn't know there were other religions.
When I became a teenager I just believed in a generic Christian God, but was an agnostic theist. Maybe there is maybe there isn't, but my upbringing and society pushed me more towards the belief that God is real than that he isn't.
When I thought about it more as an adult I realized that there is no good reason for me to believe any of the religions, nor that a god of any kind exists.
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Post by moviemouth on Mar 6, 2021 1:28:37 GMT
Which means they aren't really choosing at all. For most people, it is just "obvious" that the religion they were brought up with is the correct religion and they don't do any research outside of that religion. True, they don`t chose their religion, their religion is chosen for them. And that is what its like for most people, some people does choose their religion but that's a minority. I still don't know if it is a choice though. I think these people go looking for answers and then they end up believing a certain religion for whatever reason. Unless you mean the people that don't actually believe it, but like what it does for them in their life. Buddhism for example. You can follow the teachings of Buddhism and not believe that there is a spiritual world.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 6, 2021 13:47:18 GMT
True, they don`t chose their religion, their religion is chosen for them. And that is what its like for most people, some people does choose their religion but that's a minority. I still don't know if it is a choice though. I think these people go looking for answers and then they end up believing a certain religion for whatever reason. Unless you mean the people that don't actually believe it, but like what it does for them in their life. Buddhism for example. You can follow the teachings of Buddhism and not believe that there is a spiritual world. I guess, but personally i would say its more of a choice if lets say a Christian from the US becomes a Hindu, than a Christian in the US staying a Christian.
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Post by mystery on Mar 6, 2021 14:11:08 GMT
My spiritual path is based on my personal experiences and philosophies. I was raised Evangelical, but began struggling with my faith before I was even a teenager. I finally decided to read the Bible to help strengthen my faith, and obviously, that didn't work so well. I went through an atheist phase, and then began exploring different religions. In the end, I decided just forge my own path, rather than merely following other people's interpretations of Divinity.
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Post by movieliker on Mar 6, 2021 21:27:16 GMT
- Homer Simpson – Season 04, “Homer the Heretic”
It amazes me that most theists are absitively sure, without reservation, that the Jehovah/Yahweh/Lord to whom they pray is the correct one.
What makes you so sure?
There are several religions that originated in the USA/Colonies, which are only 400 years old. I mean: If Jehovah wanted me to be a Mormon (or JW, or Christian Scientist, or a Scientologist), why did he wait 6000 years to start that religion?
If the world was created 6000 years ago, why did God wait 4000 years before bringing Christianity to the earth?
If Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, are now known to be fictitious, will Jesus, Mohammad, Adam, Eve, Moses all be fictional characters in 2000 years.
I was born and raised Catholic. I don't think Christianity is any better than any of the other major religions. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 17, 2021 19:07:31 GMT
My parents chose mine. As an adult, I chose agnostic atheism.
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Post by general313 on Mar 17, 2021 20:57:30 GMT
My parents chose mine. As an adult, I chose agnostic atheism. Mine too, and pretty hard, yet they valued rationality enough to make it less difficult to go my own way as an adult.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 17, 2021 22:18:38 GMT
When I was six years old I asked my dad if God was real. He told me that it was up to me to decide if I thought God was real or not. I remember thinking about it for a long time and came to conclusion that it didn't seem likely.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 18, 2021 4:13:38 GMT
My parents chose mine. As an adult, I chose agnostic atheism. Mine too, and pretty hard, yet they valued rationality enough to make it less difficult to go my own way as an adult. Mine were not rational, and I am still fighting this battle with my 98 year old mother. She is still trying to bring me back into the fold. I've gone my own way as an adult, but my mother does not accept that and brings the subject up, directly or inferred, every time we communicate. It will be a wall between us until she has passed on. Or, as I would say, died. My Dad and I managed to have a good, supportive, genuine relationship, despite my atheism, but my mother is a whole different animal. She is very controlling. She will never reach around that wall, despite my attempts to connect on some other subject. I will always be the bad atheist daughter.
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Post by general313 on Mar 18, 2021 16:46:50 GMT
Mine too, and pretty hard, yet they valued rationality enough to make it less difficult to go my own way as an adult. Mine were not rational, and I am still fighting this battle with my 98 year old mother. She is still trying to bring me back into the fold. I've gone my own way as an adult, but my mother does not accept that and brings the subject up, directly or inferred, every time we communicate. It will be a wall between us until she has passed on. Or, as I would say, died. My Dad and I managed to have a good, supportive, genuine relationship, despite my atheism, but my mother is a whole different animal. She is very controlling. She will never reach around that wall, despite my attempts to connect on some other subject. I will always be the bad atheist daughter. Sorry to hear that. It wasn't easy with mine either (they're both "passed" now). There was always this uncomfortable subconsious tension having to do with them thinking that I was in great jeopardy in the afterlife. It doesn't get much worse than eternal damnation!
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 18, 2021 18:00:21 GMT
Mine were not rational, and I am still fighting this battle with my 98 year old mother. She is still trying to bring me back into the fold. I've gone my own way as an adult, but my mother does not accept that and brings the subject up, directly or inferred, every time we communicate. It will be a wall between us until she has passed on. Or, as I would say, died. My Dad and I managed to have a good, supportive, genuine relationship, despite my atheism, but my mother is a whole different animal. She is very controlling. She will never reach around that wall, despite my attempts to connect on some other subject. I will always be the bad atheist daughter. Sorry to hear that. It wasn't easy with mine either (they're both "passed" now). There was always this uncomfortable subconscious tension having to do with them thinking that I was in great jeopardy in the afterlife. It doesn't get much worse than eternal damnation! Yeah, those hell fires are a concern... for them. It's a shame that some imaginary hereafter threat kept them from having a positive relationship with you in the here and now, the only thing we do know exists. It's almost impossible to agree to disagree. This is one of my main gripes with religion. I think it causes more angst than it 'cures'. They have their complex comforting delusion, but so must everyone they care about, the exact same delusion. If they don't, they are damned. A high price to pay for a false sense of security in a world that seems like chaos. Well, it is kind of chaos... there is no 'plan', we are all just products of evolution and the universe isn't cruel, just indifferent. The tribalism that was at first an evolutionary survival positive has now become a hindrance. Politics, racism, nationalism, religion.... all prevent any sort of a peaceful existence among humans. And as our population continues to grow, so will the friction between 'tribes', no matter what their nature; political, religious or 'other'. Unless our brains grow a bit more. I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 18, 2021 18:45:36 GMT
Mine were not rational, and I am still fighting this battle with my 98 year old mother. She is still trying to bring me back into the fold. I've gone my own way as an adult, but my mother does not accept that and brings the subject up, directly or inferred, every time we communicate. It will be a wall between us until she has passed on. Or, as I would say, died. My Dad and I managed to have a good, supportive, genuine relationship, despite my atheism, but my mother is a whole different animal. She is very controlling. She will never reach around that wall, despite my attempts to connect on some other subject. I will always be the bad atheist daughter. She’s 98, so have you considered just pretending to return to the fold for a few years? That way she dies with some piece of mind. Or is she just about controlling outward appearances and don’t really care what you actually believe? Down at the senior living facility, many of the old dames are into their Jesus and I just nod along. Of course, this isn’t a personal situation for me. Yeah... no. My mother is a narcissist. Control is her deal, and she has been trying to control my life from the word 'go'. It's not about peace of mind for her, it's about having the last word. I am not the daughter she wanted, and I am punished for being myself instead of being her sycophant. My Dad genuinely loved me and we got along on other issues - we were both passionate about environmental issues and ethical treatment of animals, we built stuff together and delighted in a trip to the hardware store, but my mother was never about anything but getting attention. And her involvement in church activities got her that attention. My Dad did church stuff, too, but always behind the scenes, never in the limelight like my mother. He was a simple, good, kind man. He didn't have a knowledge of psychological terminology, so when he told me, as an adult, that "Your mother is a bottomless, black hole of need of attention", I suspected he had been watching Dr. Phil while my mother was out of the house. I did lie to my Dad on his deathbed, telling him that I had a little talk with Jesus (lie) and wherever Dad was going, that's where I was going, too (true - six foot under). I wanted him to have that peace of mind, no matter how delusional it was. But that was in 2004, and my mother knows what I told him was a lie. Passive head-nodding isn't going to fool her, and I just refuse to act like something I'm not, just so she can feel like she won. I have a right to my own life, my own priorities, and I will not let her control me anymore. That ended when I married an atheist. Again, Dad accepted my husband as a good human being and they, too, had a good relationship. But my mother? No f-ing way. They never did get along, though my husband tried to find some common ground. He knew what she was, but he still tried to form some relationship. Never happened.
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