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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 16:58:32 GMT
Because it's budget jumped from $40m up to $70m, and it's a very specific claim, they did not reshoot more than one scene, but with so much special effects they can redo so many scenes with just voice over work, though it technically isn't a reshoot, the claim makes it sound as if this is Snyders original vision, which sounds like utter bullshit, Snyder has had 3 years of added life experience including a massive tragedy, he's got the benefit of hindsight, the world itself changed dramatically and what Snyder's vision never changed? despite the idea for the movie itself changing repeatedly in the last year? Nah to me sounds like spin to try and act like this is the movie we would have got 3 years ago, which just doesn't ring true, especially as a what was a mostly confirmed version of his cut people saw 3 years ago is not like the version we got, Snyder obviously altered some things as you would expect, except he's trying to claim this is his original vision, which like I said I do not buy as a true statement. Edit: Actually it was estimated to cost $20-30m but likely to cost more, but around the time of the reshoots the budget had ballooned to up to $70m, which doesn't that seem like a little too much of a coincidence? then reshoots began supposedly Oct 6th with Heard, Leto and Mangenello joining the reshoots just over 2 weeks later, and Snyder said reshoots only make up 4-5 minutes of new footage, yet the nightmare scene, the supposed only new scene is more like 7 minutes long, and I dunno the Martian Manhunter scene after the nightmare scene does Affleck look smaller in this than he is in the rest of the movie? he looks more in the face as he looks under the cowl for that nightmare scene also, just saying it sounds like spin on Snyder's part is all, and if he's fibbing about that what else could he be fibbing about as well as other people? After all every lied about the Whedon debacle until the Snyder Cut was green lit, so not like we can really trust anyone to be truly honest with this property. The Martian Manhunter scene is a reshoot. I considered it to be part of the same scene as the Knightmare sequence. Everything else was shot back in 2016. As well as the earlier Martian Manhunter scene, all in all that's about 10 minutes of new footage, because apparently that guy who plays him was not originally in the movie to start with, which I don't think was as widely reported, which means if they got him back under the radar what other scenes were filmed without it leaking? also goes to show Snyder is lying, he says 4-5 minutes, he clearly shot almost 10 minutes of new footage, all of which for nothing but a cock tease at a sequel he knows he's not got lined up, so why should we believe the rest of this stuff?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 16:59:44 GMT
The Martian Manhunter scene is a reshoot. I considered it to be part of the same scene as the Knightmare sequence. Everything else was shot back in 2016. As well as the earlier Martian Manhunter scene, all in all that's about 10 minutes of new footage, because apparently that guy who plays him was not originally in the movie to start with, which I don't think was as widely reported, which means if they got him back under the radar what other scenes were filmed without it leaking? also goes to show Snyder is lying, he says 4-5 minutes, he clearly shot almost 10 minutes of new footage, all of which for nothing but a cock tease at a sequel he knows he's not got lined up, so why should we believe the rest of this stuff? The earlier Martian Manhunter scene only needed Harry Lennix to be inserted into the shot, which lasted a few seconds. The scene with Martha talking to Lois was part of the initial photography.
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 17:03:35 GMT
As well as the earlier Martian Manhunter scene, all in all that's about 10 minutes of new footage, because apparently that guy who plays him was not originally in the movie to start with, which I don't think was as widely reported, which means if they got him back under the radar what other scenes were filmed without it leaking? also goes to show Snyder is lying, he says 4-5 minutes, he clearly shot almost 10 minutes of new footage, all of which for nothing but a cock tease at a sequel he knows he's not got lined up, so why should we believe the rest of this stuff? The earlier Martian Manhunter scene only needed Harry Lennix to be inserted into the shot, which lasted a few seconds. The scene with Martha talking to Lois was part of the initial photography. Yes but I was not counting the Martha scene, just the transformation sequence, which tacked onto the last 9 or so minutes of the movie which was also outright new material brings the total to just under 10 minutes of new footage, almost double Snyders claim, if I was counting the full Martha/Lois scene we are talking closer to 15 minutes, which I didn't and we aren't.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 17:07:40 GMT
The earlier Martian Manhunter scene only needed Harry Lennix to be inserted into the shot, which lasted a few seconds. The scene with Martha talking to Lois was part of the initial photography. Yes but I was not counting the Martha scene, just the transformation sequence, which tacked onto the last 9 or so minutes of the movie which was also outright new material brings the total to just under 10 minutes of new footage, almost double Snyders claim, if I was counting the full Martha/Lois scene we are talking closer to 15 minutes, which I didn't and we aren't. Snyder said they already filmed the transformation scene. They just didn’t get the chance to include Harry Lennix.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 19, 2021 17:10:28 GMT
Not just making Whedon look like the devil, but also WB. There’s this screw WB campaign that started. With the sequel bait ending and dropping a “guess what we could do next if they let us” bit of info, the Snyder’s could bully WB with a fan movement like “#releasethesnydercut”. This could be very bad for WB. They can just say screw off, Snyders MOS and BVS, though I like MOS flopped and flopped bad, even with TV and home media sales between the two movies and the near $1b in capitol WB sunk into the pair of them they only made $150m or so in profit, and thats after both failing to turn a profit at the theatres, they own the numbers for HBO Max they can spin this shit anyway they want. But I would not mind a continuation of the Snyderverse, just theatrical movies are not the way to go, he should do straight to streaming where he can have the time to draw the story out as he wants, because this cut even though it's better due to the length would not have been that great a success, and we have to keep in mind it's still the pandemic and loads of us are still jonesing for new content like junkies looking for some smack. WB has been reactionary since after MoS. I don't think they are going to stop catering to fans now. Especially after this. They tried not to go down this road with saying there is no Snyder Cut, but caved so hard that there is no going back. This would be on the same level as Disney remaking the entire sequel Star Wars trilogy because fans are demanding it. Apologizing with Luke was bad, but if they go down the ST road... Oh my. Then, like you said, they have HBO Max to think about. They'd have to do something to keep people around longer than just for this.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 19, 2021 17:12:38 GMT
Yes but I was not counting the Martha scene, just the transformation sequence, which tacked onto the last 9 or so minutes of the movie which was also outright new material brings the total to just under 10 minutes of new footage, almost double Snyders claim, if I was counting the full Martha/Lois scene we are talking closer to 15 minutes, which I didn't and we aren't. Snyder said they already filmed the transformation scene. They just didn’t get the chance to include Harry Lennix. Wouldn't they have shown more than just storyboards for that scene?
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 17:22:00 GMT
Yes but I was not counting the Martha scene, just the transformation sequence, which tacked onto the last 9 or so minutes of the movie which was also outright new material brings the total to just under 10 minutes of new footage, almost double Snyders claim, if I was counting the full Martha/Lois scene we are talking closer to 15 minutes, which I didn't and we aren't. Snyder said they already filmed the transformation scene. They just didn’t get the chance to include Harry Lennix. And he's said this was his original version we were going to see which is a lie, that he only filed 4-5 minutes of footage, again big lie theres almost 10, and how do you film a CGI transformation scene? thats all green screen, only real thing in the shot after we see red eye Martha is Lennix, point is you are referring to claims Snyder has made, which he's been proven to be lying about quite notably infact. Like I kind of don't care too much, but people need to not buy into the this was my original vision thing, because the original snyder cut they showed test audiences tested badly, the Whedon version did better, which is why they went more with Whedon than Snyder in the end, seems unlikely to be true if this is his original cut of the film for the most part.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 17:22:16 GMT
Snyder said they already filmed the transformation scene. They just didn’t get the chance to include Harry Lennix. Wouldn't they have shown more than just storyboards for that scene? The storyboards showed Martian Manhunter turning into Calvin Swanwick, which would’ve required Harry Lennix.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 17:25:45 GMT
Snyder said they already filmed the transformation scene. They just didn’t get the chance to include Harry Lennix. And he's said this was his original version we were going to see which is a lie, that he only filed 4-5 minutes of footage, again big lie theres almost 10, and how do you film a CGI transformation scene? thats all green screen, only real thing in the shot after we see red eye Martha is Lennix, point is you are referring to claims Snyder has made, which he's been proven to be lying about quite notably infact. Like I kind of don't care too much, but people need to not buy into the this was my original vision thing, because the original snyder cut they showed test audiences tested badly, the Whedon version did better, which is why they went more with Whedon than Snyder in the end, seems unlikely to be true if this is his original cut of the film for the most part. Snyder saying that the additional photography would amount to around four or five minutes of footage was an estimate he made before the movie was finished. What reason would he have for lying about how much additional photography they filmed? If you think any other scenes in the movie were reshoots, it might help if you could say what you think they are? Something like that shouldn’t be difficult to spot.
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 17:26:10 GMT
They can just say screw off, Snyders MOS and BVS, though I like MOS flopped and flopped bad, even with TV and home media sales between the two movies and the near $1b in capitol WB sunk into the pair of them they only made $150m or so in profit, and thats after both failing to turn a profit at the theatres, they own the numbers for HBO Max they can spin this shit anyway they want. But I would not mind a continuation of the Snyderverse, just theatrical movies are not the way to go, he should do straight to streaming where he can have the time to draw the story out as he wants, because this cut even though it's better due to the length would not have been that great a success, and we have to keep in mind it's still the pandemic and loads of us are still jonesing for new content like junkies looking for some smack. WB has been reactionary since after MoS. I don't think they are going to stop catering to fans now. Especially after this. They tried not to go down this road with saying there is no Snyder Cut, but caved so hard that there is no going back. This would be on the same level as Disney remaking the entire sequel Star Wars trilogy because fans are demanding it. Apologizing with Luke was bad, but if they go down the ST road... Oh my. Then, like you said, they have HBO Max to think about. They'd have to do something to keep people around longer than just for this. I dunno fans were mixed on MOS yet they stuck with Snyder for BVS, people were very sour on BVS and the Ultimate Edition on barely makes the movie tolerable, it's still a blegh movie though, and yet they stuck with Snyder for Justice League until he stepped away, WB have been reactionary to a point, they have also been stubborn pricks as well, so who knows, I honestly doubt they are going to fork over another half a billion to Snyder for a movie that will likely bomb at the box office though, which is why I think they may give in and give him a show/movie series for HBO Max where that way good or bad they can BS and say it did great numbers for them and ride out the Snyder issue.
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Post by darkpast on Mar 19, 2021 17:29:40 GMT
Does F&WS queerbait ?
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 17:31:25 GMT
And he's said this was his original version we were going to see which is a lie, that he only filed 4-5 minutes of footage, again big lie theres almost 10, and how do you film a CGI transformation scene? thats all green screen, only real thing in the shot after we see red eye Martha is Lennix, point is you are referring to claims Snyder has made, which he's been proven to be lying about quite notably infact. Like I kind of don't care too much, but people need to not buy into the this was my original vision thing, because the original snyder cut they showed test audiences tested badly, the Whedon version did better, which is why they went more with Whedon than Snyder in the end, seems unlikely to be true if this is his original cut of the film for the most part. Snyder saying that the additional photography would amount to around four or five minutes of footage was an estimate he made before the movie was finished. What reason would he have for lying about how much additional photography they filmed? If you think any other scenes in the movie were reshoots, it might help if you could say what you think they are? Something like that shouldn’t be difficult to spot. I have go back and read what I said, Snyder has been claiming this is his initial version of the movie and he only added 4-5 minutes, a claim kept up till the movie was seen by people, but he can edit and twist a lot of things in post production especially with voice overs and CGI based characters, as I said no one was talking about how much Darkseid was used in the original version of the movie, they said he was in it a tad but he's a much bigger character in this than just being in it a tad and so is his presence throughout the movie.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 17:42:41 GMT
Snyder saying that the additional photography would amount to around four or five minutes of footage was an estimate he made before the movie was finished. What reason would he have for lying about how much additional photography they filmed? If you think any other scenes in the movie were reshoots, it might help if you could say what you think they are? Something like that shouldn’t be difficult to spot. I have go back and read what I said, Snyder has been claiming this is his initial version of the movie and he only added 4-5 minutes, a claim kept up till the movie was seen by people, but he can edit and twist a lot of things in post production especially with voice overs and CGI based characters, as I said no one was talking about how much Darkseid was used in the original version of the movie, they said he was in it a tad but he's a much bigger character in this than just being in it a tad and so is his presence throughout the movie. We already knew that Darkseid was going to be in the history lesson scene and that he would show up at the end when the League defeats Steppenwolf. Anyway, I don’t recall Snyder saying this was his initial version of the movie. He said that he had a rough cut that was 214 minutes long, and that WB wanted to just release that, but Snyder apparently insisted that he be allowed to finish the movie.
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 17:48:57 GMT
I have go back and read what I said, Snyder has been claiming this is his initial version of the movie and he only added 4-5 minutes, a claim kept up till the movie was seen by people, but he can edit and twist a lot of things in post production especially with voice overs and CGI based characters, as I said no one was talking about how much Darkseid was used in the original version of the movie, they said he was in it a tad but he's a much bigger character in this than just being in it a tad and so is his presence throughout the movie. We already knew that Darkseid was going to be in the history lesson scene and that he would show up at the end when the League defeats Steppenwolf. Anyway, I don’t recall Snyder saying this was his initial version of the movie. He said that he had a rough cut that was 214 minutes long, and that WB wanted to just release that, but Snyder apparently insisted that he be allowed to finish the movie. I doubt that, if it's his original cut thats the one they tested with audiences and it got a shittier reception to Whedon's version which is why they picked Whedon's cut, and it's been absolutely pushed as this is Snyder's version we would have got in 2017, Snyder was selling people on this great cut he had of JL that WB just wouldn't let him release, which was that version which apparently sucked, but now he's released this and a lot of people are buying into this it the version we would have got back then which is just a big old porky out of Snyder and his camp.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 19, 2021 17:57:35 GMT
Yeah, you don't spend $70 million just for one scene. They didn’t spend it all on the additional photography. They also had to finish the VFX and pay Junkie XL to finish the score. That still wouldn't cost $70 million if the scenes were already as finished as you claim them to be. Heck, that kind of budget is enough for an entire movie and not a cheap-looking one at that. That's already 1/3 of the original budget of the movie before Whedon was added.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 19, 2021 18:00:51 GMT
They didn’t spend it all on the additional photography. They also had to finish the VFX and pay Junkie XL to finish the score. That still wouldn't cost $70 million if the scenes were already as finished as you claim them to be. Heck, that kind of budget is enough for an entire movie and not a cheap-looking one at that. That's already 1/3 of the original budget of the movie before Whedon was added. The movie wasn’t finished when Snyder left. They spent $70 million to finish the movie and redesign Steppenwolf, among other things, but in terms of additional photography, everything other than the Knightmare scene and the scenes with Harry Lennix as Martian Manhunter were from 2016.
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 18:32:49 GMT
That still wouldn't cost $70 million if the scenes were already as finished as you claim them to be. Heck, that kind of budget is enough for an entire movie and not a cheap-looking one at that. That's already 1/3 of the original budget of the movie before Whedon was added. The movie wasn’t finished when Snyder left. They spent $70 million to finish the movie and redesign Steppenwolf, among other things, but in terms of additional photography, everything other than the Knightmare scene and the scenes with Harry Lennix as Martian Manhunter were from 2016. They claim Whedon cut 90% of Snyder's stuff and reshot it, which if you take the 5 hour cut thing as gospel means Whedon only used about 30 minutes of Zack's footage, so he filmed 90 minutes of new footage, completely lightened up and redesigned certain CGI scenes and supposedly if Skaathar is even ballpark correct for only $20-30m more than what Snyder used to finish the same special effects as and film 1 or 2 additional scenes...that just does not sound right, Whedon cost about $90-100m to reshoot an entire movie from the ground up and do/redo all the effects from scratch compared to Snyder just needing to finish up the effects on a movie he was less than 6 months away from releasing to the public? Just sounds like PR spin and bullshit to me.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 19, 2021 18:57:11 GMT
The movie wasn’t finished when Snyder left. They spent $70 million to finish the movie and redesign Steppenwolf, among other things, but in terms of additional photography, everything other than the Knightmare scene and the scenes with Harry Lennix as Martian Manhunter were from 2016. They claim Whedon cut 90% of Snyder's stuff and reshot it, which if you take the 5 hour cut thing as gospel means Whedon only used about 30 minutes of Zack's footage, so he filmed 90 minutes of new footage, completely lightened up and redesigned certain CGI scenes and supposedly if Skaathar is even ballpark correct for only $20-30m more than what Snyder used to finish the same special effects as and film 1 or 2 additional scenes...that just does not sound right, Whedon cost about $90-100m to reshoot an entire movie from the ground up and do/redo all the effects from scratch compared to Snyder just needing to finish up the effects on a movie he was less than 6 months away from releasing to the public? Just sounds like PR spin and bullshit to me. I'm having a hard time finding the actual numbers but if I recall correctly, Snyder's original budget for JL was around $250 million. Whedon's additional scenes and reshoots pushed the budget to $300 million. Assuming it's true that majority of Snyder's scenes were already shot but 90% of those scenes weren't included in the final movie, then we're basically saying Whedon was able to create 90% of a block buster with just a $50 million budget. Even if we say there was some left over money from the original budget, it couldn't have been that much seeing as Snyder was supposedly close to finishing the movie when he left. So even if we make that $100 million that Whedon was allowed to work with... he still supposedly made almost an entire movie out of that budget. In comparison, Snyder was given a $70 million budget which he apparently used to shoot only one scene and add final VFX shots? The math doesn't compute.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 19, 2021 19:16:04 GMT
It’s two different types of venue, so why compare? In a TV show, the narrative is extended and the action spread out. In a movie, narrative and action are more compacted. To be fair, Falcon and Winter Soldier is composed of 6 episodes, around 40 minutes each which gives you about 240 minutes total which is pretty much the same runtime that Snyder's cut is. And The Falcon and Winter Soldier is more of a continuous form arc instead of an episodal format which makes it pretty similar to Snyder's cut which is continuous but cut into different chapters. Had the Falcon and Winter Soldier's entire season 1 dropped one time like Netflix does it then it would be pretty much nearly the same format as Snyder's JL.
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2021 19:25:38 GMT
They claim Whedon cut 90% of Snyder's stuff and reshot it, which if you take the 5 hour cut thing as gospel means Whedon only used about 30 minutes of Zack's footage, so he filmed 90 minutes of new footage, completely lightened up and redesigned certain CGI scenes and supposedly if Skaathar is even ballpark correct for only $20-30m more than what Snyder used to finish the same special effects as and film 1 or 2 additional scenes...that just does not sound right, Whedon cost about $90-100m to reshoot an entire movie from the ground up and do/redo all the effects from scratch compared to Snyder just needing to finish up the effects on a movie he was less than 6 months away from releasing to the public? Just sounds like PR spin and bullshit to me. I'm having a hard time finding the actual numbers but if I recall correctly, Snyder's original budget for JL was around $250 million. Whedon's additional scenes and reshoots pushed the budget to $300 million. Assuming it's true that majority of Snyder's scenes were already shot but 90% of those scenes weren't included in the final movie, then we're basically saying Whedon was able to create 90% of a block buster with just a $50 million budget. Even if we say there was some left over money from the original budget, it couldn't have been that much seeing as Snyder was supposedly close to finishing the movie when he left. So even if we make that $100 million that Whedon was allowed to work with... he still supposedly made almost an entire movie out of that budget. In comparison, Snyder was given a $70 million budget which he apparently used to shoot only one scene and add final VFX shots? The math doesn't compute. What I read says Snyder's original JL was budgets at $275m and he was 90% complete with the effects, which makes sense as they had enough of it done to show test audiences, which I doubt they would be doing with the effects being only midway done, either early or late stages I can see, mid stages not so much, but I could be wrong. So Whedon's reshoots and editing and stuff supposedly only added $25m to the cost of the movie, which given he supposedly reshot atleast like I said 75% of the movie he released and had to rebuild from the ground up this all sounds like a bunch on nonsense to me, now obviously he could have had more money they just didn't admit to, but surely by now that would have come out given all the other tea being spilt about that production right? But yeah the math does not add up, I think so many are just so engaged with the "victory" for Snyder and the Snyder Cut they willfully turn a blind eye to this to ensure the "win" some more, all to villify Snyder and demonise WB and DC even Whedon more, which is like they don't need you to make shit up to do that, WB/DC and Whedon have enough shit on their faces already, no need to add fake shit ontop of that to prove a point.
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