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Post by Skaathar on Mar 21, 2021 2:58:01 GMT
I'm hoping someone who remembers the DCEU movies more than me can provide an answer.
In the movie, Steppenwolf, Darkseid and even Desaad(?) make a big deal out of the fact that there are no kyrptonians on Earth. The implication being that Kryptonians are the only beings strong enough to pose a threat to them.
The problem I have with this is that it was established in MOS that Kryptonians weren't super-powered by default. They specifically needed to be around a yellow sun/star in order for them to be superpowered, and I never got the feeling from MOS (or any of the movies) that this was a common occurrence across the universe. In MOS when Jor-el was lecturing Kal-el on how he would be much stronger than the people of Earth and that he should be their protector, he was basing this off of scientific research rather than a historical occurrence of another Kyrptonian doing something similar. When Zod and his team acquired superpowers they seemed completely surprised by them and didn't seem to have heard of this happening before.
But for some reason, in Justice League (both Snyder's and Whedon's) Steppenwolf and his team make it seem like it's very common to see superpowered Kyrptonians scattered around the universe protecting worlds. Almost like they're the Green Lantern Corps.
So.... thoughts?
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Post by primeone on Mar 21, 2021 13:06:40 GMT
Lex Luthor was in the Kryptonian ship while the Trinity were fighting Doomsday. Once Superman died and his god-like scream woke the motherboxes, signaling Steppenwolf, it’s possible that Lex Luthor mentions the kryptonian. Especially since they were communicating from the kryptonian ship which is another possible give away. Like Steppenwolf would want to wonder how is he communicating with a kryptonian on Earth? Then Lex tells him everything about the yellow sun, etc.
To me this isn’t much of a plot hole. The biggest plot hole is the Anti-Life Equation. Darkseid found it on Earth during the history lesson and tried to use the motherboxes to terraform the planet. He failed and the Humans/Amazons/Atlanteans kept the motherboxes. At some point Stepoeneolfnjsnexiled from Apokolips and owes Darkseid thousands of planets to conquer. While doing so, he gets signaled of the location of the motherboxes. Which means Darkseid didn’t know where the planet he lost to was. Steppenwolf found it and most likely informs Desaad of this. Therefore Desaad had to have knoennits the same planet Darkseid lost to. During Steppenwolfs attempt to get the motherboxes, he gets a vision that the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth. Informing Desaad and Darkseid. But how didn’t they know? There’s literally no proper explanation to this. The only way this can be filled in is with another movie and that’s JL2 or New Gods if it’s connected. And the only subplot I see fitting in is if there are more motherboxes that somehow scatter across the universes for some reason. That’s literally it. No matter what anyone explains, it will not make any sense.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 21, 2021 13:11:21 GMT
No! You'll break the movie if you do that!
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Post by dazz on Mar 21, 2021 14:17:56 GMT
Kryptonians are an ancient species who once explored the universe, whilst at the end of their history they fell back to their homeworld, Jor-El as a scientist could easily know the potential for Kryptonian biology under different solar radiation effects, as soldiers of a species no long interested in the universe outside of their world Zod and his army probably would not share that same knowledge, they are bred to be soldiers, so they are likely taught as such also, so such knowledge is worthless to them so why should they know it?
And with Kryptonians having spread through the universe once before they could have fought Darkseid and his forces in the past, they are immortal and remember this, those Kryptonians were not and are long since dead, how they know of the Kryptonians could simply be due to the Lanterns either they fought one who was a Kryptonian or they managed to steal the knowledge of them the GLC has on record and can access via the rings, and also though they did not show it for all we know a less evolved Kryptonian who is less powerful but still a force to be reckoned with even by the New Gods standards could have been part of the earth's defences, or atleast a human with Kryptonian DNA, the Kryptonian ship that crashed is something like tens of thousands of years old.
So meh I dunno if it's a plothole as opposed to an unexplained plot point.
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 21, 2021 17:27:45 GMT
Lex Luthor was in the Kryptonian ship while the Trinity were fighting Doomsday. Once Superman died and his god-like scream woke the motherboxes, signaling Steppenwolf, it’s possible that Lex Luthor mentions the kryptonian. Especially since they were communicating from the kryptonian ship which is another possible give away. Like Steppenwolf would want to wonder how is he communicating with a kryptonian on Earth? Then Lex tells him everything about the yellow sun, etc. To me this isn’t much of a plot hole. T he biggest plot hole is the Anti-Life Equation. Darkseid found it on Earth during the history lesson and tried to use the motherboxes to terraform the planet. He failed and the Humans/Amazons/Atlanteans kept the motherboxes. At some point Stepoeneolfnjsnexiled from Apokolips and owes Darkseid thousands of planets to conquer. While doing so, he gets signaled of the location of the motherboxes. Which means Darkseid didn’t know where the planet he lost to was. Steppenwolf found it and most likely informs Desaad of this. Therefore Desaad had to have knoennits the same planet Darkseid lost to. During Steppenwolfs attempt to get the motherboxes, he gets a vision that the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth. Informing Desaad and Darkseid. But how didn’t they know? There’s literally no proper explanation to this. The only way this can be filled in is with another movie and that’s JL2 or New Gods if it’s connected. And the only subplot I see fitting in is if there are more motherboxes that somehow scatter across the universes for some reason. That’s literally it. No matter what anyone explains, it will not make any sense. I might not remember correctly but I think Darkseid only found out about the location of the Anti-Life Equation after Steppenwolf told him to. Not during the history lesson.
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Post by dazz on Mar 21, 2021 17:53:22 GMT
Lex Luthor was in the Kryptonian ship while the Trinity were fighting Doomsday. Once Superman died and his god-like scream woke the motherboxes, signaling Steppenwolf, it’s possible that Lex Luthor mentions the kryptonian. Especially since they were communicating from the kryptonian ship which is another possible give away. Like Steppenwolf would want to wonder how is he communicating with a kryptonian on Earth? Then Lex tells him everything about the yellow sun, etc. To me this isn’t much of a plot hole. T he biggest plot hole is the Anti-Life Equation. Darkseid found it on Earth during the history lesson and tried to use the motherboxes to terraform the planet. He failed and the Humans/Amazons/Atlanteans kept the motherboxes. At some point Stepoeneolfnjsnexiled from Apokolips and owes Darkseid thousands of planets to conquer. While doing so, he gets signaled of the location of the motherboxes. Which means Darkseid didn’t know where the planet he lost to was. Steppenwolf found it and most likely informs Desaad of this. Therefore Desaad had to have knoennits the same planet Darkseid lost to. During Steppenwolfs attempt to get the motherboxes, he gets a vision that the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth. Informing Desaad and Darkseid. But how didn’t they know? There’s literally no proper explanation to this. The only way this can be filled in is with another movie and that’s JL2 or New Gods if it’s connected. And the only subplot I see fitting in is if there are more motherboxes that somehow scatter across the universes for some reason. That’s literally it. No matter what anyone explains, it will not make any sense. I might not remember correctly but I think Darkseid only found out about the location of the Anti-Life Equation after Steppenwolf told him to. Not during the history lesson. No they say he found something special on earth, and they show Steppenwolf learning of the ALE the same way we see the same thing happen with Darkseid, smashing the ground and getting the lava pattern, so if Steppenwolf recognises this as the ALE why wouldn't Darkseid? Also they say in the movie Darkseid: You have found it? Steppenwolf: I Have, the lost world is earth, anti life is here. Then Darkseidf says he's turned 100,000 worlds to dust looking for anti life, looking for those who robbed him of his glory, so it's clearly telling us he knew what was on earth. Now the plothole is he didn't boom tube in and out, but came via ships and left the same way, why would spaceships not know the co-ordinates of a world they had been too? boom tube would make sense because he loses the MB's when he's defeated, so that would require him to fly from world to world in order to search for the ALE, and the MB's could record and navigate differently due to the nature of boom tubes, the other plot hole is Steppenwolf already rebelled against Darkseid once, now he's tapped to solo secure the ALE for Darkseid who will only come once unity is achieved and the world is conquered. so why trust Steppenwolf with anti life? why would he not take it for himself and try to overthrow Darkseid again? it's not because they need all 3 MB's because we see Steppenwolf come and go via boom tubes throughout the movie, now arguably they could not do this without a MB and it took one awakening and summoning Steppenwolf for him to do so, explaining why he is able to, but then why can't he get Darkseid when he has one or even two of them? Darkseid refusing before he learns Earth has anti life would make sense, but not afterwards, so with 2 MB's and anti life within his grasp why is Darkseid sitting in the wings waiting? This is the one plothole I find with the movie, now had Steppenwolf not betrayed Darkseid it could make sense, he's in exile not for treachery but incompetence like Steppenwolf was with Darkseid on Earth and when Darkseid was hurt Steppenwolf retreated which is why he owes Darkseid 50,000 worlds, to make up for losing him anti life due to cowardice, this makes sense why Darkseid would allow Steppenwolf to try and claim the prize in Darkseid's name, it's a simple plot hole but it's quite a noticeable one when you think about it.
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Post by primeone on Mar 21, 2021 20:21:42 GMT
Lex Luthor was in the Kryptonian ship while the Trinity were fighting Doomsday. Once Superman died and his god-like scream woke the motherboxes, signaling Steppenwolf, it’s possible that Lex Luthor mentions the kryptonian. Especially since they were communicating from the kryptonian ship which is another possible give away. Like Steppenwolf would want to wonder how is he communicating with a kryptonian on Earth? Then Lex tells him everything about the yellow sun, etc. To me this isn’t much of a plot hole. T he biggest plot hole is the Anti-Life Equation. Darkseid found it on Earth during the history lesson and tried to use the motherboxes to terraform the planet. He failed and the Humans/Amazons/Atlanteans kept the motherboxes. At some point Stepoeneolfnjsnexiled from Apokolips and owes Darkseid thousands of planets to conquer. While doing so, he gets signaled of the location of the motherboxes. Which means Darkseid didn’t know where the planet he lost to was. Steppenwolf found it and most likely informs Desaad of this. Therefore Desaad had to have knoennits the same planet Darkseid lost to. During Steppenwolfs attempt to get the motherboxes, he gets a vision that the Anti-Life Equation is on Earth. Informing Desaad and Darkseid. But how didn’t they know? There’s literally no proper explanation to this. The only way this can be filled in is with another movie and that’s JL2 or New Gods if it’s connected. And the only subplot I see fitting in is if there are more motherboxes that somehow scatter across the universes for some reason. That’s literally it. No matter what anyone explains, it will not make any sense. I might not remember correctly but I think Darkseid only found out about the location of the Anti-Life Equation after Steppenwolf told him to. Not during the history lesson. Diana specifically told Bruce: “As Darkseid waged war, he found a secret there. A power hidden in the infinity of space.” Right when Darkseid slammed the ground showing the omega simple same thing Steppenwolf did when discovering the Anti-Life Equation.
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Post by Winter_King on Mar 21, 2021 20:36:46 GMT
I might not remember correctly but I think Darkseid only found out about the location of the Anti-Life Equation after Steppenwolf told him to. Not during the history lesson. Diana specifically told Bruce: “ As Darkseid waged war, he found a secret there. A power hidden in the infinity of space.” Right when Darkseid slammed the ground showing the omega simple same thing Steppenwolf did when discovering the Anti-Life Equation. I assumed Wonder Woman was talking about Darkseid finding out about the Anti-Life Equation but not it's location. But if that's true then it's a pretty big plot hole.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 21, 2021 20:43:50 GMT
No! You'll break the movie if you do that! The movie is a smoldering ruin to begin with. Thinking about it only makes you laugh harder.
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Post by hobowar on Mar 21, 2021 20:45:24 GMT
No! You'll break the movie if you do that! The movie is a smoldering ruin to begin with. Thinking about it only makes you laugh harder.  A like minded person. Finally! 
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 21, 2021 21:01:25 GMT
I might not remember correctly but I think Darkseid only found out about the location of the Anti-Life Equation after Steppenwolf told him to. Not during the history lesson. Diana specifically told Bruce: “As Darkseid waged war, he found a secret there. A power hidden in the infinity of space.” Right when Darkseid slammed the ground showing the omega simple same thing Steppenwolf did when discovering the Anti-Life Equation. My assumption was that Apokolips somehow lost sight of Earth and weren’t sure how to find it again. Steppenwolf also implies that they didn’t know what the planet was called. I guess that wouldn’t really explain why they didn’t realize Earth was the planet from the Mother Boxes, but it’s possible that there were other Mother Boxes on other planets, for whatever reason. Edit: Actually, come to think of it, an easier explanation would be that Diana was mistaken, and that Darkseid merely suspected the Anti-Life Equation was on Earth, but didn’t know for sure. That might be a stretch, but that’s an easy way to make sense of it.
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Post by dazz on Mar 21, 2021 21:41:46 GMT
Diana specifically told Bruce: “As Darkseid waged war, he found a secret there. A power hidden in the infinity of space.” Right when Darkseid slammed the ground showing the omega simple same thing Steppenwolf did when discovering the Anti-Life Equation. My assumption was that Apokolips somehow lost sight of Earth and weren’t sure how to find it again. Steppenwolf also implies that they didn’t know what the planet was called. I guess that wouldn’t really explain why they didn’t realize Earth was the planet from the Mother Boxes, but it’s possible that there were other Mother Boxes on other planets, for whatever reason. Edit: Actually, come to think of it, an easier explanation would be that Diana was mistaken, and that Darkseid merely suspected the Anti-Life Equation was on Earth, but didn’t know for sure. That might be a stretch, but that’s an easy way to make sense of it. One problem with that is that once they league destroy the motherboxes Desaed asks Darkseid how he will claim his prize now, Darkseid then saying ready the armada we shall use the old ways, implying one way or another that those were the only Motherboxes in existence, which means the only ones were lost to him eons ago on the world where Anti Life was found, so the second Steppenwolf was summoned by one they should have known about Earth as the lost world they were searching for...this all sounds very poorly thought out right? I wonder if this was a tweaked plot they worked on for this cut in the last year in order to flesh out and highlight Steppenwolf and Darkseid more, otherwise it's bizarre this was not fixed up and the holes noticed in the 4 years since Zack shot all this stuff originally.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 21, 2021 23:34:48 GMT
My assumption was that Apokolips somehow lost sight of Earth and weren’t sure how to find it again. Steppenwolf also implies that they didn’t know what the planet was called. I guess that wouldn’t really explain why they didn’t realize Earth was the planet from the Mother Boxes, but it’s possible that there were other Mother Boxes on other planets, for whatever reason. Edit: Actually, come to think of it, an easier explanation would be that Diana was mistaken, and that Darkseid merely suspected the Anti-Life Equation was on Earth, but didn’t know for sure. That might be a stretch, but that’s an easy way to make sense of it. One problem with that is that once they league destroy the motherboxes Desaed asks Darkseid how he will claim his prize now, Darkseid then saying ready the armada we shall use the old ways, implying one way or another that those were the only Motherboxes in existence, which means the only ones were lost to him eons ago on the world where Anti Life was found, so the second Steppenwolf was summoned by one they should have known about Earth as the lost world they were searching for... this all sounds very poorly thought out right? I wonder if this was a tweaked plot they worked on for this cut in the last year in order to flesh out and highlight Steppenwolf and Darkseid more, otherwise it's bizarre this was not fixed up and the holes noticed in the 4 years since Zack shot all this stuff originally. That was going to be the subtitle for this movie, but it was already too long with Snyder putting his name ahead of it. Justice League: this all sounds very poorly thought out right? (The following is a rhetorical rant, not directed at you. I respect all opinions and whoever loves this movie, good for you. My criticism is of the film, not anyone else's opinion.) Darkseid can't remember the one planet that defeated him?! Cyborg's father brings his son (who hates him) back to life and gives him godlike powers, then tells him not to use them. "I know you hate me and you're bitter about being resurrected an an electronic freakshow. Here is the power to crash the world economy or launch the global nuclear arsenal, I'm sure the advice of the man you hate the most will convince you not to do these things." Why did Martian Manhunter have to show up at all? Why couldn't that be Martha who actually talked to Lois? Why the hell did MM sit out the battle with Steppenwolf?! There's no way he didn't know what was going on. It makes no sense to introduce the character and have him do absolutely nothing with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. Aquaman calls Bruce Wayne Batman right in front of multiple villagers. I thought they would've fixed this in the Snyder cut. I also thought they would've cleaned up the Superman beatdown of Steppenwolf, but they made it worse. "Not impressed." Is that something even this version of Clark would say? At least the humans were smart enough to just bury the mother box and forget about it. The moronic amazons and Atlanteans build shrines to the damn things so the bad guys know exactly where to find them when they come looking. Why does the Flash's costume bother being heat resistant? He uses his powers without the costume all the time. Hell, he even pulls people along with him at super speeds and they don't have costumes or powers. Did anybody think about this before they filmed it? By the way, that minion is a real crack shot, shooting the Flash running at near light speed on the first attempt. I genuinely enjoyed Flash as a character, he provided much needed levity in this ridiculous grimdark screenplay. The problem is he was in an entirely different movie than everyone else. And we don't need like three different character intros for him. The truck sequence was unnecessary, so is the dad in jail stuff honestly. Just give us Bruce visiting him. That's a great scene. Everyone else is telling Bruce to take a hike, this guy joins before Bruce even finishes the question. Fun stuff. Even in a four hour cut of this film, they couldn't even attempt to reconcile the homicidal maniac Bruce from BvS with Nick Fury Bruce in this one. "I have to make amends." That's as far as they're willing to go with it, because you just can't explain that tonal shift. (And for the record, I loved that character. He's crazy, he's not like any Batman you've ever seen, that movie was also a disaster; but at least they did something interesting with the character. I saw BvS twice in theaters specifically to study Lunatic Bruce.) Why the hell did we need a dream sequence after the climax of the film which sets up a movie nobody wants to see? While Leto's bad impression of Ledger was an improvement over whatever the hell he was doing in Suicide Squad, what was the point of that scene? Why, in a post apocalyptic world, does Batman still bother wearing the mask? Do you think the parademons are intimidated by his Bat persona? I got a good laugh out of that. Also, they just beat Space God, and the epilogue is Luthor hiring a hitman? Way to raise the stakes. The whole movie is such a mess. Circling back to Darkseid. Considering Superman just literally mopped the floor with his top goon, and Ares handed Darkseid his ass in single combat the last time he came to town, why are we supposed to be afraid of him? It's just bad storytelling from top to bottom. While I'm at it, and this isn't the movie's fault obviously, why is his name Steppenwolf? He's an alien and he's thousands of years old, why is he named after a 20th c Earth novel? Hey Mr. comic book creator, I get that it sounds cool, but couldn't you have made him a German terrorist or something, not an immortal alien warlord? Does Darkseid also have a lieutenant named Hound of the Baskervilles? So many dumb ideas thrown into a blender, it's truly amazing.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 22, 2021 4:36:50 GMT
That was going to be the subtitle for this movie, but it was already too long with Snyder putting his name ahead of it. Justice League: this all sounds very poorly thought out right? (The following is a rhetorical rant, not directed at you. I respect all opinions and whoever loves this movie, good for you. My criticism is of the film, not anyone else's opinion.) Darkseid can't remember the one planet that defeated him?! Cyborg's father brings his son (who hates him) back to life and gives him godlike powers, then tells him not to use them. "I know you hate me and you're bitter about being resurrected an an electronic freakshow. Here is the power to crash the world economy or launch the global nuclear arsenal, I'm sure the advice of the man you hate the most will convince you not to do these things." Why did Martian Manhunter have to show up at all? Why couldn't that be Martha who actually talked to Lois? Why the hell did MM sit out the battle with Steppenwolf?! There's no way he didn't know what was going on. It makes no sense to introduce the character and have him do absolutely nothing with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. Aquaman calls Bruce Wayne Batman right in front of multiple villagers. I thought they would've fixed this in the Snyder cut. I also thought they would've cleaned up the Superman beatdown of Steppenwolf, but they made it worse. "Not impressed." Is that something even this version of Clark would say? At least the humans were smart enough to just bury the mother box and forget about it. The moronic amazons and Atlanteans build shrines to the damn things so the bad guys know exactly where to find them when they come looking. Why does the Flash's costume bother being heat resistant? He uses his powers without the costume all the time. Hell, he even pulls people along with him at super speeds and they don't have costumes or powers. Did anybody think about this before they filmed it? By the way, that minion is a real crack shot, shooting the Flash running at near light speed on the first attempt. I genuinely enjoyed Flash as a character, he provided much needed levity in this ridiculous grimdark screenplay. The problem is he was in an entirely different movie than everyone else. And we don't need like three different character intros for him. The truck sequence was unnecessary, so is the dad in jail stuff honestly. Just give us Bruce visiting him. That's a great scene. Everyone else is telling Bruce to take a hike, this guy joins before Bruce even finishes the question. Fun stuff. Even in a four hour cut of this film, they couldn't even attempt to reconcile the homicidal maniac Bruce from BvS with Nick Fury Bruce in this one. "I have to make amends." That's as far as they're willing to go with it, because you just can't explain that tonal shift. (And for the record, I loved that character. He's crazy, he's not like any Batman you've ever seen, that movie was also a disaster; but at least they did something interesting with the character. I saw BvS twice in theaters specifically to study Lunatic Bruce.) Why the hell did we need a dream sequence after the climax of the film which sets up a movie nobody wants to see? While Leto's bad impression of Ledger was an improvement over whatever the hell he was doing in Suicide Squad, what was the point of that scene? Why, in a post apocalyptic world, does Batman still bother wearing the mask? Do you think the parademons are intimidated by his Bat persona? I got a good laugh out of that. Also, they just beat Space God, and the epilogue is Luthor hiring a hitman? Way to raise the stakes. The whole movie is such a mess. Circling back to Darkseid. Considering Superman just literally mopped the floor with his top goon, and Ares handed Darkseid his ass in single combat the last time he came to town, why are we supposed to be afraid of him? It's just bad storytelling from top to bottom. While I'm at it, and this isn't the movie's fault obviously, why is his name Steppenwolf? He's an alien and he's thousands of years old, why is he named after a 20th c Earth novel? Hey Mr. comic book creator, I get that it sounds cool, but couldn't you have made him a German terrorist or something, not an immortal alien warlord? Does Darkseid also have a lieutenant named Hound of the Baskervilles? So many dumb ideas thrown into a blender, it's truly amazing. Note that Martian Manhunter is the same general from MOS. So the question we should ask is, was he just going to stay on the sidelines and hide his identity while Superman battled the kryptonians alone? What would have happened if Zod won? What a hero this guy is. Bruce Wayne was way too nice and vanilla in this movie. Whedon balanced his personality better. In fact now that I think about it, outside of Cyborg I think the JL had better personalities in Whedon's JL rather than Snyder's. And yeah, Steppenwolf and Darkseid were way too puny in this movie. A single kyrptonian completely demolished Steppenwolf, like without even breaking a sweat. And the god that Wonder Woman beat up sent Darkseid packing. Are these really the universal threats that they're supposed to be? Darkseid should be thankful he never crossed paths with Zod and his team.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 22, 2021 4:57:21 GMT
That was going to be the subtitle for this movie, but it was already too long with Snyder putting his name ahead of it. Justice League: this all sounds very poorly thought out right? (The following is a rhetorical rant, not directed at you. I respect all opinions and whoever loves this movie, good for you. My criticism is of the film, not anyone else's opinion.) Darkseid can't remember the one planet that defeated him?! Cyborg's father brings his son (who hates him) back to life and gives him godlike powers, then tells him not to use them. "I know you hate me and you're bitter about being resurrected an an electronic freakshow. Here is the power to crash the world economy or launch the global nuclear arsenal, I'm sure the advice of the man you hate the most will convince you not to do these things." Why did Martian Manhunter have to show up at all? Why couldn't that be Martha who actually talked to Lois? Why the hell did MM sit out the battle with Steppenwolf?! There's no way he didn't know what was going on. It makes no sense to introduce the character and have him do absolutely nothing with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. Aquaman calls Bruce Wayne Batman right in front of multiple villagers. I thought they would've fixed this in the Snyder cut. I also thought they would've cleaned up the Superman beatdown of Steppenwolf, but they made it worse. "Not impressed." Is that something even this version of Clark would say? At least the humans were smart enough to just bury the mother box and forget about it. The moronic amazons and Atlanteans build shrines to the damn things so the bad guys know exactly where to find them when they come looking. Why does the Flash's costume bother being heat resistant? He uses his powers without the costume all the time. Hell, he even pulls people along with him at super speeds and they don't have costumes or powers. Did anybody think about this before they filmed it? By the way, that minion is a real crack shot, shooting the Flash running at near light speed on the first attempt. I genuinely enjoyed Flash as a character, he provided much needed levity in this ridiculous grimdark screenplay. The problem is he was in an entirely different movie than everyone else. And we don't need like three different character intros for him. The truck sequence was unnecessary, so is the dad in jail stuff honestly. Just give us Bruce visiting him. That's a great scene. Everyone else is telling Bruce to take a hike, this guy joins before Bruce even finishes the question. Fun stuff. Even in a four hour cut of this film, they couldn't even attempt to reconcile the homicidal maniac Bruce from BvS with Nick Fury Bruce in this one. "I have to make amends." That's as far as they're willing to go with it, because you just can't explain that tonal shift. (And for the record, I loved that character. He's crazy, he's not like any Batman you've ever seen, that movie was also a disaster; but at least they did something interesting with the character. I saw BvS twice in theaters specifically to study Lunatic Bruce.) Why the hell did we need a dream sequence after the climax of the film which sets up a movie nobody wants to see? While Leto's bad impression of Ledger was an improvement over whatever the hell he was doing in Suicide Squad, what was the point of that scene? Why, in a post apocalyptic world, does Batman still bother wearing the mask? Do you think the parademons are intimidated by his Bat persona? I got a good laugh out of that. Also, they just beat Space God, and the epilogue is Luthor hiring a hitman? Way to raise the stakes. The whole movie is such a mess. Circling back to Darkseid. Considering Superman just literally mopped the floor with his top goon, and Ares handed Darkseid his ass in single combat the last time he came to town, why are we supposed to be afraid of him? It's just bad storytelling from top to bottom. While I'm at it, and this isn't the movie's fault obviously, why is his name Steppenwolf? He's an alien and he's thousands of years old, why is he named after a 20th c Earth novel? Hey Mr. comic book creator, I get that it sounds cool, but couldn't you have made him a German terrorist or something, not an immortal alien warlord? Does Darkseid also have a lieutenant named Hound of the Baskervilles? So many dumb ideas thrown into a blender, it's truly amazing. Note that Martian Manhunter is the same general from MOS. So the question we should ask is, was he just going to stay on the sidelines and hide his identity while Superman battled the kryptonians alone? What would have happened if Zod won? What a hero this guy is. Bruce Wayne was way too nice and vanilla in this movie. Whedon balanced his personality better. In fact now that I think about it, outside of Cyborg I think the JL had better personalities in Whedon's JL rather than Snyder's. And yeah, Steppenwolf and Darkseid were way too puny in this movie. A single kyrptonian completely demolished Steppenwolf, like without even breaking a sweat. And the god that Wonder Woman beat up sent Darkseid packing. Are these really the universal threats that they're supposed to be? Darkseid should be thankful he never crossed paths with Zod and his team. Snyder has stressed in the past that Darkseid was still young when he invaded Earth the first time. He wasn’t imbued with the Omega Effect at the time, so he didn’t even have his trademark Omega Beams. In other words, he was much weaker back then. As for Steppenwolf, he’s just a lackey. |
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 22, 2021 5:52:10 GMT
Note that Martian Manhunter is the same general from MOS. So the question we should ask is, was he just going to stay on the sidelines and hide his identity while Superman battled the kryptonians alone? What would have happened if Zod won? What a hero this guy is. Bruce Wayne was way too nice and vanilla in this movie. Whedon balanced his personality better. In fact now that I think about it, outside of Cyborg I think the JL had better personalities in Whedon's JL rather than Snyder's. And yeah, Steppenwolf and Darkseid were way too puny in this movie. A single kyrptonian completely demolished Steppenwolf, like without even breaking a sweat. And the god that Wonder Woman beat up sent Darkseid packing. Are these really the universal threats that they're supposed to be? Darkseid should be thankful he never crossed paths with Zod and his team. Snyder has stressed in the past that Darkseid was still young when he invaded Earth the first time. He wasn’t imbued with the Omega Effect at the time, so he didn’t even have his trademark Omega Beams. In other words, he was much weaker back then. As for Steppenwolf, he’s just a lackey. Snyder can explain this however he wants but as long as this is not mentioned anywhere in the movie, it's still a valid complaint.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 22, 2021 5:56:43 GMT
Snyder has stressed in the past that Darkseid was still young when he invaded Earth the first time. He wasn’t imbued with the Omega Effect at the time, so he didn’t even have his trademark Omega Beams. In other words, he was much weaker back then. As for Steppenwolf, he’s just a lackey. Snyder can explain this however he wants but as long as this is not mentioned anywhere in the movie, it's still a valid complaint. Well, Darkseid doesn’t use his Omega Beams in the history lesson, and he looks different in the present day.
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Post by dazz on Mar 22, 2021 8:23:09 GMT
Snyder can explain this however he wants but as long as this is not mentioned anywhere in the movie, it's still a valid complaint. Well, Darkseid doesn’t use his Omega Beams in the history lesson, and he looks different in the present day. Superman didn't use his freeze breath in this movie either, he still has it though, this is somewhat valid complaint, though I guess it would have been addressed hopefully in JL2, if it was even in the original version of the movie that is. But another point to make maybe is this was at the height of the old gods powers, so they were potentially much stronger than Ares was in WW, plus there was an entire pantheon of them and the battle could have lasted hours, so you can look at it either way I guess. But one thing is when you claim this reasoning as to why he's weaker no one in the film knows about the omega force, the fact is he's referred to as Darkseid even back then when he should be known as Uxas. But I think the point is the first introduction to the ultimate big bad of Snyder's movies is him getting his arse handed to him, almost being killed and running away, without touching on why he's now so much more powerful and dangerous, is maybe a bit of an odd choice, could you imagine if the first scene with Thanos in the MCU was him getting beat to within an inch of his life by a squad of Nova Corps and a regiment of Asguardians led by Heimdall? it wouldn't ruin anything but it would be odd right?
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 22, 2021 8:27:20 GMT
Snyder can explain this however he wants but as long as this is not mentioned anywhere in the movie, it's still a valid complaint. Well, Darkseid doesn’t use his Omega Beams in the history lesson, and he looks different in the present day. If a movie needs their audience to be intimately versed with comicbook lore or need them to research interview notes with the director, that means the movie failed in its narrative. Your general audience won't know what omega beams are and won't think "Oh hey, he never used his Omega beams back then so he must be way way stronger in the modern day." What your audiences will see is simply that Darkseid got punked by Ares, the Ares that Wonder Woman killed singlehandedly in her first movie. They'll see Steppenwolf get completely humiliated by Superman singlehandedly, and then they'll wonder why the Justice League is even necessary because if Ares > Darkseid and Superman > Steppenwolf > Wonder Woman > Ares, then the logical conclusion is that Superman >>>> Darkseid. So the Justice League doesn't really need to exist. All they needed to do was resurrect Superman and now that that's done, well, they can go back to their individual lives.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 22, 2021 8:33:52 GMT
Well, Darkseid doesn’t use his Omega Beams in the history lesson, and he looks different in the present day. Superman didn't use his freeze breath in this movie either, he still has it though, this is somewhat valid complaint, though I guess it would have been addressed hopefully in JL2, if it was even in the original version of the movie that is. But another point to make maybe is this was at the height of the old gods powers, so they were potentially much stronger than Ares was in WW, plus there was an entire pantheon of them and the battle could have lasted hours, so you can look at it either way I guess. But one thing is when you claim this reasoning as to why he's weaker no one in the film knows about the omega force, the fact is he's referred to as Darkseid even back then when he should be known as Uxas. But I think the point is the first introduction to the ultimate big bad of Snyder's movies is him getting his arse handed to him, almost being killed and running away, without touching on why he's now so much more powerful and dangerous, is maybe a bit of an odd choice, could you imagine if the first scene with Thanos in the MCU was him getting beat to within an inch of his life by a squad of Nova Corps and a regiment of Asguardians led by Heimdall? it wouldn't ruin anything but it would be odd right? I actually have a book in my kindle collection called Thanos: Titan Consumed. It's based on the MCU and tells the story of a young Thanos (as in from his birth) till his start at being a young warlord. One of the first battles he launches to prove his prowess is against Asgard... where he gets his ass kicked by a band of random Asgardian warriors even before he gets to Asgard.  But yeah, that's definitely not something you'd want to include in the movies as the first introduction of your big bad.
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