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Post by Admin on Apr 3, 2021 23:12:05 GMT
Yeah. He could go as a white Jean Hill and I'll go as a white MLK. I have a friend who'd like to come as a black David Duke, but they won't let him in because of blackface. Exactly. And the year after I will go dressed up as a fat Karen Carpenter. Troublemaker.  |
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Post by dirtypillows on Apr 3, 2021 23:12:12 GMT
I've never seen "Family Guy". The episode you described sounds very interesting. I remember reading somewhere that the dad's chin was drawn to look like a set of testicles.  Family Guy is a divisive show for multiple reasons. I am a fan, but I understand why a lot of people dislike it. Are you familiar with the cartoonist Robert Crumb? Most of his stuff is rooted in hypersexualization and he depicts women as, i guess you might say, grotesquely sexual creatures. Amazons with long hair and big boobs and HUGE butts! (The man is obsessed with large asses on women!) His work comes straight from his sub-conscious. And he is, imo, a tremendous talent. He's also about as apolitical as it gets; therefore he might be regarded as politically incorrect. But, and I don't remember who I heard this from first, there is just no room for political correctness in the creative act. Actually I think it was a comedian who said that PC was the destroyer of humor. Also, Ralph Bakshi's "Heavy Traffic" would be considered as offensive by many, but I think it is mindblowing and absolutely hysterical.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2021 23:16:21 GMT
Family Guy is a divisive show for multiple reasons. I am a fan, but I understand why a lot of people dislike it. T Are you familiar with the cartoonist Robert Crumb? Most of his stuff is rooted in hypersexualization and he depicts women as, i guess you might say, grotesquely sexual creatures. Amazons with long hair and big boobs and HUGE butts! (The man is obsessed with large asses on women!) His work comes straight from his sub-conscious. And he is, imo, a tremendous talent. He's also about as apolitical as it gets; therefore he might be regarded as politically incorrect. But, and I don't remember who I heard this from first, there is just no room for political correctness in the creative act. Actually I think it was a comedian who said that PC was the destroyer of humor. Also, Ralph Bakshi's "Heavy Traffic" would be considered as offensive by many, but I think it is mindblowing and absolutely hysterical. I am familiar with Bakshi's and Crumb's styles. I am not a fan of Ralph Bakshi in general and I dislike his artistic style. I dislike the way both of them portray women. Not that I find it offensive per se, but I find the oversexualization to be distracting and in the case of Crumb, visually unappealing.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 5, 2021 17:14:42 GMT
Its not just the one thing that's different about yourselves. Its about the fact that every time someone did black face it was also accompanied by a portrayal of black people as dumb people to be laughed AT, not with. It was always a demeaning portrayal. And yes, it was steeped in "lets laugh at the other" type racism. The only reason I'm even answering this is because you started with "I am being serious. I really don't get this." so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I have to admit that I don't understand how you don't get it. Its kinda obvious. Well, I guess my curiosity about this started when my friend said I should not go as Jean Hill because to do her justice, I would think I'd need to wear some face paint and people would perceive that as insulting. Why? She's black. I would think it strange that there is anything inherently negative about being black. There seems to be hypocrisy going on here. I mean drag queens wear dresses and fake boobs and wigs and lots of makeup. Though I have also heard some people say that drag comes from misogyny.  Drag queens are A) showing of the magnificence of being a woman in all its glory. Color, pizazz, flamboyance. And B) they are expressing something that is deeply personal of themselves. How is you wearing black face any of those? Especially in light of the fact that you've been told black people would find it offensive. Do you WANT to be offensive? You've been told. You're aware. So you're not ignorant of it. Just back off of it. If you honest to god don't think its a problem or offensive, then go down to a mostly black neighborhood dressed that way. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not being offensive, right? I find it hard to believe you don't see the issue here. I think you're being purposefully obtuse, to try to make some point, that you're failing at miserably. You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill, of all the things you could do. Just stop.
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Post by Stammerhead on Apr 5, 2021 17:46:12 GMT
Well, I guess my curiosity about this started when my friend said I should not go as Jean Hill because to do her justice, I would think I'd need to wear some face paint and people would perceive that as insulting. Why? She's black. I would think it strange that there is anything inherently negative about being black. There seems to be hypocrisy going on here. I mean drag queens wear dresses and fake boobs and wigs and lots of makeup. Though I have also heard some people say that drag comes from misogyny. Drag queens are A) showing of the magnificence of being a woman in all its glory. Color, pizazz, flamboyance. And B) they are expressing something that is deeply personal of themselves. How is you wearing black face any of those? Especially in light of the fact that you've been told black people would find it offensive. Do you WANT to be offensive? You've been told. You're aware. So you're not ignorant of it. Just back off of it. If you honest to god don't think its a problem or offensive, then go down to a mostly black neighborhood dressed that way. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not being offensive, right? I find it hard to believe you don't see the issue here. I think you're being purposefully obtuse, to try to make some point, that you're failing at miserably. You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill, of all the things you could do. Just stop. This is why going to parties dressed as an alien is acceptable because Green Face is still PC.
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Post by dirtypillows on Apr 5, 2021 18:48:09 GMT
Well, I guess my curiosity about this started when my friend said I should not go as Jean Hill because to do her justice, I would think I'd need to wear some face paint and people would perceive that as insulting. Why? She's black. I would think it strange that there is anything inherently negative about being black. There seems to be hypocrisy going on here. I mean drag queens wear dresses and fake boobs and wigs and lots of makeup. Though I have also heard some people say that drag comes from misogyny. How is you wearing black face any of those? Especially in light of the fact that you've been told black people would find it offensive. Do you WANT to be offensive? You've been told. You're aware. So you're not ignorant of it. Just back off of it. If you honest to god don't think its a problem or offensive, then go down to a mostly black neighborhood dressed that way. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not being offensive, right? I find it hard to believe you don't see the issue here. I think you're being purposefully obtuse, to try to make some point, that you're failing at miserably. You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill, of all the things you could do. Just stop. The quickest way for me to address your post is for me to say that, much like the drag queen's deeply personal need to exhibit something glorious, I, too, relate very much to Jean Hill's essence and would find myself very much in tune with something deep inside myself, something that I've never expressed before, if I were to dress up as Grizelda Brown."You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill" How dare you presume to think that you know this much about me! You do not have that kind of insight into my subconscious. At least understand that much. Also, there are some women who think that drag is essentially mysoginistic. What would you say to these women? Maybe I should attempt to clarify. Making myself up to be Jean/Grizelda doesn't necessarily equate to going as blackface. I absolutely adore Jean Hill. I practically worship her and I'd like to think that if I did take a stroll in a black neighborhood as Jean Hill people would be able to rely on their intuition and just know that I was coming from a place of powerful affection.There is nothing inside me that is compelled to demean Jean Hill because I don't feel those feelings. Do you not think that black people are capable of understanding the difference? |
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Post by Ass_E9 on Apr 5, 2021 18:57:03 GMT
Inappropriate appropriation?
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Post by dirtypillows on Apr 5, 2021 19:01:15 GMT
Inappropriate appropriation? That rolls right off the tongue! I enjoyed that! |
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Post by dirtypillows on Apr 5, 2021 19:06:26 GMT
Inappropriate appropriation? Well, there's a lot about humor that renders it inappropriate. This is basic stuff. I say people need to not be so thin-skinned. Like Reader's Digest - the ONLY periodical that has maintained its integrity by not succumbing to politics - says, laughter is the best medicine. I couldn't agree more. My going as Jean Hill is a celebration of the individual's spirit. |
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Post by Ass_E9 on Apr 5, 2021 19:53:38 GMT
Inappropriate appropriation? Well, there's a lot about humor that renders it inappropriate. This is basic stuff. I say people need to not be so thin-skinned. Like Reader's Digest - the ONLY periodical that has maintained its integrity by not succumbing to politics - says, laughter is the best medicine. I couldn't agree more. My going as Jean Hill is a celebration of the individual's spirit. It mostly has to do with intent/context. It seems you wish to do this as an affectionate tribute and not ridicule, but others may not interpret it as such.
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Post by notoriousnobbi on Apr 6, 2021 21:30:45 GMT
I'd like to add a point of view from the outside.
Other countries have other historical contexts, so blackfacing elsewehre isn't like blackfacing in the U.S. I already thought that Trudeau's minor case was over dramatized as (AFAIK) Canada had no tradition of ridiculing people that way. There had been some discussions over the Dutch "Zwarte Piet" these were exaggerated either. In Germany there is a tradition of one child of the "Sternsinger" group blackfacing itself for roleplaying one of the 3 kings who visit the newborn Jesus - and this is also not about making fun of the color, so not problematic in my eyes.
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Post by shaggypoo on Apr 6, 2021 21:45:00 GMT
Inappropriate appropriation? That rolls right off the tongue! I enjoyed that! Trump? Terrible. It's one of those rhymes that supercedes the previous word, like procrastination nation, which is terribly uncreativr. |
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Post by Stammerhead on Apr 12, 2021 12:00:28 GMT
I just remembered this. Check out the stuntman at the nine minute mark...
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Post by gameboy on Apr 12, 2021 16:31:57 GMT
Well, I guess my curiosity about this started when my friend said I should not go as Jean Hill because to do her justice, I would think I'd need to wear some face paint and people would perceive that as insulting. Why? She's black. I would think it strange that there is anything inherently negative about being black. There seems to be hypocrisy going on here. I mean drag queens wear dresses and fake boobs and wigs and lots of makeup. Though I have also heard some people say that drag comes from misogyny. Drag queens are A) showing of the magnificence of being a woman in all its glory. Color, pizazz, flamboyance. And B) they are expressing something that is deeply personal of themselves. How is you wearing black face any of those? Especially in light of the fact that you've been told black people would find it offensive. Do you WANT to be offensive? You've been told. You're aware. So you're not ignorant of it. Just back off of it. If you honest to god don't think its a problem or offensive, then go down to a mostly black neighborhood dressed that way. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not being offensive, right? I find it hard to believe you don't see the issue here. I think you're being purposefully obtuse, to try to make some point, that you're failing at miserably. You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill, of all the things you could do. Just stop. I don't want to personally offend anyone and I doubt DP does either. Neither of us want to wear blackface and taunt black people.
The issue here is whether or not free speech should be limited to avoid offending people. If a white comedian wants to wear blackface as satire, or even just to make a stupid joke, he has every right to do so. Black people are not off limits nor should they be.
Obviously there is no law against blackface. But there is a politically correct de facto rule which prohibits blackface. That's bullshit. And I salute any brave white man or woman who defies this Orwellian prohibition of free speech.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 17, 2021 19:22:20 GMT
Drag queens are A) showing of the magnificence of being a woman in all its glory. Color, pizazz, flamboyance. And B) they are expressing something that is deeply personal of themselves. How is you wearing black face any of those? Especially in light of the fact that you've been told black people would find it offensive. Do you WANT to be offensive? You've been told. You're aware. So you're not ignorant of it. Just back off of it. If you honest to god don't think its a problem or offensive, then go down to a mostly black neighborhood dressed that way. Shouldn't be a problem. You're not being offensive, right? I find it hard to believe you don't see the issue here. I think you're being purposefully obtuse, to try to make some point, that you're failing at miserably. You and I both know you don't have any burning need or desire to portray Jean Hill, of all the things you could do. Just stop. I don't want to personally offend anyone and I doubt DP does either. Neither of us want to wear blackface and taunt black people.
The issue here is whether or not free speech should be limited to avoid offending people. If a white comedian wants to wear blackface as satire, or even just to make a stupid joke, he has every right to do so. Black people are not off limits nor should they be.
Obviously there is no law against blackface. But there is a politically correct de facto rule which prohibits blackface. That's bullshit. And I salute any brave white man or woman who defies this Orwellian prohibition of free speech.
No one said you couldn't say what you want. We question WHY you would want to do blackface if you KNOW that it offends people. To continue doing it after you know its offensive just makes you an asshole, who as you've said before doesn't "give a fuck." In "not giving a fuck" you've already gone passed offending right into asshole territory. So if free speech allows you to be an asshole, then It allows me to call you one. You are an asshole. There. Free speech.
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