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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 22:36:03 GMT
What would you say to someone who says Christianity has evolved into pedophilia and presents those priests as evidence? I would point out modern Christianity doesn't have priests, just Catholicism, which calls itself Christianity, but is too busy idol worshiping all the things that make their great big cathedrals look so beautiful and expensive and traditional, which seriously begs the question if they truly believe ALL this stuff is so necessary to believe, to worship, what do they really think of the smaller protestant churches that don't have all the ornate frills they couldn't possibly be without? What's their view of people who hold a sermon in a tent with fold up chairs?
How does "modern Christianity" differ from, um, non-modern Christianity? It's like saying the moon really will be made of cheese if enough people believe it.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 22:57:28 GMT
Slander. lol again. And for merely laughing at something you said? I got a big rofl for that one. At any rate, if something evolves at all, it changes. It's the very definition of evolution. You may not have specifically defined what you believe it's evolved into, but saying it has evolved at all is to say it evolved into something it wasn't before. Pedophilia in the church is not about the evolution of either Church doctrine, theology, or customs. It has nothing to do with the religion. It is a problem of the adult libido coupled with arrested development, usually afflicting males more than females. The problem for churches or Boy Scouts or the US House of Representatives is the cover up. Therefore it is about crime, not religion. So, whoever told you that Christianity evolved into pedophilia is an idiot. There was probably as much pedophilia going on in the 3rd century as now, probably more so. I never said it nor implied it. I am sick of you twisting what me and other people say here. You, of all people, shouldn’t troll, bait, insult or harass the customers. I don't care what you're sick of, Paul, but if you don't want me to read what you write, don't write it. I twisted nothing except for maybe your brain. "Christianity evolved." Those are are your words. Verbatim.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 22:58:40 GMT
How does "modern Christianity" differ from, um, non-modern Christianity? It's like saying the moon really will be made of cheese if enough people believe it. Why isn’t there one form of Christianity? Why so many different denominations? You fancy yourself somewhat of a biblical scholar. What did Jesus say about the division of religious denominations?
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 14, 2021 23:00:32 GMT
I would point out modern Christianity doesn't have priests, just Catholicism, which calls itself Christianity, but is too busy idol worshiping all the things that make their great big cathedrals look so beautiful and expensive and traditional, which seriously begs the question if they truly believe ALL this stuff is so necessary to believe, to worship, what do they really think of the smaller protestant churches that don't have all the ornate frills they couldn't possibly be without? What's their view of people who hold a sermon in a tent with fold up chairs?
How does "modern Christianity" differ from, um, non-modern Christianity? It's like saying the moon really will be made of cheese if enough people believe it.
Back then there were priests, priests who didn't have to be celibate to be holier than the congregates and closer to God than they, but could in fact have whole concubines of wives and children and still hold the title of priest and still be as close to God as an unmarried priest. Today there are pastors, reverends, and ministers, and probably a couple other titles too I'm not thinking of, but no priests, and to be a priest, you can't have a wife, you can't have kids, which all those other titles can damn well have, because if you did any of those things, you wouldn't be close to God, you'd be as lowly on the spiritual totem pole as the people you simultaneously tell to have 10 kids but judge them for having sex even within the confines of marriage.
To hear the garbled mishmash of all the things Catholics believe or rather are told to believe by their priests and decide they don't need to question any of it or think for themselves or even read the Bible for themselves, because Father Whoever knows it all for them, is truly disturbing. Granted, I've never actually attended a church sermon, but I'm pretty sure in the protestant denominations, no clergyman is going to tell you DON'T read the Bible for yourself, but we've known Catholics who proudly admitted they never read it because the priest told them everything they need to know, and no matter how bizarre it sounded, like wear a special vest for an entire year day and night and no evil will come to you, they don't question it.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:03:12 GMT
You fancy yourself somewhat of a biblical scholar. What did Jesus say about the division of religious denominations? Nothing. He was a Jew. Would you dispute me if I said Jesus was anti-religion?
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:06:09 GMT
I don't care what you're sick of, Paul, but if you don't want me to read what you write, don't write it. I twisted nothing except for maybe your brain. "Christianity evolved." Those are are your words. Verbatim. You can read what I write, but don’t you lie about what I said. Just fucking STOP IT! Where did I say it evolved into Pedophilia? Post where I said those words exactly or shut the fuck up. There's something wrong with you, man. Calm down. I didn't lie about anything you said, I didn't say you said it evolved into pedophilia, and I didn't say any specific person told me it had. Brush up on your reading comprehension and maybe these stupid little bullshit barbs will stop stagnating our chats.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:06:24 GMT
Would you dispute me if I said Jesus was anti-religion? I got nothing to say to you about the subject ever again. You’re not worth getting my blood pressure up. Thank God for small favors.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:10:52 GMT
How does "modern Christianity" differ from, um, non-modern Christianity? It's like saying the moon really will be made of cheese if enough people believe it. Back then there were priests, priests who didn't have to be celibate to be holier than the congregates and closer to God than they, but could in fact have whole concubines of wives and children and still hold the title of priest and still be as close to God as an unmarried priest. Today there are pastors, reverends, and ministers, and probably a couple other titles too I'm not thinking of, but no priests, and to be a priest, you can't have a wife, you can't have kids, which all those other titles can damn well have, because if you did any of those things, you wouldn't be close to God, you'd be as lowly on the spiritual totem pole as the people you simultaneously tell to have 10 kids but judge them for having sex even within the confines of marriage.
To hear the garbled mishmash of all the things Catholics believe or rather are told to believe by their priests and decide they don't need to question any of it or think for themselves or even read the Bible for themselves, because Father Whoever knows it all for them, is truly disturbing. Granted, I've never actually attended a church sermon, but I'm pretty sure in the protestant denominations, no clergyman is going to tell you DON'T read the Bible for yourself, but we've known Catholics who proudly admitted they never read it because the priest told them everything they need to know, and no matter how bizarre it sounded, like wear a special vest for an entire year day and night and no evil will come to you, they don't question it.
The crux of the issue here is whether or not priests, pastors, reverends, and ministers (ie, "The Church") have the authority to define or otherwise change Christianity. I think the problem actually arises from those who believe they do.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:24:59 GMT
There's something wrong with you, man. Calm down. I didn't lie about anything you said, I didn't say you said it evolved into pedophilia, and I didn't say any specific person told me it had. Brush up on your reading comprehension and maybe these stupid little bullshit barbs will stop stagnating our chats. The hell you didn’t. You took were I wrote somewhere “Christianity evolved” and twisted it that I said it evolved into Pedophilia. Link please and thank you. That's not a very convincing argument. Too bad you won't talk to me about it anymore.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:29:11 GMT
Link please and thank you. That's not a very convincing argument. Too bad you won't talk to me about it anymore. Now point out where I said it evolved into pedophilia. Right after you show me where I said you did.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 14, 2021 23:29:49 GMT
Back then there were priests, priests who didn't have to be celibate to be holier than the congregates and closer to God than they, but could in fact have whole concubines of wives and children and still hold the title of priest and still be as close to God as an unmarried priest. Today there are pastors, reverends, and ministers, and probably a couple other titles too I'm not thinking of, but no priests, and to be a priest, you can't have a wife, you can't have kids, which all those other titles can damn well have, because if you did any of those things, you wouldn't be close to God, you'd be as lowly on the spiritual totem pole as the people you simultaneously tell to have 10 kids but judge them for having sex even within the confines of marriage.
To hear the garbled mishmash of all the things Catholics believe or rather are told to believe by their priests and decide they don't need to question any of it or think for themselves or even read the Bible for themselves, because Father Whoever knows it all for them, is truly disturbing. Granted, I've never actually attended a church sermon, but I'm pretty sure in the protestant denominations, no clergyman is going to tell you DON'T read the Bible for yourself, but we've known Catholics who proudly admitted they never read it because the priest told them everything they need to know, and no matter how bizarre it sounded, like wear a special vest for an entire year day and night and no evil will come to you, they don't question it.
The crux of the issue here is whether or not priests, pastors, reverends, and ministers (ie, "The Church") have the authority to define or otherwise change Christianity. I think the problem actually arises from those who believe they do.
Christianity is a very simple concept, it's just people that make it complicated, people make everything complicated, that's also a big reason why more people don't believe, because it's too simple, they want it to be something hard, some big mystery they have to earn their redemption through their own actions. You believe in God, that God created everything and everybody, that God sent His only begotten son, Jesus, to earth to be born and live as a man, let himself be crucified for crimes He did not commit, that His blood shed during the crucifixion was to wash away the sins of everybody present or future who acknowledges this sacrifice He made for them, and accept Him as their savior, and save them from hell.
When I read Gale Storm's autobiography she talked about being a Christian, but also in not believing hell exists, that a loving God would not send anybody to hell. That is not a Christian because if there is no hell, Jesus didn't have to let Himself be crucified to save mankind because there would be nothing to save them from, and if you don't believe He came to save people from their sins, then you're not a Christian. The name says it all, Christ, Christian, why is Christ so memorable if not for shedding His blood to save everyone?
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:41:36 GMT
The crux of the issue here is whether or not priests, pastors, reverends, and ministers (ie, "The Church") have the authority to define or otherwise change Christianity. I think the problem actually arises from those who believe they do. Christianity is a very simple concept, it's just people that make it complicated, people make everything complicated, that's also a big reason why more people don't believe, because it's too simple, they want it to be something hard, some big mystery they have to earn their redemption through their own actions. You believe in God, that God created everything and everybody, that God sent His only begotten son, Jesus, to earth to be born and live as a man, let himself be crucified for crimes He did not commit, that His blood shed during the crucifixion was to wash away the sins of everybody present or future who acknowledges this sacrifice He made for them, and accept Him as their savior, and save them from hell.
When I read Gale Storm's autobiography she talked about being a Christian, but also in not believing hell exists, that a loving God would not send anybody to hell. That is not a Christian because if there is no hell, Jesus didn't have to let Himself be crucified to save mankind because there would be nothing to save them from, and if you don't believe He came to save people from their sins, then you're not a Christian. The name says it all, Christ, Christian, why is Christ so memorable if not for shedding His blood to save everyone?
Fundamentally, Christianity is simply "Don't be a dick." And that doesn't change regardless of how many people pervert it into anything else. We put ourselves first then twist everything around us to fit, including Christianity.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 14, 2021 23:45:54 GMT
Christianity is a very simple concept, it's just people that make it complicated, people make everything complicated, that's also a big reason why more people don't believe, because it's too simple, they want it to be something hard, some big mystery they have to earn their redemption through their own actions. You believe in God, that God created everything and everybody, that God sent His only begotten son, Jesus, to earth to be born and live as a man, let himself be crucified for crimes He did not commit, that His blood shed during the crucifixion was to wash away the sins of everybody present or future who acknowledges this sacrifice He made for them, and accept Him as their savior, and save them from hell.
When I read Gale Storm's autobiography she talked about being a Christian, but also in not believing hell exists, that a loving God would not send anybody to hell. That is not a Christian because if there is no hell, Jesus didn't have to let Himself be crucified to save mankind because there would be nothing to save them from, and if you don't believe He came to save people from their sins, then you're not a Christian. The name says it all, Christ, Christian, why is Christ so memorable if not for shedding His blood to save everyone?
Fundamentally, Christianity is simply "Don't be a dick." And that doesn't change regardless of how many people pervert it into anything else. We put ourselves first then twist everything around us to fit, including Christianity.
That's what I always say, people blame Christianity for this, blame God for that, no, it's the people, the people who have done these things, blame the people actually responsible, don't blame God for what people chose to do. It's just like A Christmas Carol, Scrooge asks why the spirits let the poor suffer since they're so blessed, and the spirit says men commit their own evil acts and call it in the name of charity, and tells him 'hold them accountable for their own doings and not us'.
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2021 23:47:28 GMT
Right after you show me where I said you did. You insinuated it because I said “Christianity evolved.” I asked who said it evolved into pedophilia and you made out like it was me because I did use the word “evolve” in my first post [ As Christianity evolved over the next few centuries, it became less and less concerned with actual living the Kingdom of God as Jesus laid it out and became more inline with pagan attitudes of tribalism and their aggrievements and revenge against other tribes.] I didn’t say anything about it evolving into anything like pedophilia. But you want to play a smartass word game. You continue to presume too much.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 15, 2021 0:06:30 GMT
That there are of course some priests who molest children, just as there are in every walk of life, and sure it's more abhorrent if someone in the sort of power situation as a priest abuses that power like that, but I would challenge you to find a church or sect that preaches pedophilia. In the context of our conversation I would not consider pedophilia as 'church behaviour' more as individual behaviour. Having said that there is clearly some evolution of church behaviour in some sects that seeks to cover this individual behaviour up, so in that way some sects of Christianity have evolved to implicilty support pedophilia. Do you think that if Jesus himself were to show up on our doorstep today, he would be pleased with this so-called "evolution of Christianity"? I read from that that you think of Christianity as monolithic. The evolution has formed many sects, some I would call good, some bad, much like any person. I am not a catholic Priest so I dont pretend to speak for Jesus, but I would say he would approve of some sects and disapprove of others. I am not making moral judgements in what I said, I am simply pointing out that ideas (like religions) evolve just as much as other things, and since evolution is a natural process it is not concerned with the morality of that evolution.
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Post by Admin on Apr 15, 2021 0:16:00 GMT
Do you think that if Jesus himself were to show up on our doorstep today, he would be pleased with this so-called "evolution of Christianity"? I read from that that you think of Christianity as monolithic. The evolution has formed many sects, some I would call good, some bad, much like any person. I am not a catholic Priest so I dont pretend to speak for Jesus, but I would say he would approve of some sects and disapprove of others. I am not making moral judgements in what I said, I am simply pointing out that ideas (like religions) evolve just as much as other things, and since evolution is a natural process it is not concerned with the morality of that evolution. Like I said to Novastar above, Christianity is a simple concept: Be kind to others. If it means something else today due to the evolving ideas and religions of Man, it's no longer Christianity. More specifically, if I were to believe Christianity itself has evolved into something it wasn't to begin with, I would actually be replacing it with something else. And just for good measure, I might even berate those who say I did.
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Post by Admin on Apr 15, 2021 0:32:24 GMT
Like I said to Novastar above, Christianity is a simple concept: Be kind to others. If it means something else today due to the evolving ideas and religions of Man, it's no longer Christianity. More specifically, if I were to believe Christianity itself has evolved into something it wasn't to begin with, I would actually be replacing it with something else. And just for good measure, I might even berate those who say I did. The concept is love the neighbor as thyself. Anybody can be kind and it’s not limited to Christians. The hard part is actually loving people using the metric Jesus laid out. Show me where I accused you of saying Christianity evolved into pedophilia. Please and thank you again. After that, I'd be happy to have a chat with you about loving our neighbors.
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Post by Admin on Apr 15, 2021 0:40:45 GMT
Show me where I accused you of saying Christianity evolved into pedophilia. Please and thank you again. After that, I'd be happy to have a chat with you about loving our neighbors. Stop it, jerk. Actually, you just did that, but I'll take credit for it if I must. Hey, when you stop biting your own ass, maybe we can take a good look at who's really being the jerk here. Sound fun?
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Post by gadreel on Apr 15, 2021 4:14:02 GMT
I read from that that you think of Christianity as monolithic. The evolution has formed many sects, some I would call good, some bad, much like any person. I am not a catholic Priest so I dont pretend to speak for Jesus, but I would say he would approve of some sects and disapprove of others. I am not making moral judgements in what I said, I am simply pointing out that ideas (like religions) evolve just as much as other things, and since evolution is a natural process it is not concerned with the morality of that evolution. Like I said to Novastar above, Christianity is a simple concept: Be kind to others. If it means something else today due to the evolving ideas and religions of Man, it's no longer Christianity. More specifically, if I were to believe Christianity itself has evolved into something it wasn't to begin with, I would actually be replacing it with something else. And just for good measure, I might even berate those who say I did. And as I intimated in my first post, your stance has to devolve into the no true scotsman fallacy. Which begs the question who are you to determine what Christianity is.
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Post by Admin on Apr 15, 2021 4:37:05 GMT
Like I said to Novastar above, Christianity is a simple concept: Be kind to others. If it means something else today due to the evolving ideas and religions of Man, it's no longer Christianity. More specifically, if I were to believe Christianity itself has evolved into something it wasn't to begin with, I would actually be replacing it with something else. And just for good measure, I might even berate those who say I did. And as I intimated in my first post, your stance has to devolve into the no true scotsman fallacy. Which begs the question who are you to determine what Christianity is. Me? No, not me. I'm pretty sure Jesus is known as the founder of Christianity, but even that doesn't sit right me because I don't believe he founded anything. I think he was just telling us what we already knew, or at least should have known. I mean, did we really need someone to tell us to stop hurting each other? Are we so far gone that we see love and peace as a threat? I'm not one to say who is or isn't a "True Christian" or even if there is such a thing, but it seems to me that if you're raping children and setting kittens on fire and other bad things of that nature, you would probably only be considered one by those who think your actions actually square with anything Jesus said.
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