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Post by Skaathar on Apr 17, 2021 17:36:26 GMT
This guy used to be able to match Steve Rogers in a one on one fight in CATWS. Was dealing with Black Widow and Falcon like they were pesky gnats.
Then in Civil War he gets easily dominated by Spiderman who himself was defeated by Captain America later on.
In Infinity War he can't even keep up with the running pace set by Black Panther and Captain America.
Now in TFATWS he regularly struggles with random untrained thugs just because they were injected with the ss serum and was completely outmatched by a 2nd rate Captain America.
Now, we can theorize that Walker is just a far better fighter than Steve Rogers seeing as he's competely able to dominate an opponent that Steve struggled with, but the fact that Falcon puts up a better fight against Walker than Bucky seems to indicate that they simply just nerfed Bucky that badly.
The question is why? I don't think any other MCU character has been downgraded as much as the Winter Soldier, not even Hulk. So why does the MCU hate Bucky so much?
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 17, 2021 19:37:55 GMT
The Wakandan women seem a little over-powered. I know they’re elite fighters but Bucky should be able to take them down.
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Post by jamesbamesy on Apr 17, 2021 19:57:50 GMT
Maybe they knew how unstoppable he was in CATWS so they toned his power level down to give him some challenge. But to do that to him for plenty of films since then, it does seem a bit fishy. Hopefully the final episode gives him a badass moment to redeem himself.
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Post by hobowar on Apr 17, 2021 20:57:49 GMT
I feel like there's a name for this. In one of the Avengers cartoons Black Panther wipes the floor with the team when he first meets them, but is reduced to a poor man's Captain America as soon as he starts working with them.
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 17, 2021 21:06:19 GMT
I feel like there's a name for this. In one of the Avengers cartoons Black Panther wipes the floor with the team when he first meets them, but is reduced to a poor man's Captain America as soon as he starts working with them. The TMNT 2012 cartoon does that a lot too. A new mutant will come along and kick their ass but then he’ll just be one of Shredder’s goons who is easily defeated. I think MOTU and Transformers does that as well. |
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 18, 2021 6:06:58 GMT
While I chalk it up to him being put through the ringer, near emotional & physical hell, frozen on & off, I still wished he had more to do in Infinity War & Endgame. As soon after Black Panther gifts his new arm to him in Wakanda, his sense of gravitas as character is no longer utilized.
I thought Civil War he was given ample including its strong final act. Spider-Man did need a strong showing there, & mostly Falcon & he were caught off guard by his powers & moves.
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Post by Morgana on Apr 18, 2021 9:00:50 GMT
I really like Bucky's character and I wish he had become the next Captain America though I can see why they wanted Falcon to become CA. (PC)
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Post by hobowar on Apr 18, 2021 10:51:58 GMT
From a story perspective, a protagonist needs to be an underdog. In El Cappo 2, Bucky was mainly an antagonist.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 11:24:42 GMT
I really like Bucky's character and I wish he had become the next Captain America though I can see why they wanted Falcon to become CA. (PC) Same but not necessarily all PC but a huge factor sure. Bucky still has some issues to sort out. Also only recently 'de-programmed'
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 11:30:21 GMT
This guy used to be able to match Steve Rogers in a one on one fight in CATWS. Was dealing with Black Widow and Falcon like they were pesky gnats. Then in Civil War he gets easily dominated by Spiderman who himself was defeated by Captain America later on. In Infinity War he can't even keep up with the running pace set by Black Panther and Captain America. Now in TFATWS he regularly struggles with random untrained thugs just because they were injected with the ss serum and was completely outmatched by a 2nd rate Captain America. Now, we can theorize that Walker is just a far better fighter than Steve Rogers seeing as he's competely able to dominate an opponent that Steve struggled with, but the fact that Falcon puts up a better fight against Walker than Bucky seems to indicate that they simply just nerfed Bucky that badly. The question is why? I don't think any other MCU character has been downgraded as much as the Winter Soldier, not even Hulk. So why does the MCU hate Bucky so much? I guess they should have had a ranking system re heroes lol. Although Bucky having personal issues could in a way explain some of it. Also had to change tactics-not killing just subduing
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Post by politicidal on Apr 18, 2021 14:32:27 GMT
I feel like there's a name for this. In one of the Avengers cartoons Black Panther wipes the floor with the team when he first meets them, but is reduced to a poor man's Captain America as soon as he starts working with them. It’s just bad writing. |
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Post by hobowar on Apr 18, 2021 16:11:43 GMT
I feel like there's a name for this. In one of the Avengers cartoons Black Panther wipes the floor with the team when he first meets them, but is reduced to a poor man's Captain America as soon as he starts working with them. It’s just bad writing. "The worf effect" is what I was thinking of, but bad writting works also.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 18, 2021 16:35:42 GMT
Michael Dorn had a lot of screen presence though.
He and Levar Burton and Brent Spiner were the most charismatic actors on TNG.
I have no doubt Dorn was added in there so they could make him the alpha male--Riker did nothing in the show.
But this trend -- empowering black women should be called the Kamala Harris effect.
They had the Obama Effect when he was in office--so the Spanish ruler in Pirates of the Caribbean 4 was the one in charge and destroyed the temple at the end for the good of everyone. Just like Obama.
As for Bucky--his problem should be obvious--successful white guy. Unlike Steve Rogers he was an able-bodied white guy without science.
They had to fuck him up.
And Spider-man turned into a white Gary Coleman--how old is he?
A perpetual teenager even though he is 20-something.
That wasn't the case in the comics.
He wasn't called Spider-boy.
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 18, 2021 16:55:52 GMT
Michael Dorn had a lot of screen presence though. He and Levar Burton and Brent Spiner were the most charismatic actors on TNG. I have no doubt Dorn was added in there so they could make him the alpha male--Riker did nothing in the show. But this trend -- empowering black women should be called the Kamala Harris effect. They had the Obama Effect when he was in office--so the Spanish ruler in Pirates of the Caribbean 4 was the one in charge and destroyed the temple at the end for the good of everyone. Just like Obama. As for Bucky--his problem should be obvious--successful white guy. Unlike Steve Rogers he was an able-bodied white guy without science. They had to fuck him up. And Spider-man turned into a white Gary Coleman--how old is he? A perpetual teenager even though he is 20-something. That wasn't the case in the comics. He wasn't called Spider-boy. A white guy is ok so long as he has an established violent past which he is sorry for. The show is a woke allegory for the battle for the soul of America. |
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 18, 2021 17:13:45 GMT
A white guy is ok so long as he has an established violent past which he is sorry for. Ah, like Mark Wahlberg.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 18, 2021 17:35:17 GMT
I feel like there's a name for this. In one of the Avengers cartoons Black Panther wipes the floor with the team when he first meets them, but is reduced to a poor man's Captain America as soon as he starts working with them. The TMNT 2012 cartoon does that a lot too. A new mutant will come along and kick their ass but then he’ll just be one of Shredder’s goons who is easily defeated. I think MOTU and Transformers does that as well. Not gonna lie, G.I. Joe came to mind for me. Seems practically any cartoon show tied to toys had a spotlighted sequence/episode for new characters... which in the 80's meant every single cartoon show.
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Post by ReyKahuka on Apr 21, 2021 15:45:16 GMT
There wouldn't be a story if Bucky was immediately taking everybody out. I chalk it up to a lack of ferocity on Bucky's part. In TWS he's a mindless killing machine, on the show he's a guy with PTSD trying to atone for his sins, he isn't trying to kill everyone in his path. Anyway this happens all the time in action movies. Look at Commando. Does Bennett seem like a guy who can give peak Arnold a run for his money? He mows down an entire island by himself, and has trouble with a fat guy in chain mail.
As far as the airport sequence, Cap used his wits to beat Spider-Man, he didn't simply overpower or outfight him.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Apr 21, 2021 18:02:52 GMT
I don’t really care about the streeeeeaaaaming shows but I thought Bucky outlived his relevance to the story in Infinity War. His story was pretty much done at the end of Civil War, and really he was only ever there in the first place to serve Cap’s story. With Steve gone I can’t help but wonder why he’s still around. I suspect they wanted him to die at some point in the saga-which would’ve been fitting- but couldn’t find a place to do it. I’d be surprised if he isn’t dead at the end of this show.
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Post by ReyKahuka on Apr 21, 2021 23:34:40 GMT
I don’t really care about the streeeeeaaaaming shows but I thought Bucky outlived his relevance to the story in Infinity War. His story was pretty much done at the end of Civil War, and really he was only ever there in the first place to serve Cap’s story. With Steve gone I can’t help but wonder why he’s still around. I suspect they wanted him to die at some point in the saga-which would’ve been fitting- but couldn’t find a place to do it. I’d be surprised if he isn’t dead at the end of this show. Interesting, I hadn't considered this. It doesn't have to be true, of course. But you're right. Bucky doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore unless they want to give him his own spinoff.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Apr 21, 2021 23:36:45 GMT
I don’t really care about the streeeeeaaaaming shows but I thought Bucky outlived his relevance to the story in Infinity War. His story was pretty much done at the end of Civil War, and really he was only ever there in the first place to serve Cap’s story. With Steve gone I can’t help but wonder why he’s still around. I suspect they wanted him to die at some point in the saga-which would’ve been fitting- but couldn’t find a place to do it. I’d be surprised if he isn’t dead at the end of this show. Interesting, I hadn't considered this. It doesn't have to be true, of course. But you're right. Bucky doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore unless they want to give him his own spinoff. I was very sure they’d make him the new Cap. I don’t mind it going to Sam at all, but I was convinced it was the sole reason that Bucky was still there in End Game. I wonder if either of them will appear in the movies going forward. Probably only Sam will.
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