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Post by Skaathar on Apr 19, 2021 22:30:13 GMT
I've always considered Shang Chi higher profile than either She-Hulk or Alpha Flight. It would surprise me if either of those got a big screen outing first. I think She-Hulk has historically been higher profile than Shang-Chi, by virtue of being the Hulk’s female cousin. Higher profile than Alpha Flight, yes, but not She-Hulk. Shang Chi is a relatively obscure comicbook character that most casual comicbook readers would not be knowledgeable about. I'd say even Ironfist is a more well-known character. That said, Shang Chi is at least more well known than Guardians of the Galaxy and look what the MCU accomplished with that.
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Post by sostie on Apr 19, 2021 22:44:36 GMT
I think She-Hulk has historically been higher profile than Shang-Chi, by virtue of being the Hulk’s female cousin. Higher profile than Alpha Flight, yes, but not She-Hulk. Shang Chi is a relatively obscure comicbook character that most casual comicbook readers would not be knowledgeable about. I'd say even Ironfist is a more well-known character. That said, Shang Chi is at least more well known than Guardians of the Galaxy and look what the MCU accomplished with that. I'm not sure. Master Of Kung Fu had a 9 year print run...Shang Chi is pretty well known in comic circles. Plus it was the first comic title from the major publishers to feature an Asian hero in the lead, which makes it stand out historically. She Hulk has had a few short/limited runs and is probably better known for for popping up in other titles. I would say that she has been mentioned more in the last 10 years or so since MCU gained popularity, where she sometimes pops up in discussion about who could be the next "guardians" type risk.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 19, 2021 23:02:06 GMT
What? One film with a black lead and one coming up with an Asian lead...out of 24 films! Avoid the whiteness! Yeah they are really aggressively going forward with that
There are none showing a white guy acting as a warrior or successful dude, and all natural. Black Panther supposedly is or was all natural--he had no super powers--I assume Shang-Chi is as well. He wasn't someone who needs a costume or special devices. There are no white guys in the Marvel Universe like that--except Conan was--maybe that is why he became the best seller.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 0:59:52 GMT
Not sure how to feel about this to be honest. The fight choreography seems top notch but looks like they're using wire-fu which is pretty inconsistent with the rest of the MCU. Right now I can't shake the image of it being a mash-up of Ironfist and Mulan. Just hope it turns out way better than both. Yeah..I mean it looks ok but not really feeling it just yet with this trailer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 1:08:28 GMT
The character is Chinese and has always been Chinese. Research is your friend. Sure but it’s a fair point considering that we are getting Shang Chi before She-Hulk or Alpha Flight. Maybe if there were 1.2 billion canucks that would be different. Anyway I don’t blame Marvel. Blacks already got Black Panther, women already got Captain Marvel, idiots already got WandaVision and now Asians have got Shang Chi. Well, to be fair Guardians of the Galaxy came pretty early too
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Post by sostie on Apr 20, 2021 1:17:55 GMT
There are none showing a white guy acting as a warrior or successful dude, and all natural. Black Panther supposedly is or was all natural--he had no super powers--I assume Shang-Chi is as well. He wasn't someone who needs a costume or special devices.
Your complaint is hilarious. Black Panther and Shang-chi being given films despite them having no "super powers" (you obviously haven't seen Black Panther, and Shang-Chi has skills in martial arts etc that verge on super powers) is part of a political agenda! In that case add me to the list of scared whiteys that apparently will be offended by this evil agenda. In the MCU? Starlord? Hawkeye?. Iron Man and Ant Man if you ignore the technology. Pointless listing any really seeing that in your argument you don't think BP has any powers. If what he has doesn't count as "super powers" we can add Captain America to the list of "natural" white dudes. In comics? Nick Fury, Bucky, Punisher, Howling Commandos Or maybe it was a best seller because it was based on a series of best selling books and serialisations from decades before that were extremely popular for decades and the comic continued the stories? Or maybe because it started publication when Dungeons & Dragons and all things sword & sorcery & fantasy were popular? Maybe people just like the character? I doubt it was because a readership thought they'd like it because he had no super powers AND was white.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 1:40:23 GMT
In the MCU? Starlord? Hawkeye?. Iron Man and Ant Man if you ignore the technology. Pointless listing any really seeing that in your argument you don't think BP has any powers. If what he has doesn't count as "super powers" we can add Captain America to the list of "natural" white dudes. In comics? Nick Fury, Bucky, Punisher, Howling Commandos Let's see--Starlord is some kind of magical guy in outer space so he is out of the running. He also has a team. Not quite the lone warrior. In the movies he acts kind of obnoxious not quite the warrior statesman that Black Panther or Shang-Chi are presented as. Hawkeye? In the movies? LMAO. Oh yeah! the guy who felt guilty because his mind got taken over. Oh yes what a warrior fellow he is. He also uses technology. Black Panther and Shang Chi are presented as using their natural abilities. Without a bow what good is Hawkeye.
Nick Fury? hahaha He is a tough dude in the movies isn't he.
Bucky--turned into a science experiment. Yep.
Punisher-has he turned up in the MCU movies?
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Post by sostie on Apr 20, 2021 10:47:26 GMT
In the MCU? Starlord? Hawkeye?. Iron Man and Ant Man if you ignore the technology. Pointless listing any really seeing that in your argument you don't think BP has any powers. If what he has doesn't count as "super powers" we can add Captain America to the list of "natural" white dudes. In comics? Nick Fury, Bucky, Punisher, Howling Commandos Let's see--Starlord is some kind of magical guy in outer space so he is out of the running. He also has a team. Not quite the lone warrior. In the movies he acts kind of obnoxious not quite the warrior statesman that Black Panther or Shang-Chi are presented as. Hawkeye? In the movies? LMAO. Oh yeah! the guy who felt guilty because his mind got taken over. Oh yes what a warrior fellow he is. He also uses technology. Black Panther and Shang Chi are presented as using their natural abilities. Without a bow what good is Hawkeye.
Nick Fury? hahaha He is a tough dude in the movies isn't he.
Bucky--turned into a science experiment. Yep.
Punisher-has he turned up in the MCU movies?
So your concern now is if a white character doesn't have superpowers he is represented as having character flaws, Whereas a Black and Asian character are being shown as non-powered and flawless as part of a political agenda - despite the fact that Black Panther DOES have superpowers and you know absolutely nothing about Shang-chi other than his race. Hilarious. Yeah. And? From 1940s to the 2000s Bucky had no powers. After the experiments he became Winter Soldier. That has been since the mid 2000s No, but you refer to the Marvel Universe not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. No point in saying you meant the MCU, because you bring up Conan - a non-MCU character - as the only example where a white guy fits the non-superpower category. Are you sure you are not a DC-Fan sock account. The similar way you just cherry pick the parts of responses you think you have an answer to is uncanny
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 15:12:16 GMT
So your concern now is if a white character doesn't have superpowers he is represented as having character flaws, Whereas a Black and Asian character are being shown as non-powered and flawless as part of a political agenda - despite the fact that Black Panther DOES have superpowers and you know absolutely nothing about Shang-chi other than his race. Hilarious. From 1940s to the 2000s Bucky had no powers. After the experiments he became Winter Soldier. That has been since the mid 2000s No, but you refer to the Marvel Universe not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. No point in saying you meant the MCU, because you bring up Conan - a non-MCU character - as the only example where a white guy fits the non-superpower category. And Conan has been becoming less white recently himself.
I think he is supposed to be Celtic or something.
Black Panther did not originally have superpowers though. Yes he has a fancy hi-tech costume now, but he didn't originally.
Like Shang-Chi, his natural athleticism was enough. Not so with batman I should point out. He is a tool-user like Iron Man.
Luke Cage is another one.
What about Iron Fist? Let me check..
"Plunging his fists into the molten heart of the dragon Shou-Lao the Undying infused the dragon's superhuman energy into Rand. This, along with being trained by Lei Kung the Thunderer, gave Rand the power of the Iron Fist, allowing him to summon and focus his chi energy (also called natural energy or life force energy) to enhance his natural abilities to extraordinary levels. His strength, speed, stamina, durability, agility, reflexes and senses can all be greatly intensified, almost comparable to superhuman levels."
Ok he didnt start out all-natural either. What a surprise.
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Post by sostie on Apr 20, 2021 15:39:10 GMT
So your concern now is if a white character doesn't have superpowers he is represented as having character flaws, Whereas a Black and Asian character are being shown as non-powered and flawless as part of a political agenda - despite the fact that Black Panther DOES have superpowers and you know absolutely nothing about Shang-chi other than his race. Hilarious. From 1940s to the 2000s Bucky had no powers. After the experiments he became Winter Soldier. That has been since the mid 2000s No, but you refer to the Marvel Universe not the Marvel Cinematic Universe. No point in saying you meant the MCU, because you bring up Conan - a non-MCU character - as the only example where a white guy fits the non-superpower category. Black Panther did not originally have superpowers though.
Yes he did - enhanced speed, strength, senses etc. He's black and has superhuman strength and bulletproof skin. I'm struggling to work out what point you are making and how it supports your argument.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 15:44:37 GMT
The cinematography looks pretty good here. And I’m so happy that Marvel is now fully distanced from the low contrast color grading of Phase Two. Plus, no handheld in the action scenes! 👍🏻👍🏻 I was worried about that but there looks to be absolutely no shaky cam! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Plus FOO DOGS!
Which brings me to my only concern: the merging of the realism with the fantastical elements. Rumors indicate that Fin Fang Fomo will be in this too. I often find that movies with fantastical elements work better when the entire movie has an element of surrealism to it, Modern comic movies seem to like to contain those elements to Act Three while “grounding” the previous two acts in realism. This have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too approach typically makes for a very disjointed tone.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 17:58:28 GMT
Yes he did - enhanced speed, strength, senses etc. He's black and has superhuman strength and bulletproof skin. I'm struggling to work out what point you are making and how it supports your argument. I'll give you Luke Cage since his superpowers are not advertised. He has no shield like Captain America-so he isn't tool reliant.
In the case of Black Panther he had a tribal connection to a god-he was considered the best of the tribe--this was something traditional and with his consent (unlike Thor-where his Earthly host was a crippled guy). Good luck finding a white Marvel character who has comparable powers to Shang-Chi (though I suppose being Fu Manchu's son is a negative but I assume they don't consider that part of the character anymore).
There is no natural hero character who is white in Marvel who doesn't need some kind of special tool assistance. Conan is the only one who entered the Marvel Universe with that story. The Punisher uses weaponry more than anything else and he's not really a hero in the normal sense either--he's a vigilante. Shang-Chi is not regarded as an anti-hero.
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Post by sostie on Apr 20, 2021 18:40:29 GMT
Yes he did - enhanced speed, strength, senses etc. He's black and has superhuman strength and bulletproof skin. I'm struggling to work out what point you are making and how it supports your argument. I'll give you Luke Cage since his superpowers are not advertised. He has no shield like Captain America-so he isn't tool reliant.
In the case of Black Panther he had a tribal connection to a god-he was considered the best of the tribe--this was something traditional and with his consent (unlike Thor-where his Earthly host was a crippled guy). Good luck finding a white Marvel character who has comparable powers to Shang-Chi (though I suppose being Fu Manchu's son is a negative but I assume they don't consider that part of the character anymore).
There is no natural hero character who is white in Marvel who doesn't need some kind of special tool assistance. Conan is the only one who entered the Marvel Universe with that story. The Punisher uses weaponry more than anything else and he's not really a hero in the normal sense either--he's a vigilante. Shang-Chi is not regarded as an anti-hero.
I have still no idea what you are trying to say. You are flip flopping between film and comics, between what is or isn't defined as superpowers, excluding tech to meet a confusing conclusion, and all the time not giving anything to back up your statement that a film with a Black lead and a film with an Asian lead - in a franchise of 20 plus films with a white lead - is proof of Disney's anti-European political agenda! Just be honest and say YOU do not want to see films with a black or Asian lead. You are obviously not a fan of comic books and their adaptations because if you were you'd be happy to see these on screen (unless of course you ONLY like white comic book characters). So the simple solution, don't watch the films, and don't try and create some fucked up justification as to why they shouldn't be made.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 19:01:23 GMT
I have still no idea what you are trying to say. You are flip flopping between film and comics, between what is or isn't defined as superpowers, excluding tech to meet a confusing conclusion, and all the time not giving anything to back up your statement that a film with a Black lead and a film with an Asian lead - in a franchise of 20 plus films with a white lead - is proof of Disney's anti-European political agenda! Just be honest and say YOU do not want to see films with a black or Asian lead. You are obviously not a fan of comic books and their adaptations because if you were you'd be happy to see these on screen (unless of course you ONLY like white comic book characters). So the simple solution, don't watch the films, and don't try and create some fucked up justification as to why they shouldn't be made.
Shang-Chi has no super powers nor does he rely on any kind of tool mechanisms for his very survival. He's a natural hero. You cannot find a white character in Marvel (or DC either) that is the same. They always have science or some kind of magical assistance and usually because they are flawed. Please point out the flaws in Shang-Chi (or Black Panther). I don't care about having asian or black lead characters--it certainly is not new--it's been done for decades in various countries. I.e. The Man From Hong Kong--1975 film. So that isn't the issue-it is that Disney's management has some problem with white characters especially white males. They find them troubling or scary or something. I don't know their thinking and I don't want to know.
There is a double standard you just are willfully blind to it. Marvel didn't make the gatekeeper as Asgard black or Nick Fury black by accident.
It is part of the bizarre multicultural propaganda antics.
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Post by Downey on Apr 20, 2021 19:35:08 GMT
And even though it probably will do well in China, I don’t think the MCU has really pandered to the Asian market regarding casting. Maybe politically, but not regarding Asian actors. Sure, one was shoehorned into IM3 but Chinese audiences don’t seem to really care if there is Asian representation in films. They aren’t like India, who have a market where foreign films find it very hard to penetrate. The main thing is Disney does not want to make films for Europeans like they used to. So they have to run around the globe to avoid the whiteness. There's a million stories they can tell to attract European audiences but that violates their political ideology.
It's ok to do a Chinese of African action man but they won't do it with a white guy.
Even if they knew they would make money.
Prime etc did you just say that Marvel wouldn't do a film with a white action man but with a African or Chinese man instead? |
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 19:48:07 GMT
Prime etc did you just say that Marvel wouldn't do a film with a white action man but with a African or Chinese man instead? Meaning the non-white "action man" will be more successful without needing science or help--i.e. Captain America gets saved by Bucky----let's put it this way--you won't see a Fat Black Panther or Fat Shang-Chi. They won't pull that stunt with one of those characters.
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Post by Downey on Apr 20, 2021 19:51:44 GMT
Prime etc did you just say that Marvel wouldn't do a film with a white action man but with a African or Chinese man instead? Meaning the non-white "action man" will be more successful without needing science or help--i.e. Captain America gets saved by Bucky----let's put it this way--you won't see a Fat Black Panther or Fat Shang-Chi. They won't pull that stunt with one of those characters.
Thor didn't need any help and he was as white as you could get. Also Black Panther still needs wakanda tech. |
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Post by politicidal on Apr 20, 2021 19:55:08 GMT
The cinematography looks pretty good here. And I’m so happy that Marvel is now fully distanced from the low contrast color grading of Phase Two. Plus, no handheld in the action scenes! 👍🏻👍🏻 I was worried about that but there looks to be absolutely no shaky cam! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Plus FOO DOGS! Which brings me to my only concern: the merging of the realism with the fantastical elements. Rumors indicate that Fin Fang Fomo will be in this too. I often find that movies with fantastical elements work better when the entire movie has an element of surrealism to it, Modern comic movies seem to like to contain those elements to Act Three while “grounding” the previous two acts in realism. This have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too approach typically makes for a very disjointed tone. Fin Fang Foom would be awesome. |
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Post by sostie on Apr 20, 2021 20:03:00 GMT
I have still no idea what you are trying to say. You are flip flopping between film and comics, between what is or isn't defined as superpowers, excluding tech to meet a confusing conclusion, and all the time not giving anything to back up your statement that a film with a Black lead and a film with an Asian lead - in a franchise of 20 plus films with a white lead - is proof of Disney's anti-European political agenda! Just be honest and say YOU do not want to see films with a black or Asian lead. You are obviously not a fan of comic books and their adaptations because if you were you'd be happy to see these on screen (unless of course you ONLY like white comic book characters). So the simple solution, don't watch the films, and don't try and create some fucked up justification as to why they shouldn't be made.
Shang-Chi has no super powers nor does he rely on any kind of tool mechanisms for his very survival. He's a natural hero. You cannot find a white character in Marvel (or DC either) that is the same. They always have science or some kind of magical assistance and usually because they are flawed.
So you can find no comparison in Marvel or DC? Here's an idea..maybe he is a one of a kind. He happens to be asian..so what. Maybe a film is being made because it is different to the majority of other films they made in the franchise rather than "bizarre multicultural propaganda antics". He wasn't created for that purpose...he's been published since the early 70's, had a long print run, was very popular and was made when a deal to adapt the popular TV series Kung-Fu fell through (remember that show...the one when an Asian star was snubbed in favour of a white actor....aaah the good old days) As for a white hero. Well I did point out Bucky being non powered for over 50 years in the comics but you chose to ignore that No idea how he is going to be portrayed in the film. Black Panther? Arrogant, isolationist, vengeful, has daddy issues, stubborn. It seems you do seeing you think the reason these are being made is some sort of political agenda and made to perhaps alienate "Europeans" Yeah, because there is nothing worse than seeing a film where characters have flaws or frailties!! It's so much more interesting when they are perfect examples of humanity isn't it Really? You seem to think you know: "Disney does not want to make films for Europeans like they used to", "There's a million stories they can tell to attract European audiences but that violates their political ideology", "It is part of the bizarre multicultural propaganda antics" Heimdall didn't need to be black...neither did he need to be white. Asgard in Marvel is not populated by Scandinavians...it is a planetery body in space, a few Asgardians visited Earth (Norway) in the past and they were seen as Gods. Earth created the blonde/white look based on who visited. Why shouldn't the place have people that look like they are from different races, much like Earth (and other planets). Why was Perry White black in Man Of Steel, Deadshot black in Suicide Squad, Harvey Dent Black in Batman? Do Warner's have some secret agenda as well? Nick Fury? He was black for many years in the comics and his likeness was based on Sanuel L Jackson...so why not get Jackson to portray him? I'm sure Disney considered Samuel L Jackson to play Fury to promote their bizarre multicultural propaganda antics, rather than the fact that a version of the character was based on him. EDIT: I just remembered... Disney didn't own Marvel when Thor and Incredible Hulk were made. Disney had fuck all to do with the casting of those characters. So I guess they weren't applying Disney's bizarre multicultural propaganda antics.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 20, 2021 20:38:53 GMT
Thor didn't need any help and he was as white as you could get. Also Black Panther still needs wakanda tech. Of course he needed help-his hammer---he was an alien too.
Black Panther didnt need all that hi-tech stuff originally and in the movie he is still triumphant--what do his color-coded friends say? "Have to save whitey again?"
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