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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2021 18:19:43 GMT
Lando is also criticized for dressing like a pimp, which was also intentional. Suave black space pimp Lando Calrissian. Hey, he was a fun character, I enjoyed watching him. But it doesn't get much more stereotypical than that. Only when he has no choice does he decide to help his friends, is he really elevated as a character above all others? People are 'selected' for promotion all the time in Hollywood. Look at Sam Worthington; a terrible actor who had a run where he was in everything for a while. Somebody was trying hard to get that guy to the next level. Regarding Will Smith, do you honestly believe Hollywood was actively trying to keep the next Tom Cruise from appearing so they could sell Will Smith? You don't think they'd be happy to have more than one cash cow? Not sure what you mean by a drop in movie content in the 90s, it's regarded as one of the better decades for cinema.
Going backwards--the 90s is certainly not regarded as one of the better decades--compared to today-maybe.
Tom Cruise and Worthington are in fact part of the same political trends.
Worthington is bland--that's no accident. Cruise like DiCaprio, is foisted into roles he is not suited for. They had to give Cruise elevator shoes to play a German officer in one movie (don't worry that there won't be a shortage of WW 2 movies--they could start a WW 2 movie channel, they have so many).
As for Lando, you read his character arc all wrong----he is the one successful character in the series--he's a successful business man, he didnt have much choice to help Vader- he kept challenging Vader about the change in agreement--he was no bad guy---and then he decided finally "I'll activate my white man assistant Lobot to call in the cavalry."
Movie diversity has gone down not up. There were way more black lead movies in the 1970s than now. What's happening is they are cutting the variety--and saying: "Oh look! We have a Chinese superhero now!"
A quarter of this list of the top 100 films are from the 1990s, including two of the top five of all time. Cruise and DiCaprio-- they're leading men. They use leading men to get people to see the movie in the first place, it's a practice as old as stage acting. If you think Worthington is on the same talent level (or even the same stratosphere when it comes to presence or charisma) as those two, I don't know what to say. I never said Lando was a villain, I said his persona was a ridiculous stereotype. I most certainly didn't read his arc all wrong. At best he's an opportunist, and his character would be the first to tell you that. He morphs from scoundrel to hero over the series in a fashion similar to Han Solo. If film diversity has gone down, not up, what are you complaining about? This Hollywood conspiracy to elevate black people in film and depict whites as clueless, helpless, sinister beings has clearly failed.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 18:47:50 GMT
A quarter of this list of the top 100 films are from the 1990s, including two of the top five of all time. Cruise and DiCaprio-- they're leading men. They use leading men to get people to see the movie in the first place, it's a practice as old as stage acting. If you think Worthington is on the same talent level (or even the same stratosphere when it comes to presence or charisma) as those two, I don't know what to say. I never said Lando was a villain, I said his persona was a ridiculous stereotype. I most certainly didn't read his arc all wrong. At best he's an opportunist, and his character would be the first to tell you that. He morphs from scoundrel to hero over the series in a fashion similar to Han Solo. If film diversity has gone down, not up, what are you complaining about? This Hollywood conspiracy to elevate black people in film and depict whites as clueless, helpless, sinister beings has clearly failed.
I am not going to take the Hollywood Reporter as the litmus test for whether 1990s movies are considered good.
Put Cruise and DiCaprio next to Charlton Heston or John Wayne etc...they would look like bus boys. Even next to Mickey Rooney they would be struggling to hold the focus.
They just aren't the same type of charismatic leading man.
How was Lando a ridiculous stereotype? Were there many black industrialists depicted in movies then?
He was talking about mining and government interference. He didn't speak jive. Han Solo was a bum from the beginning. What did Lando call him? A loser?
Diversity in film variety has gone down as they emphasize diversity in race for film jobs.
Not a good thing. For anyone.
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Post by sostie on Apr 21, 2021 18:49:00 GMT
and the next big star that was available just happened to be black.
Will Smith was selected to be promoted. It didn't happen by chance.
At what point did he get promoted? After his successful music career? After his successful TV show? After his highly regarded & reviewed first dramatic film role? Yet, you wouldn't say Bruce Willis was "chosen" would you. Successful TV show, successful music career, a few OK movies, a breakthrough role, action movie lead. He'd get that on merit How about Mark Wahlberg. Successful music career, a few OK movies, a breakthrough role, action movie lead. Merit or selected for promotion? A white guy can improve his career and it's OK. A black guy does it and it is given to him so he can be used as a tool to enforce a underhand Hollywood agenda Of course her Oscar nominated debut had nothing to do with being considered for lead roles Mark Wahlberg had 3 action films in the 90s...he's a little younger than Smith John Cusack did his first action films in the 90s...he's 2 years older than Smith Christian Slater started doing action films, and did more than Smith, in the 90s..he's a year younger Brendan Fraser had the lead in The Mummy, and went on to do more - he's the same age
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 21, 2021 18:50:51 GMT
Not sure how to feel about this to be honest. The fight choreography seems top notch but looks like they're using wire-fu which is pretty inconsistent with the rest of the MCU. Right now I can't shake the image of it being a mash-up of Ironfist and Mulan. Just hope it turns out way better than both. Not a big fan of wire-fu. I though the stuff on the bus had a Jackie Chan vibe to it, which while unexpected, seemed like it could make for a fun movie. Honestly it doesn't look great, but it doesn't look bad either. I want to see another trailer to get a better feel for the tone of the movie. Same, not a fan of wire-fu. I appreciated it back in the day, like, when I was around 9 years old. But I feel like it's a thing of the past and detracts from the usual hard-hitting fight choreography of the MCU. So far this trailer isn't bad... just doesn't really give me anything to be excited for.
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Post by sostie on Apr 21, 2021 19:03:43 GMT
Lando is also criticized for dressing like a pimp, which was also intentional. Suave black space pimp Lando Calrissian. Hey, he was a fun character, I enjoyed watching him. But it doesn't get much more stereotypical than that. Only when he has no choice does he decide to help his friends, is he really elevated as a character above all others? People are 'selected' for promotion all the time in Hollywood. Look at Sam Worthington; a terrible actor who had a run where he was in everything for a while. Somebody was trying hard to get that guy to the next level. Regarding Will Smith, do you honestly believe Hollywood was actively trying to keep the next Tom Cruise from appearing so they could sell Will Smith? You don't think they'd be happy to have more than one cash cow? Not sure what you mean by a drop in movie content in the 90s, it's regarded as one of the better decades for cinema.
As for Lando, you read his character arc all wrong----he is the one successful character in the series--he's a successful business man, he didnt have much choice to help Vader- he kept challenging Vader about the change in agreement--he was no bad guy---and then he decided finally "I'll activate my white man assistant Lobot to call in the cavalry."
And at the same time contradicting your assertion that Disney doesn't have black leads with negative personality flaws and traits. Lando has plenty Cruise has worn shoe lifts on and off screen for years. It's well known. Wearing them in Valkyrie was no different to other films. He chooses to.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2021 19:13:46 GMT
A quarter of this list of the top 100 films are from the 1990s, including two of the top five of all time. Cruise and DiCaprio-- they're leading men. They use leading men to get people to see the movie in the first place, it's a practice as old as stage acting. If you think Worthington is on the same talent level (or even the same stratosphere when it comes to presence or charisma) as those two, I don't know what to say. I never said Lando was a villain, I said his persona was a ridiculous stereotype. I most certainly didn't read his arc all wrong. At best he's an opportunist, and his character would be the first to tell you that. He morphs from scoundrel to hero over the series in a fashion similar to Han Solo. If film diversity has gone down, not up, what are you complaining about? This Hollywood conspiracy to elevate black people in film and depict whites as clueless, helpless, sinister beings has clearly failed.
I am not going to take the Hollywood Reporter as the litmus test for whether 1990s movies are considered good.
Put Cruise and DiCaprio next to Charlton Heston or John Wayne etc...they would look like bus boys. Even next to Mickey Rooney they would be struggling to hold the focus.
They just aren't the same type of charismatic leading man.
How was Lando a ridiculous stereotype? Were there many black industrialists depicted in movies then?
He was talking about mining and government interference. He didn't speak jive. Han Solo was a bum from the beginning. What did Lando call him? A loser?
Diversity in film variety has gone down as they emphasize diversity in race for film jobs.
Not a good thing. For anyone.
What source would you accept? Dig up a top 100 films list that doesn't have a significant representation from the 1990s. DiCaprio isn't the same as those guys. He actually has range. But arguing over which leading man is your favorite isn't the real point here. Why did Lando have a cape? Honestly it doesn't matter. You're arguing Lando, the guy who sells them out to the empire and only switches sides when Vader threatens to take over his entire operation, is somehow depicted as morally superior to the other characters? How many black characters were there in the original Star Wars movies? Aren't you one of the guys complaining there are no positive white males in the new Star Wars movies? Sounds like they've made progress in diversity hires. The variety of film is due to people not going to cinemas in general. How would the lack of diversity in film be due to the emphasis on diversity on screen, when one of the things I've seen people complain about on this site is minorities playing roles that simply could not have existed in historical films? Lack of diversity isn't good for the cinemas, neither are streaming services. But that's the way things are headed.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 19:24:40 GMT
And at the same time contradicting your assertion that Disney doesn't have black leads with negative personality flaws and traits. Lando has plenty I said Disney wouldnt make a heroic white character without flaws. They already did the flawless black superhero. Lando Calrissian comes form FOX-and in his best-known incarnation, he was successful and not presented in a negative fashion.
What Disney does with the character matters less if the white male character is given the same treatment or worse.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 19:33:03 GMT
What source would you accept? Dig up a top 100 films list that doesn't have a significant representation from the 1990s. DiCaprio isn't the same as those guys. He actually has range. But arguing over which leading man is your favorite isn't the real point here. Why did Lando have a cape? Honestly it doesn't matter. You're arguing Lando, the guy who sells them out to the empire and only switches sides when Vader threatens to take over his entire operation, is somehow depicted as morally superior to the other characters? Lack of diversity isn't good for the cinemas, neither are streaming services. But that's the way things are headed. Lack of diversity in entertainment selections is bad but Hollywood doesn't care. The problem is they don't want people to make their own creative choices. They want to control it. Yes, they have Byron Allen and few other black business men but they are controlled--if they go outside of what is acceptable to the gatekeepers they will get the Cosby treatment.
He had a cape to look more dashing probably.
DiCaprio is forced into roles he isn't suited for. Part of Hollywood's downsizing.
50 years ago they would never have someone like him-who played retarded characters and the wimpy sidekick in a western, as the leading man--playing J Edgar Hoover and the Richard Harris role from The Man In the Wilderness.
They would pick two different types. Ditto with Johnny Depp-who was Dillinger and Tonto and Barnabas Collins. It isn't because he has more range--it is because Hollywood wants to hire less. It's down-sizing. The more diversity they harp about, the less content variety there is.
I know for a fact that movies from the last 30 years are not as well regarded as ones from decades ago. I see it here--people hardly ever quote from 90s movies--they quote the 80s and earlier.
"If Matrix was here, he'd laugh too."
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Post by sostie on Apr 21, 2021 19:38:00 GMT
And at the same time contradicting your assertion that Disney doesn't have black leads with negative personality flaws and traits. Lando has plenty I said Disney wouldnt make a heroic white character without flaws.
At the same time pointing out the black & Asian heroic characters don't have flaws. And the most recent incarnation was from Disney...and he was a hero...and successful...AND he had character flaws.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 19:41:39 GMT
At the same time pointing out the black & Asian heroic characters don't have flaws. I said a superhero like Shang-Chi or Falcon.
If Lando is a superhero it is news to me.
As I said, you can let me know when they give white characters that kind of treatment.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2021 19:56:01 GMT
What source would you accept? Dig up a top 100 films list that doesn't have a significant representation from the 1990s. DiCaprio isn't the same as those guys. He actually has range. But arguing over which leading man is your favorite isn't the real point here. Why did Lando have a cape? Honestly it doesn't matter. You're arguing Lando, the guy who sells them out to the empire and only switches sides when Vader threatens to take over his entire operation, is somehow depicted as morally superior to the other characters? Lack of diversity isn't good for the cinemas, neither are streaming services. But that's the way things are headed. Lack of diversity in entertainment selections is bad but Hollywood doesn't care. The problem is they don't want people to make their own creative choices. They want to control it. Yes, they have Byron Allen and few other black business men but they are controlled--if they go outside of what is acceptable to the gatekeepers they will get the Cosby treatment.
He had a cape to look more dashing probably.
DiCaprio is forced into roles he isn't suited for. Part of Hollywood's downsizing.
50 years ago they would never have someone like him-who played retarded characters and the wimpy sidekick in a western, as the leading man--playing J Edgar Hoover and the Richard Harris role from The Man In the Wilderness.
They would pick two different types. Ditto with Johnny Depp-who was Dillinger and Tonto and Barnabas Collins. It isn't because he has more range--it is because Hollywood wants to hire less. It's down-sizing. The more diversity they harp about, the less content variety there is.
I know for a fact that movies from the last 30 years are not as well regarded as ones from decades ago. I see it here--people hardly ever quote from 90s movies--they quote the 80s and earlier.
"If Matrix was here, he'd laugh too."
DiCaprio makes his own choices, has for a while. The Revenant was one of many flicks DiCaprio specifically chose while chasing the Oscar he received for that flick (which wasn't his best performance in my opinion). You're picking and choosing roles 20 years apart to prove your point, that's disingenuous at best. Yeah, DiCaprio played different roles when he was 19-22 years old compared to his late 30s-40s. Go figure. Your opinion of 90s film is your own, but it isn't backed up by the countless lists you can look up for yourself. And the 90s were decades ago at this point. Sure they quote 90s movies, you probably don't realize it because you've never seen the films. The problem with Hollywood today is that everything is IP; there are no movie stars under 40 who can open a movie with their name alone, and it isn't because Hollywood is trying to force feed us the next black superstar. Studios are taking less chances because the probable return on investment in theaters is as dicey as ever. Film studios in America have always been about revenue, not art (well, with the exception of New Hollywood). Today the money is in IP; who you cast is secondary. The film has to be an event, not a showcase for the actor like the old days. That's the stuff that largely goes to art house cinemas and streaming services.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 20:11:33 GMT
DiCaprio makes his own choices, has for a while. The problem with Hollywood today is that everything is IP; there are no movie stars under 40 who can open a movie with their name alone, and it isn't because Hollywood is trying to force feed us the next black superstar. Studios are taking less chances because the probable return on investment in theaters is as dicey as ever. Film studios in America have always been about revenue, not art (well, with the exception of New Hollywood). Today the money is in IP; who you cast is secondary. The film has to be an event, not a showcase for the actor like the old days. That's the stuff that largely goes to art house cinemas and streaming services. DiCaprio does what he is told to do. Same with Cruise. This was true even in the days of Heston and others-they were controlled to the extent they could be in those days.
Hollywood Accounting means "we lie about business." That's the actual definition.
Hollywood is corrupt. If anything shows Hollywood is not governed by making profit or understanding audience taste-- Movie 43. Obviously those who appeared in it were forced to--and it was a joke to someone, but not the audiences. No concern that them appearing in that film might harm their box office reputation? I thought profit was everything?
Likewise someone makes a joke about child abuse and Disney gives him multi-million deals.
Hollywood is corrupt. The best way for improvement is for it to be rebooted away from Los Angeles and New York.
Hollywood is how not run a business basically.
It's like a King's spoiled nephew making everyone in the kingdom hear his singing when he can't sing. That is what Hollywood has become because it has completely gutted the European origins of cinema art. Film originated in Europe as did the dramatic structure of film. And Hollywood grafted onto it in the beginning but over time it has slowly whittled it away so you end up with something exotic and chaotic.
Black Panther isn't a black culture movie. The character wasn't even created by blacks. There was a black superhero made by a black creator--Lion Man he was called.
Why no Lion Man movie? I know why.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2021 20:21:57 GMT
DiCaprio makes his own choices, has for a while. The problem with Hollywood today is that everything is IP; there are no movie stars under 40 who can open a movie with their name alone, and it isn't because Hollywood is trying to force feed us the next black superstar. Studios are taking less chances because the probable return on investment in theaters is as dicey as ever. Film studios in America have always been about revenue, not art (well, with the exception of New Hollywood). Today the money is in IP; who you cast is secondary. The film has to be an event, not a showcase for the actor like the old days. That's the stuff that largely goes to art house cinemas and streaming services. DiCaprio does what he is told to do. Same with Cruise. This was true even in the days of Heston and others-they were controlled to the extent they could be in those days.
Hollywood Accounting means "we lie about business." That's the actual definition.
Hollywood is corrupt. If anything shows Hollywood is not governed by making profit or understanding audience taste-- Movie 43. Obviously those who appeared in it were forced to--and it was a joke to someone, but not the audiences. No concern that them appearing in that film might harm their box office reputation? I thought profit was everything?
Likewise someone makes a joke about child abuse and Disney gives him multi-million deals.
Hollywood is corrupt. The best way for improvement is for it to be rebooted away from Los Angeles and New York.
Hollywood is how not run a business basically.
It's like a King's spoiled nephew making everyone in the kingdom hear his singing when he can't sing. That is what Hollywood has become because it has completely gutted the European origins of cinema art. Film originated in Europe as did the dramatic structure of film. And Hollywood grafted onto it in the beginning but over time it has slowly whittled it away so you end up with something exotic and chaotic.
Black Panther isn't a black culture movie. The character wasn't even created by blacks. There was a black superhero made by a black creator--Lion Man he was called.
Why no Lion Man movie? I know why.
Ah yes. Bad movies exist, therefore the intent for every other film is not to make money. Your posts have become more indecipherable as this conversation has gone on. Not sure why you're on a site about movies if you hate Hollywood so much. Whatever you say. Thanks, it's been fun.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2021 20:26:40 GMT
Not sure why you're on a site about movies if you hate Hollywood so much. Because Hollywood is not the only place to have made films (thank god).
And the erosion of merit took some time to develop inside it as well.
I just don't have any interest in newer films and expressed the reasons why. Too political and lack of merit in decision making.
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Post by tastytomatoes on Apr 22, 2021 10:45:13 GMT
Ooh shiny. So... my guess is that masked character is played by Michelle Yeoh.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 24, 2021 15:57:48 GMT
New trailer coming tonight.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 25, 2021 1:37:43 GMT
Ok, I have to admit that new trailer has gotten me more interested in this movie. I'm currently looking forward to it more than Black Widow and Eternals now.
And that's coming from someone who had almost zero interest in this in the beginning.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 25, 2021 18:10:08 GMT
Ok, I have to admit that new trailer has gotten me more interested in this movie. I'm currently looking forward to it more than Black Widow and Eternals now. And that's coming from someone who had almost zero interest in this in the beginning. I'm still more interested in Black Widow but this probably edged out Eternals as far as anticipation goes for me. It looks like they'll really make the father-son dynamic between him and Mandarin front-and-center. And while I'm still kind of irked we're getting the "real" Mandarin now eight years after Iron Man 3, Tony Leung is shaping up to be a good casting choice.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 25, 2021 19:09:33 GMT
Ok, I have to admit that new trailer has gotten me more interested in this movie. I'm currently looking forward to it more than Black Widow and Eternals now. And that's coming from someone who had almost zero interest in this in the beginning. I'm still more interested in Black Widow but this probably edged out Eternals as far as anticipation goes for me. It looks like they'll really make the father-son dynamic between him and Mandarin front-and-center. And while I'm still kind of irked we're getting the "real" Mandarin now eight years after Iron Man 3, Tony Leung is shaping up to be a good casting choice. I'm probably a bit biased against Black Widow mostly because I really don't like Scarjo as Black Widow. I'm looking forward to that movie more for Florence Plugh.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 29, 2021 1:05:20 GMT
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