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Post by mstreepsucks on Apr 22, 2021 20:38:34 GMT
1st of all, what do i know about film? Nothing... however.
The fact that they didn't plan it out beforehand , episodes 7 8 and 9 I mean is one thing i hear people say is one of the problems. Dare i say, that in my opinion it actually isn't a problem at all.
I don't think for this particular trilogy that planning it out could have even resulted in something that was good. Because some ppl say, that they should have planned it out. But it's like, plan what out?
See what i'm saying. Also, just watch the spider-Man trilogy instead of this, people would probably like it better.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Apr 22, 2021 21:19:47 GMT
I have no idea what you’re saying here. Of all the complaints about the sequel trilogy, the lack of planning is by far the most valid complaint.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Apr 22, 2021 21:27:10 GMT
A trilogy doesn’t necessarily need planning, but considering that TFA set up all kinds of mysteries that were intended to be explained in later films, the lack of planning is pretty egregious. George Lucas didn’t exactly have everything planned out when he made the original film, but it worked in that case, because the first Star Wars movie can stand perfectly fine on its own.
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DarkManX
Junior Member
@shadowrun
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Post by DarkManX on Apr 22, 2021 22:29:12 GMT
Lack of planning was a huge problem. Abrams had no plans despite saying he did. He just rehashed Episode IV. Disney should have kept a tighter grip on this and hired people with actual talent.
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Post by Archelaus on Apr 22, 2021 22:51:07 GMT
Criticizing the sequel trilogy for bad storytelling is a valid one. Disney and Lucasfilm knew from the start that they were making a trilogy. So, the least thing they could do is establish an endpoint for where you will take the characters and the overarching story and commit to it.
For what it's worth, Rian Johnson did answer the questions The Force Awakens left behind. Rey wasn't related to somebody significant and Luke exiled himself for failing to prevent Ben Solo from falling to the dark side.
Killing Snoke midway through the film without explaining who he is was a ballsy move, and it left whoever was to direct Episode IX no choice but to keep Kylo Ren as the new main villain. Instead, they resurrect Palpatine, which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but there was just no foreshadowing to it. Retconning Rey to be Palpatine's granddaughter felt forced. So, it became clear that this narrative lacked a coherent vision because of the contradictory plot points.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Apr 23, 2021 3:43:55 GMT
Let's look at the big picture here, just sayin'.
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Post by onethreetwo on Apr 23, 2021 4:04:05 GMT
Lolol this is one of the best mstreepsucks OP's in a while.
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Post by Winter_King on Apr 23, 2021 8:27:17 GMT
Not having a road map where the story goes is clearly a big issue with the new trilogy. Hell the prequel trilogy is better for this reason alone. At least they know where they are going. Anakin was going to become Darth Vaderwasn't something that invented for the last movie like the Emperor returning in The Rise of Skywalker.
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Post by politicidal on Apr 23, 2021 13:46:12 GMT
Well that's your interpretation.
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Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Apr 23, 2021 15:47:48 GMT
The problem is more the lack of a singular guiding creative force to keep the various directors on track.
Lucas didn't have the OT completely mapped out, but he also didn't just hand the creative reigns over to the other directors either. He was the guiding force for all three films.
Lucas entrusted Kathleen Kennedy to do the same thing, but she didn't. Kennedy just gave each director carte blanche to do whatever they wanted creatively, and it hurt the sequel trilogy.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Apr 23, 2021 17:14:20 GMT
i think the reason why some here, disagree. Is maybe because i left out the most important thing to make what i said actually make sense. I forgot.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Apr 23, 2021 22:41:08 GMT
It's amazing the difference between the DT and the rebooted Planet of the Apes trilogy.
That wasn't pre-planned either and there was a switch of directors after the first one. Yet it turned out to be a fantastic, well crafted story which followed on from the previous movie and had a superb nuanced villain who actually had a plausible explanation given for his "fall to the dark side", making his motivations understandable.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Apr 24, 2021 18:19:00 GMT
Not having a road map where the story goes is clearly a big issue with the new trilogy. Hell the prequel trilogy is better for this reason alone. At least they know where they are going. Anakin was going to become Darth Vaderwasn't something that invented for the last movie like the Emperor returning in The Rise of Skywalker. I would say it is likely though that if they did have a road map from the beginning, we would still have ended up with pretty much the films that we got anyway, based on the following:
With episode eight, they(he?) actually Tried to take things in a new direction(story wise)(which is good) but it still felt like the same thing(which is bad). It ended up being exactly more of the same, which is what the force awakens is...also.
They wouldn't be exactly the same films that we got, but it would be the equivelent of it, as far as quality goes.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 24, 2021 18:28:24 GMT
It's amazing the difference between the DT and the rebooted Planet of the Apes trilogy. That wasn't pre-planned either and there was a switch of directors after the first one. Yet it turned out to be a fantastic, well crafted story which followed on from the previous movie and had a superb nuanced villain who actually had a plausible explanation given for his "fall to the dark side", making his motivations understandable. Yeah. But what they did do is keep the same core of writers throughout that (reboot POTA) trilogy. Something that the SW Disney trilogy did not. Instead what Eiger and Kennedy did was hire directors to be writers for each film. Directors that Kennedy gave carte blanc to write whatever they wanted independent of the other movies, as long as they met her stipulations for character archetypes. If writers didn’t do that, they were fired. Which is why out of the long list of contributing writers over the entire trilogy, we wound up with the least experienced/least acclaimed writers being the primary writers... who also happened to be the directors (Abrams/Johnson/Abrams & Terrio). And we all have seen the subsequent results. But that’s how you insure better storytelling over the course of a trilogy. The way they did it with The Planet of the Apes reboot trilogy. Hire real writers and put priority on writing cohesiveness; building on what came before it.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 24, 2021 19:26:15 GMT
Not having a road map where the story goes is clearly a big issue with the new trilogy. Hell the prequel trilogy is better for this reason alone. At least they know where they are going. Anakin was going to become Darth Vaderwasn't something that invented for the last movie like the Emperor returning in The Rise of Skywalker. I would say it is likely though that if they did have a road map from the beginning, we would still have ended up with pretty much the films that we got anyway, based on the following:
With episode eight, they(he?) actually Tried to take things in a new direction(story wise)(which is good) but it still felt like the same thing(which is bad). It ended up being exactly more of the same, which is what the force awakens is...also.
They wouldn't be exactly the same films that we got, but it would be the equivelent of it, as far as quality goes.
I’m not so sure that I entirely agree. Would planning the entire trilogy have made it “good”? I don’t know? But not planning it definitely hurt it. From one film to next there was tonal inconsistency, plot inconsistencies, story and theme inconsistencies, even character inconsistencies. Let me explain. The first movie (as we all know) was largely rehashed from ANH. But Abrams did set some plot questions fans wanted to see answered in the trilogy going forward. The biggest one probably being who were Rey’s parents. Johnson seemed to answer that in a surprising twist with her parents being nobodies. That was a satisfying build on that plot point for many fans. But for others, no. Why? When you look at how much it affected every decision Rey made in TFA and how emotionally involved she was... it made that entire plot seem like melodramatic pointlessness. But either way it was major story continuance. Then in TROS Rey (plot twist) is made to be the secret daughter of the alpha villain; once again changing this major theme about what the character’s lineage is and what moral theme it hi-lights in the saga. It’s other things that suffered for the lack of a pre-planned vision for the entire trilogy. In TFA there was a big subplot of that lightsaber. It gave Rey visions. Kylo valued it. It seemed to have a special connection with Rey. Maz promised an explanation of it. And delivering it to Luke set up one of the greatest cliffhangers in cinematic history. In TLJ it was a gag prop Luke tossed over the cliff. It basically has no other significance after that until it’s ripped apart by Kylo and Rey in a Force pulling battle. (That’s inconsistent storytelling from poor planning). We all know about Snoke being killed off without any clue as to where he came from, how he came to be so powerful, and how he knew so much. Was it a surprising plot twist or just getting rid of the character because Johnson didn’t have a plan for him (and the trilogy hadn’t planned out his character)? Maybe it was both. In TFA Hux was a sneaky, conniving rival of Kylo. That was clearly his character archetype. In TLJ he was changed into a clueless stooge who Snoke and Kylo took turns at using for slapstick physical comedy. And in TROS Hux is a scorned backdrop character obsessed with embarrassing Kylo to the point of being a secret traitor to his own side. (That’s messy storytelling that comes from a lack of a cohesive vision). There’s lots more examples. The least of which might be the implausible way the First Order takes over the entire galaxy (at the beginning of TLJ) in the matter of literally one day! Or in TROS Lando rounding half the galaxy in a fighting fleet of ships in a matter of hours. There’s many more beyond that. But ultimately these were things that came out of unplanned lack of an overall vision for the entire trilogy... and the domino effect of writing flaws that it created.
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 25, 2021 2:12:26 GMT
It’s ok as long as someone doesn’t come along and ruin the second act.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Apr 26, 2021 20:45:12 GMT
I would say it is likely though that if they did have a road map from the beginning, we would still have ended up with pretty much the films that we got anyway, based on the following:
With episode eight, they(he?) actually Tried to take things in a new direction(story wise)(which is good) but it still felt like the same thing(which is bad). It ended up being exactly more of the same, which is what the force awakens is...also.
They wouldn't be exactly the same films that we got, but it would be the equivelent of it, as far as quality goes.
I’m not so sure that I entirely agree. Would planning the entire trilogy have made it “good”? I don’t know? But not planning it definitely hurt it. From one film to next there was tonal inconsistency, plot inconsistencies, story and theme inconsistencies, even character inconsistencies. Let me explain. The first movie (as we all know) was largely rehashed from ANH. But Abrams did set some plot questions fans wanted to see answered in the trilogy going forward. The biggest one probably being who were Rey’s parents. Johnson seemed to answer that in a surprising twist with her parents being nobodies. That was a satisfying build on that plot point for many fans. But for others, no. Why? When you look at how much it affected every decision Rey made in TFA and how emotionally involved she was... it made that entire plot seem like melodramatic pointlessness. But either way it was major story continuance. Then in TROS Rey (plot twist) is made to be the secret daughter of the alpha villain; once again changing this major theme about what the character’s lineage is and what moral theme it hi-lights in the saga. It’s other things that suffered for the lack of a pre-planned vision for the entire trilogy. In TFA there was a big subplot of that lightsaber. It gave Rey visions. Kylo valued it. It seemed to have a special connection with Rey. Maz promised an explanation of it. And delivering it to Luke set up one of the greatest cliffhangers in cinematic history. In TLJ it was a gag prop Luke tossed over the cliff. It basically has no other significance after that until it’s ripped apart by Kylo and Rey in a Force pulling battle. (That’s inconsistent storytelling from poor planning). We all know about Snoke being killed off without any clue as to where he came from, how he came to be so powerful, and how he knew so much. Was it a surprising plot twist or just getting rid of the character because Johnson didn’t have a plan for him (and the trilogy hadn’t planned out his character)? Maybe it was both. In TFA Hux was a sneaky, conniving rival of Kylo. That was clearly his character archetype. In TLJ he was changed into a clueless stooge who Snoke and Kylo took turns at using for slapstick physical comedy. And in TROS Hux is a scorned backdrop character obsessed with embarrassing Kylo to the point of being a secret traitor to his own side. (That’s messy storytelling that comes from a lack of a cohesive vision). There’s lots more examples. The least of which might be the implausible way the First Order takes over the entire galaxy (at the beginning of TLJ) in the matter of literally one day! Or in TROS Lando rounding half the galaxy in a fighting fleet of ships in a matter of hours. There’s many more beyond that. But ultimately these were things that came out of unplanned lack of an overall vision for the entire trilogy... and the domino effect of writing flaws that it created. Sure those details could have been done better sure if they wrote all the stories before-hand. I'm just sayin' i think the films have problems above and beyond that. I n my opinion anyway.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Apr 29, 2021 18:57:44 GMT
Strange, CreepedCrusader has not posted their comment yet defending Kathleen Kennedy.
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Post by mstreepsucks on May 3, 2021 5:21:16 GMT
Let's look at the big picture, shall we?
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Post by deembastille on May 3, 2021 10:07:08 GMT
How can anyone incorrectly criticize anything? It's an opinion.
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