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Post by OldSamVimes on May 26, 2021 14:43:25 GMT
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. Matter is spirit reduced to point of visibility. There is no matter.”
"Time and space are not conditions in which we live, but modes by which we think.
Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind, and are not, however it may seem, determined by the external world."
“Time does not exist – we invented it. Time is what the clock says. The distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.”
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me."
"The intellect has little to do on the road to discovery. There comes a leap in consciousness, call it intuition or what you will, the solution comes to you and you don’t know how or why.”
"A human being experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
"Our separation from each other is an optical illusion."
“When something vibrates, the electrons of the entire universe resonate with it. Everything is connected. The greatest tragedy of human existence is the illusion of separateness.”
“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
“We are souls dressed up in sacred biochemical garments and our bodies are the instruments through which our souls play their music.”
“When you examine the lives of the most influential people who have ever walked among us, you discover one thread that winds through them all. They have been aligned first with their spiritual nature and only then with their physical selves.”
“The true value of a human being can be found in the degree to which he has attained liberation from the self.”
“The ancients knew something, which we seem to have forgotten.”
“The more I learn of physics, the more I am drawn to metaphysics.”
“One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike. We still do not know one thousandth of one percent of what nature has revealed to us. It is entirely possible that behind the perception of our senses, worlds are hidden of which we are unaware.”
“I’m not an atheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books.”
"The common idea that I am an atheist is based on a big mistake. Anyone who interprets my scientific theories this way, did not understand them."
"Everything is determined, every beginning and ending, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It will transcend a personal God and avoid dogma and theology.”
“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.”
“Everything is energy and that is all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you can not help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics.”
"I am happy because I want nothing from anyone. I do not care about money. Decorations, titles or distinctions mean nothing to me. I do not crave praise. I claim credit for nothing. A happy man is too satisfied with the present to dwell too much on the future."
According to these quotes attributed to Einstein, no.
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Post by drystyx on May 26, 2021 15:14:53 GMT
That sums it all up, I think. "Science" has been distorted too much, and what people think of as "Science" isn't even what it was meant to be. "Science" is based on objectivity first, and there is no objectivity in any scientist. Every one in the field has an agenda. Control freaks who simply want to believe what they want to believe. What is considered "proof" is "delusion". They can't think outside the box themselves, and rely on going on a street and listening to a savage human who is capable of thinking outside the box in order to get a grasp of reality.
For example, today a Western person in the first world has been inundated with propaganda from birth. In my day, many of us weren't even allowed to see a TV until we snuck in to turn one on at about age 10 or so. Most parents would put the TV out of sight and just let kids watch the news. Ads were a bit more basic in those days, and until about 1980, only the filthy rich had color TVs.
A hundred years before, in 1880, there were magazines and books, and artwork.
People are told what to think, and what to think of other people. And even what to like. And if you spend as much brainwashing as the estates of today do, you're going to brainwash all the young minds. There's no defense against it for someone who is brainwashed from day one.
The ancient people, truly ancient people, prehistoric people, before they knew what mirrors were, didn't think of themselves as "nouns". I know because before I was about six, I didn't think of myself as a noun. Today, a baby is taught he is a noun within a few days of birth.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on May 26, 2021 22:53:28 GMT
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it"
Albert Einstein
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 4:35:36 GMT
No.
I just happen to not believe a spiritual world exists.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 6:25:27 GMT
No. I just happen to not believe a spiritual world exists. Apparently you can see it for yourself if you take a big hit of DMT.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 6:32:27 GMT
No. I just happen to not believe a spiritual world exists. Apparently you can see it for yourself if you take a big hit of DMT. I have no reason to believe that is true. There are people who have done DMT, experienced the same thing as people who claim reaching another world and still don't believe in the spiritual world. DMT is a mind-altering drug. There is no reason to think it is anything more.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 6:39:09 GMT
Apparently you can see it for yourself if you take a big hit of DMT. DMT is a drug messing with your mind state. DMT is a naturally occurring chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals. Apparently our brains flood with it when we pass away. I heard at a nursing conference that 70% of people who have an experience with psychedelics rank it not just as one of the most profound spiritual experiences of their lives, but one of the most profound experiences of their life period. Direct experience trumps second hand knowledge.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 6:43:03 GMT
DMT is a drug messing with your mind state. DMT is a naturally occurring chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals. Apparently our brains flood with it when we pass away. I heard at a nursing conference that 70% of people who have an experience with psychedelics rank it not just as one of the most profound spiritual experiences of their lives, but one of the most profound experiences of their life period. Direct experience trumps second hand knowledge. I am aware and nothing about that is good evidence for a spiritual world. Direct experience doesn't necessarily trump second hand knowledge. Direct experience from people who aren't skeptical is worthless imo. 70% of people aren't skeptics or critical thinkers.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 6:44:52 GMT
DMT is a naturally occurring chemical substance that occurs in many plants and animals. Apparently our brains flood with it when we pass away. I heard at a nursing conference that 70% of people who have an experience with psychedelics rank it not just as one of the most profound spiritual experiences of their lives, but one of the most profound experiences of their life period. Direct experience trumps second hand knowledge. Direct experience doesn't necessarily trump second hand knowledge. In the case of psychedelics it sure does. IMO without direct experience it's impossible to form a truly informed opinion.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 6:56:40 GMT
Direct experience doesn't necessarily trump second hand knowledge. In the case of psychedelics it sure does. IMO without direct experience it's impossible to form a truly informed opinion. I disagree in terms of knowing what is actually happening. The experience obviously trumps second hand knowledge, but the truth of what is happening might be unknowable. I love that you keep conveniently ignoring that there are people who have experienced the "spiritual" state during DMT and don't believe that it is anything more than a chemical mind fuck. That is also personal testimony. I will never know though, because I will never try DMT.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 7:07:02 GMT
In the case of psychedelics it sure does. IMO without direct experience it's impossible to form a truly informed opinion. I disagree in terms of knowing what is actually happening. The experience obviously trumps second hand knowledge, but the truth of what is happening might be unknowable. I love that you keep conveniently ignoring that there are people who have experienced the "spiritual" state during DMT and don't believe that it is anything more than a chemical mind fuck. That is also personal testimony. I will never know though, because I will never try DMT. Without firsthand experience you'll have to pick and choose who's personal testimonies to believe, but you'll have no way of knowing which ones might apply to you. For every person who says 'It was just mind fuck', there are others who say 'I'll never look at the world in the same way again'. Impossible to know what your experience would be. For someone I remember being a bit 'tired of life' I can't see how any potentially life changing new experiences can be easily dismissed. And as for the science, they're only now doing more studies on psychedelics since they were unjustly demonized in the 1960s. The work 'MAPS' has been doing is currently mainstream in the mental health field.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 7:16:02 GMT
I disagree in terms of knowing what is actually happening. The experience obviously trumps second hand knowledge, but the truth of what is happening might be unknowable. I love that you keep conveniently ignoring that there are people who have experienced the "spiritual" state during DMT and don't believe that it is anything more than a chemical mind fuck. That is also personal testimony. I will never know though, because I will never try DMT. Without firsthand experience you'll have to pick and choose who's personal testimonies to believe, but you'll have no way of knowing which ones might apply to you. For every person who says 'It was just mind fuck', there are others who say 'I'll never look at the world in the same way again'. Impossible to know what your experience would be. For someone I remember being a bit 'tired of life' I can't see how any potentially life changing new experiences can be easily dismissed. And as for the science, they're only now doing more studies on psychedelics since they were unjustly demonized in the 1960s. The work 'MAPS' has been doing is currently mainstream in the mental health field. Well, I'll never know then. I am not saying that I know it isn't taking you to some other realm, but I am nowhere near convinced by testimony that it does. The fact that people who have done it disagree about what is actually happening and some have different experiences, cancels out what my experience would lead me to believe anyway. My answer would be I don't know what happened. It might feel like some profound revelation when you take DMT, but that doesn't mean it is. The mind is extremely powerful. Anyway, I respect your opinion and had a good time discussing it with you.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 7:34:44 GMT
Without firsthand experience you'll have to pick and choose who's personal testimonies to believe, but you'll have no way of knowing which ones might apply to you. For every person who says 'It was just mind fuck', there are others who say 'I'll never look at the world in the same way again'. Impossible to know what your experience would be. For someone I remember being a bit 'tired of life' I can't see how any potentially life changing new experiences can be easily dismissed. And as for the science, they're only now doing more studies on psychedelics since they were unjustly demonized in the 1960s. The work 'MAPS' has been doing is currently mainstream in the mental health field. I am not saying that I know it isn't taking you to some other realm, but I am nowhere near convinced by testimony that it does. The fact that people who have done it disagree about what is actually happening and some have different experiences, cancels out what my experience would lead me to believe anyway. My answer would be I don't know what happened. It might feel like some profound revelation when you take DMT, but that doesn't mean it is. The mind is extremely powerful. Anyway, I respect your opinion and had a good time discussing it with you. No, you probably won't. But, if you ever do some mushrooms, LSD or DMT (Which I understand is much more powerful than the previous two), there's a 70% chance you'll have an experience that will overall positively affect your life, in some way. Compare that to the 50% success rate we see for a full trial of anti-depressants, where people have to take the medication daily for around 6 weeks. I'm also not an advocate of people doing a large dose of a psychedelic first time, in silicon valley 'micro-dosing' is a big thing, and it's done a lot in extreme sports too. Having all your senses just a bit more open and your response time a bit faster is an undeniable edge (I bet most of the UFC fighters do it). I have a good time discussing this with you too. Someone showed me this a few months ago, I found it hilarious:
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 7:38:00 GMT
I disagree in terms of knowing what is actually happening. The experience obviously trumps second hand knowledge, but the truth of what is happening might be unknowable. I love that you keep conveniently ignoring that there are people who have experienced the "spiritual" state during DMT and don't believe that it is anything more than a chemical mind fuck. That is also personal testimony. I will never know though, because I will never try DMT. Without firsthand experience you'll have to pick and choose who's personal testimonies to believe, but you'll have no way of knowing which ones might apply to you. For every person who says 'It was just mind fuck', there are others who say 'I'll never look at the world in the same way again'. Impossible to know what your experience would be. For someone I remember being a bit 'tired of life' I can't see how any potentially life changing new experiences can be easily dismissed. And as for the science, they're only now doing more studies on psychedelics since they were unjustly demonized in the 1960s. The work 'MAPS' has been doing is currently mainstream in the mental health field. Based on what I have read it sounds like the chemical that is the most naturally active during the process of death. This makes sense to me and considering that all human brains are similar that they would have somewhat similar experiences. I believe it is there naturally to give your mind a peaceful experience before death occurs. DMT the drug is making this happen unnaturally. That it is making something occur at a time when it isn't suppose to and that is why people think it is taking them to another realm of existence. This is another reason that I wouldn't trust that my experience was revealing any truth about a spiritual realm even if one exists. Maybe further neuroscience will be able to answer the question. I think it would be cool if their was a separate or related part of reality that was out there, but I am skeptical at the moment. I won't try DMT because I already have extreme anxiety and I get a bad reaction just smoking weed, so I am not willing to risk my mental state any further. I also don't know how to even get ahold of it, even if I wanted to try it. I don't know many people.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 7:40:18 GMT
Well, I'll never know then. I am not saying that I know it isn't taking you to some other realm, but I am nowhere near convinced by testimony that it does. The fact that people who have done it disagree about what is actually happening and some have different experiences, cancels out what my experience would lead me to believe anyway. My answer would be I don't know what happened. It might feel like some profound revelation when you take DMT, but that doesn't mean it is. The mind is extremely powerful. Anyway, I respect your opinion and had a good time discussing it with you. No, you probably won't. But, if you ever do some mushrooms, LSD or DMT (Which I understand is much more powerful than the previous two), there's a 70% chance you'll have an experience that will overall positively affect your life, in some way. Compare that to the 50% success rate we see for a full trial of anti-depressants, where people have to take the medication daily for around 6 weeks. I'm also not an advocate of people doing a large dose of a psychedelic first time, in silicon valley 'micro-dosing' is a big thing, and it's done a lot in extreme sports too. Having all your senses just a bit more open and your response time a bit faster is an undeniable edge (I bet most of the UFC fighters do it). I have a good time discussing this with you too. Someone showed me this a few months ago, I found it hilarious: You keep telling me I should do it. Why haven't you? You are the one interested in the spiritual more than me.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 7:59:22 GMT
No, you probably won't. But, if you ever do some mushrooms, LSD or DMT (Which I understand is much more powerful than the previous two), there's a 70% chance you'll have an experience that will overall positively affect your life, in some way. Compare that to the 50% success rate we see for a full trial of anti-depressants, where people have to take the medication daily for around 6 weeks. I'm also not an advocate of people doing a large dose of a psychedelic first time, in silicon valley 'micro-dosing' is a big thing, and it's done a lot in extreme sports too. Having all your senses just a bit more open and your response time a bit faster is an undeniable edge (I bet most of the UFC fighters do it). I have a good time discussing this with you too. Someone showed me this a few months ago, I found it hilarious: You keep telling me I should do it. Why haven't you? You are the one interested in the spiritual more than me. I do a drop of LSD every couple of days. One quarter of a psychedelic dose. Feels like I just finished the best cup of coffee ever, for 8 hours. I've done much higher doses of LSD when I was younger. Probably done it 200-300 times overall. Mushrooms probably about 20-40 times. I use DMT as the example because it's the 'big one' and people access a completely different three dimensional space which is often described as 'More high definition and real than the real world as we perceive it'. It's something that's pretty much a complete mystery as far as science goes (so far), since people from vastly different cultural backgrounds seem to access the same space and report interactions with non-human 'entities' or 'machine elves'. Multidisciplinary teams are working to 'map out' the DMT realm like a new frontier in a science fiction movie. ..pretty interesting stuff IMO. Even if you never want to try it, books like this are fascinating.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 8:11:25 GMT
You keep telling me I should do it. Why haven't you? You are the one interested in the spiritual more than me. I do a drop of LSD every couple of days. One quarter of a psychedelic dose. Feels like I just finished the best cup of coffee ever, for 8 hours. I've done much higher doses of LSD when I was younger. Probably done it 200-300 times overall. Mushrooms probably about 20-40 times. I use DMT as the example because it's the 'big one' and people access a completely different three dimensional space which is often described as 'More high definition and real than the real world as we perceive it'. It's something that's pretty much a complete mystery as far as science goes (so far), since people from vastly different cultural backgrounds seem to access the same space and report interactions with non-human 'entities' or 'machine elves'. Multidisciplinary teams are working to 'map out' the DMT realm like a new frontier in a science fiction movie. ..pretty interesting stuff IMO. Even if you never want to try it, books like this are fascinating. I addressed that in my previous reply. As I said, my answer will ultimately be "I don't know" what I experienced, since I would say that about everything. There are just things I believe more strongly than others. I think there is definitely something deeper about reality than we are aware, but I don't tend to call that a "spiritual realm." I consider reality everything that exists, whether inside the universe or out. Spiritual I just consider a mind state. I believe that if no minds existed that the spiritual would then cease to exist in the same way that emotions and unicorns and God would cease to exist. Everything I know suggests to me that once the brain dies, the consciousness or "soul," also ceases to exist. Let me ask you this. Have you always been spiritual or did this just happen when you started doing LSD and shrooms? The reason I ask is because if you are already pre-disposed to believe these things then of course dropping acid, mushrooms or doing DMT is going to cause you to believe it is real more than someone who doesn't believe a spiritual world exists beforehand.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 27, 2021 8:25:36 GMT
I do a drop of LSD every couple of days. One quarter of a psychedelic dose. Feels like I just finished the best cup of coffee ever, for 8 hours. I've done much higher doses of LSD when I was younger. Probably done it 200-300 times overall. Mushrooms probably about 20-40 times. I use DMT as the example because it's the 'big one' and people access a completely different three dimensional space which is often described as 'More high definition and real than the real world as we perceive it'. It's something that's pretty much a complete mystery as far as science goes (so far), since people from vastly different cultural backgrounds seem to access the same space and report interactions with non-human 'entities' or 'machine elves'. Multidisciplinary teams are working to 'map out' the DMT realm like a new frontier in a science fiction movie. ..pretty interesting stuff IMO. Even if you never want to try it, books like this are fascinating. Let me ask you this. Have you always been spiritual or did this just happen when you started doing LSD and shrooms? The reason I ask is because if you are already pre-disposed to believe these things than of course dropping acid and doing DMT are going to cause you to believe it is real more than someone who doesn't believe a spiritual world exists. I was raised Roman Catholic, that made me an atheist for a long time. I did psychedelics in my early 20s, but I was still an atheist. The idea of a 'Big Poppa' God, like an old man with a beard, judging everything... seems silly. When my parents died in 2012 I started reading Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism books and found that the image of 'God' I got from Roman Catholicism was far from the only way to think about 'God'. I had an epiphany reading the Tao Te Ching in 2012, while on a beach in Maui, where I felt a strong connection to everything else that is hard to explain.. that has never left me. I don't attribute it to psychedelics but I do think they made me more open minded and 'primed me' for a less materialistic perspective.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 8:26:11 GMT
You keep telling me I should do it. Why haven't you? You are the one interested in the spiritual more than me. I do a drop of LSD every couple of days. One quarter of a psychedelic dose. Feels like I just finished the best cup of coffee ever, for 8 hours. I've done much higher doses of LSD when I was younger. Probably done it 200-300 times overall. Mushrooms probably about 20-40 times. I use DMT as the example because it's the 'big one' and people access a completely different three dimensional space which is often described as 'More high definition and real than the real world as we perceive it'. It's something that's pretty much a complete mystery as far as science goes (so far), since people from vastly different cultural backgrounds seem to access the same space and report interactions with non-human 'entities' or 'machine elves'. Multidisciplinary teams are working to 'map out' the DMT realm like a new frontier in a science fiction movie. ..pretty interesting stuff IMO. Even if you never want to try it, books like this are fascinating. There is also the fact that people born blind don't see anything while taking LSD. They just hear things. This is more evidence that it is all just related to the brain. I blind and deaf person from birth would likely only experience touch and taste or something.
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Post by moviemouth on May 27, 2021 8:29:52 GMT
Let me ask you this. Have you always been spiritual or did this just happen when you started doing LSD and shrooms? The reason I ask is because if you are already pre-disposed to believe these things than of course dropping acid and doing DMT are going to cause you to believe it is real more than someone who doesn't believe a spiritual world exists. I was raised Roman Catholic, that made me an atheist for a long time. I did psychedelics in my early 20s, but I was still an atheist. The idea of a 'Big Poppa' God, like an old man with a beard, judging everything... seems silly. When my parents died in 2012 I started reading Taoism, Buddhism and Hinduism books and found that the image of 'God' I got from Roman Catholicism was far from the only way to think about 'God'. I had an epiphany reading the Tao Te Ching in 2012, while on a beach in Maui, where I felt a strong connection to everything else that is hard to explain.. that has never left me. I don't attribute it to psychedelics but I do think they made me more open minded and 'primed me' for a less materialistic perspective. I am open minded, meaning that I don't flat out reject the possibility of anything. I find all of this stuff very fascinating though. If I didn't I wouldn't like so many movies about this sort of stuff. I was raised Catholic too, but lazily. Meaning my parents stopped pushing it on me when I turned 7 and I didn't care about any of it at the time. I believed the possibility of some of what the Bible being true until I was 25 or so and it gave me comfort. Now I actively disbelieve in all of it. I don't refer to anything about existence as God, because God has a specific meaning to me. For everything else I am more agnostic. Like what the true nature of everything is I have no fucking idea.
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