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Post by CrepedCrusader on May 27, 2021 17:05:34 GMT
I hear so many people saying that Lucasfilm should have fully planned out the ST before they started shooting. I personally disagree. First of all, the assertion that a trilogy SHOULD be planned out beforehand ignores the fact that a majority of trilogies in film history have not been planned out, with each movie being tackled individually or (as in the case of Back to the Future) the second and third movies being planned out after the success of the first movie. So, while am argument can be made for planning am entire trilogy from the start can be made, it's certainly not a "failure" if a studio decides not to.
Now, about the ST. I really don't care that the trilogy was planned out. However, I do believe that, if you are not going to plan it out, you should at least have an ironclad rule that each installment must recognize those that came before it and work within the frame that has been set up. As much as I love the ST, I do have one big complaint: both J.J. and Rian seemed to feel little need to keep to things that the other established. The first sign of this was when we saw from the trailers of TLJ that Kylo's facial scar was in a different spot. I remember not too many people caring, but that really bugged me. But then there were other, bigger things that Rian just didn't seem to care about sticking to. When J.J. came back for TRoS, he seemed to feel the same way. That helmet Kylo shattered in TLJ? He has it fixed. That Rose character who seemed poised to become a part of the main crew? Ah, we'll just sideline her.
So, while I don't think they should have planned the whole thing out ahead of time, I do wish J.J. and Rian had tried to build off of each other rather than pretend each other's movies didn't really count.
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Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
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Post by Jan El Señor on May 27, 2021 21:41:11 GMT
I do have one big complaint: both J.J. and Rian seemed to feel little need to keep to things that the established. The first sign of this was when we saw from the trailers of TLJ that Kylo's facial scar was in a different spot. I remember not too many people caring, but that really bugged me. But then there were other, bigger things that Rian just didn't seem to care about sticking to. Stop hating Star Wars, you toxic manbaby!
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Post by darkpast on May 28, 2021 4:19:49 GMT
REYLO WILL SAVE THE UNIVERSE
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 28, 2021 7:12:57 GMT
I hear so many people saying that Lucasfilm should have fully planned out the ST before they started shooting. I personally disagree. First of all, the assertion that a trilogy SHOULD be planned out beforehand ignores the fact that a majority of trilogies in film history have not been planned out, with each movie being tackled individually or (as in the case of Back to the Future) the second and third movies being planned out after the success of the first movie. So, while am argument can be made for planning am entire trilogy from the start can be made, it's certainly not a "failure" if a studio decides not to. Now, about the ST. I really don't care that the trilogy was planned out. However, I do believe that, if you are not going to plan it out, you should at least have an ironclad rule that each installment must recognize those that came before it and work within the frame that has been set up. As much as I love the ST, I do have one big complaint: both J.J. and Rian seemed to feel little need to keep to things that the established. The first sign of this was when we saw from the trailers of TLJ that Kylo's facial scar was in a different spot. I remember not too many people caring, but that really bugged me. But then there were other, bigger things that Rian just didn't seem to care about sticking to. When J.J. came back for TRoS, he seemer to feel the same way. That helmet Kylo shattered in TLJ? He has it fixed. That Rose character who seemed poised to become a part of the main crew? Ah, we'll just sideline her. So, while I don't think they should have planned the whole thing out ahead of time, I do wish J.J. and Rian had tried to build off of each other rather than pretend each other's movies didn't really count. That’s a short list of problems that came from not sticking to pre-established story and lore. I could right a chapter on it. And even JJ Abrams admits that not planning out/pre-planning the trilogy damaged it. news.yahoo.com/j-j-abrams-admits-obvious-191100249.html |
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on May 28, 2021 13:27:00 GMT
Wait... Hang on a minute... This isn't simply a post trolling anti Kathleen Kennedy / DT haters. What has happened 🤔.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 28, 2021 16:14:40 GMT
Wait... Hang on a minute... This isn't simply a post trolling anti Kathleen Kennedy / DT haters. What has happened 🤔. 
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 28, 2021 16:19:45 GMT
I must admit the zingers in this thread are hilarious. Admiral Ackbar approved!  |
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Post by mstreepsucks on Jul 10, 2021 17:12:01 GMT
I hear so many people saying that Lucasfilm should have fully planned out the ST before they started shooting. I personally disagree. First of all, the assertion that a trilogy SHOULD be planned out beforehand ignores the fact that a majority of trilogies in film history have not been planned out, with each movie being tackled individually or (as in the case of Back to the Future) the second and third movies being planned out after the success of the first movie. So, while am argument can be made for planning am entire trilogy from the start can be made, it's certainly not a "failure" if a studio decides not to. Now, about the ST. I really don't care that the trilogy was planned out. However, I do believe that, if you are not going to plan it out, you should at least have an ironclad rule that each installment must recognize those that came before it and work within the frame that has been set up. As much as I love the ST, I do have one big complaint: both J.J. and Rian seemed to feel little need to keep to things that the established. The first sign of this was when we saw from the trailers of TLJ that Kylo's facial scar was in a different spot. I remember not too many people caring, but that really bugged me. But then there were other, bigger things that Rian just didn't seem to care about sticking to. When J.J. came back for TRoS, he seemer to feel the same way. That helmet Kylo shattered in TLJ? He has it fixed. That Rose character who seemed poised to become a part of the main crew? Ah, we'll just sideline her. So, while I don't think they should have planned the whole thing out ahead of time, I do wish J.J. and Rian had tried to build off of each other rather than pretend each other's movies didn't really count. That’s a short list of problems that came from not sticking to pre-established story and lore. I could right a chapter on it. And even JJ Abrams admits that not planning out/pre-planning the trilogy damaged it. news.yahoo.com/j-j-abrams-admits-obvious-191100249.htmlWell ya he says that, but what does he know?
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 11, 2021 6:02:34 GMT
And even JJ Abrams admits that not planning out/pre-planning the trilogy damaged it. I like how Abrams can listen to criticism and accept where he made mistakes. Even before Star Wars, I remember him responding to the criticism he had overused lens flare and agreeing he had gone too far with it. We'll get no such response from the others that botched the DT. They're too arrogant.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Jul 11, 2021 12:42:19 GMT
Now, about the ST. I really don't care... My thoughts precisely! |
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 11, 2021 17:00:52 GMT
I like how Abrams can listen to criticism and accept where he made mistakes. Even before Star Wars, I remember him responding to the criticism he had overused lens flare and agreeing he had gone too far with it. Yes but he doesn't learn from it. He just says: "yes, I realize I made mistakes.."
Wouldn't it better to NOT make the mistakes? This is why a little more artistic prowess would be beneficial (although in the case of Star Wars, it would be hard to please enough people no matter who was making it).
He may know he's a hack but he doesn't help matters unless he refuses to spread his hackness in society.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 13, 2021 0:00:22 GMT
Well ya he says that, but what does he know? In this case he’s right. |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 13, 2021 6:32:00 GMT
Yes but he doesn't learn from it. He just says: "yes, I realize I made mistakes.."
Wouldn't it better to NOT make the mistakes? This is why a little more artistic prowess would be beneficial (although in the case of Star Wars, it would be hard to please enough people no matter who was making it).
He may know he's a hack but he doesn't help matters unless he refuses to spread his hackness in society.
Watch the Empire of Dreams documentary on the making of Star Wars. George Lucas made mistakes too. Everyone makes mistakes. Often we learn the most from mistakes, but first we have to accept that there was a mistake to begin with. If we just point fingers at others, and blame them, there's no room for growth.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 13, 2021 6:33:57 GMT
Watch the Empire of Dreams documentary on the making of Star Wars. George Lucas made mistakes too. Everyone makes mistakes. Often we learn the most from mistakes, but first we have to accept that there was a mistake to begin with. If we just point fingers at others, and blame them, there's no room for growth. But you have to be more critical of yourself in the process of making it. Lucas was not a good director and nobody pretended he was once it became obvious. And I don't think Lucas realizes the mistakes me made.
But Abrams is supposed to be the "fix it" man and he's not living up to that.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jul 14, 2021 3:35:51 GMT
Most trilogies don't actually know if they will be trilogies from the get-go. If the first succeeds, then they can get a sequel or two. If not, they won't. That's why they don't usually have a three-movie plan from day one.
The difference here is that there was never any doubt that a trilogy would happen. None at all.
And they didn't need to do some kind of step-by-step screenplay for each movie. Just a general outline of how each character would develop and where the general plot needed to lead from movie to movie. Then each individual writer/director can put their own flair to it.
Instead the exact opposite happened.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 15, 2021 19:31:43 GMT
But you have to be more critical of yourself in the process of making it. Lucas was not a good director and nobody pretended he was once it became obvious. And I don't think Lucas realizes the mistakes me made.
But Abrams is supposed to be the "fix it" man and he's not living up to that. He made mistakes going back to the making of the OT. Things didn't go as he planned with equipment breaking-down, not making their days, etc. He ended up going to the hospital due to stress/heart related issues. It's safe to say he did realize his mistakes. No, he isn't.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 15, 2021 19:42:15 GMT
He made mistakes going back to the making of the OT. Things didn't go as he planned with equipment breaking-down, not making their days, etc. He ended up going to the hospital due to stress/heart related issues. It's safe to say he did realize his mistakes. No, he isn't. I mean with ideas. He didn't think he made story mistakes.
Stallone regretted killing Apollo Creed--but Lucas--Gary Kurtz mentioned when they were making TESB Lucas would say "it's good enough" and Kurtz would have to tell him--no, it's not good enough--and they had to do more things.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Jul 17, 2021 21:13:36 GMT
I mean with ideas. He didn't think he made story mistakes.
Stallone regretted killing Apollo Creed--but Lucas--Gary Kurtz mentioned when they were making TESB Lucas would say "it's good enough" and Kurtz would have to tell him--no, it's not good enough--and they had to do more things. He actually regretted killing Obi-Wan off in Episode 4. Obi-Wan was originally going to be the last Jedi, but Lucas needed someone to teach Luke, and since he killed Obi-Wan, Yoda was created.
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Post by jammer81386 on Jul 18, 2021 1:56:23 GMT
I would say that an unplanned trilogy is not in and of itself the problem. But more so the fact that the the two directors wanted to take the film in different directions. The biggest example of this for me was Rey parentage. TFA hinted at a notable lineage, TLJ said she was a nobody, TROS then nixed that. And because of this back and forth I just stopped caring. The same can be said for a lot of other inconsistency in the trilogy.
I do agree with you that the ST needed some rules to keep the story consistent. Thus maybe the ST just needed a foundation, a set number of "facts" that the stories had to adhere to.
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