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Post by Skaathar on Jun 17, 2021 17:58:28 GMT
***WARNING: SLIGHT SPOILERS FOR LOKI!!!*** We first noticed this trend with Bucky. In CATWS, he's pretty much Cap's equal. He clearly dominates Black Widow and Falcon in a straight fight. Everyone's afraid of him like he's the freakin' terminator. Then in Civil War BP keeps getting the better of him even though BP seems roughly equal to Cap as well. He also gets completely stomped by Spiderman despite Cap being able to beat Spiderman. He's nowhere near as badass in CW but at least he still puts up a fight. In Infinity War he can't even run at the same fast pace as Cap and BP anymore. And by the time we get to TFATWS, Dora Milaje are pushing him around and he's struggling to beat up a bunch of punks simply because they're as strong as him... even though they have none of his training and experience. This meme pretty much sums up how far Bucky has fallen:  I thought this was going to be only an isolated trend. That it was simply a case of the MCU mishandling Bucky. But now they did the exact same thing with Loki. There was a time when Loki was completely bulletproof and able to shrug off a grenade to the face. This was a guy who could go toe to toe with Thor in a fight and was completely stomping Captain America. Where his reflexes were fast enough catch an arrow in mid air without looking and he could conjure up magical daggers from thin air. Where he normally talked with derision and resorted to unsubtle threats. This is the Loki I know:  Now he gets his own series and... well, I just don't recognize him. In the first episode he struggles to fight a human agent, and in the 2nd episode he gets his ass completely handed to him by a random human in a mall. He's portrayed as a constantly blabbering, quippy goof who could give Starlord a run for his money. I mean, I know Loki likes to talk, but he normally does so with a sinister Shakespearean class act. He's fully dependent on somebody else giving him knives, the extent of his magical powers is using it to dry himself up after standing under the rain, and he can't even break out of getting strangled by a zip tie. Don't get me wrong, I like the show, but they've turned Loki from a wolf into a pug.  As it currently stands, I'm dreading whatever version of the Punisher and Moonknight MCU/D+ is going to come up with. |
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Post by politicidal on Jun 18, 2021 15:52:51 GMT
"...I'm dreading whatever version of the Punisher and Moonknight MCU/D+ is going to come up with." Take your pick.   |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 18, 2021 16:34:29 GMT
TWS was a killing machine, Bucky isn't trying to kill everyone who gets in his way. I don't have a problem with him not being as effective a fighter when he's obviously holding back. The Loki thing is confusing, though. The TVA agents taking him down so easily didn't bother me until I saw how much difficulty they had with enchanted humans. And yeah the trucker at the WalMart stand-in was inexplicable. Unless they're trying to say the Asgardian enchantment imbues them with superhuman strength, it makes no sense at all.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 18, 2021 16:41:04 GMT
You also forgot to mention his use of telekinesis. He did it in The Dark World, and again during that fight in WalMart (I'm sorry, Roxxcart), yet only rarely does he use this incredible ability.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 18, 2021 16:48:30 GMT
TWS was a killing machine, Bucky isn't trying to kill everyone who gets in his way. I don't have a problem with him not being as effective a fighter when he's obviously holding back. The Loki thing is confusing, though. The TVA agents taking him down so easily didn't bother me until I saw how much difficulty they had with enchanted humans. And yeah the trucker at the WalMart stand-in was inexplicable. Unless they're trying to say the Asgardian enchantment imbues them with superhuman strength, it makes no sense at all. I do expect some degradation in skill between TWS and Bucky, but not something as drastic as how Spiderman completely, easily stomped him whereas Cap won against Spidey. That's such a huge disparity in skill that it's like a different person. Holding back shouldn't affect his overall speed and reflexes, just the lethatility of his blows. But then, at least Bucky has that excuse. Loki shouldn't have that excuse. This is the same Loki who had just finished trying to conquer Earth, so he should still fairly willing kill at this point. And yeah, the trucker in Walmart was just weird. Even if we consider that he was enhanced via magic, he was still using random store objects to smash and hurt Loki with... which doesn't make sense considering Loki can tank a grenade to the face.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 19, 2021 20:50:38 GMT
TWS was a killing machine, Bucky isn't trying to kill everyone who gets in his way. I don't have a problem with him not being as effective a fighter when he's obviously holding back. The Loki thing is confusing, though. The TVA agents taking him down so easily didn't bother me until I saw how much difficulty they had with enchanted humans. And yeah the trucker at the WalMart stand-in was inexplicable. Unless they're trying to say the Asgardian enchantment imbues them with superhuman strength, it makes no sense at all. I do expect some degradation in skill between TWS and Bucky, but not something as drastic as how Spiderman completely, easily stomped him whereas Cap won against Spidey. That's such a huge disparity in skill that it's like a different person. Holding back shouldn't affect his overall speed and reflexes, just the lethatility of his blows. But then, at least Bucky has that excuse. Loki shouldn't have that excuse. This is the same Loki who had just finished trying to conquer Earth, so he should still fairly willing kill at this point. And yeah, the trucker in Walmart was just weird. Even if we consider that he was enhanced via magic, he was still using random store objects to smash and hurt Loki with... which doesn't make sense considering Loki can tank a grenade to the face. Cap didn't outfight Spidey, he just neutralized him by being clever. I've argued that it was reckless and Cap could've killed him, he had no idea if Spider-Man could hold that much weight. Civil War has some great moments, but overall it's a very poorly written film. I'd also say Bucky's style of combat will be drastically different if he's just duking it out with someone as opposed to termination with extreme prejudice. There's really no explanation for the Loki stuff. The guy goes from literally being bulletproof to being rocked by a human fist or whatever's available in aisle five.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 19, 2021 21:50:50 GMT
I do expect some degradation in skill between TWS and Bucky, but not something as drastic as how Spiderman completely, easily stomped him whereas Cap won against Spidey. That's such a huge disparity in skill that it's like a different person. Holding back shouldn't affect his overall speed and reflexes, just the lethatility of his blows. But then, at least Bucky has that excuse. Loki shouldn't have that excuse. This is the same Loki who had just finished trying to conquer Earth, so he should still fairly willing kill at this point. And yeah, the trucker in Walmart was just weird. Even if we consider that he was enhanced via magic, he was still using random store objects to smash and hurt Loki with... which doesn't make sense considering Loki can tank a grenade to the face. Cap didn't outfight Spidey, he just neutralized him by being clever. If you're able to use your superior skill, intellect and experience to neutralize someone in combat, then you've outfought them. What Cap didn't do was overpower Spidey.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 19, 2021 22:51:06 GMT
Cap didn't outfight Spidey, he just neutralized him by being clever. If you're able to use your superior skill, intellect and experience to neutralize someone in combat, then you've outfought them. What Cap didn't do was overpower Spidey. Touche. I guess my point was it isn't that Cap showed he's a superior close quarters combatant or anything. He basically pulled the pin on a grenade and ran off. The fact that Bucky didn't think to do that (or didn't have the opportunity to do it) doesn't mean Cap was proven to be head and shoulders a better fighter than everyone else in that scenario.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 20:26:53 GMT
TWS was a killing machine, Bucky isn't trying to kill everyone who gets in his way. I don't have a problem with him not being as effective a fighter when he's obviously holding back. The Loki thing is confusing, though. The TVA agents taking him down so easily didn't bother me until I saw how much difficulty they had with enchanted humans. And yeah the trucker at the WalMart stand-in was inexplicable. Unless they're trying to say the Asgardian enchantment imbues them with superhuman strength, it makes no sense at all. Pretty much this
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2021 20:27:56 GMT
The second ep, Loki was more like himself. The bumbling fool in the pilot made no sense
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2021 16:11:59 GMT
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Post by mstreepsucks on Jun 23, 2021 16:25:03 GMT
What is TFATWS ?
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 23, 2021 17:06:57 GMT
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
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Post by Cat on Jun 25, 2021 19:24:34 GMT
I'm not up to date on Loki (it's okay though, I don't mind spoilers really). Regarding Bucky, I understand what you're saying. I personally never found him any less dangerous than he ever was. Mentally, he's safer to be around, and I agree he gets his ass kicked sometimes. But he's a dangerous man.
The more I watched him and Captain America spar in Winter Soldier, the clearer it is that a gunshot to the head is as standard a combat move as a punch to the jaw. He's so thoroughly trained (or brainwashed, or both) to be effective in combat that he's the type of character you could send into any situation. Characters like him have the upper hand over characters who're more powerful but also less mature. His barely existent moral compass is his ace in the hole against more powered individuals. He's one of those characters who, if all powers were rendered moot, his skill set would shoot him near the top because he knows how to fight.
At least that's my impression.
Is Loki alright? I've only seen the first episode.
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