lune7000
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@lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Jun 29, 2021 20:36:59 GMT
Watching Westerns I have noticed 3 broad plot types (with examples in parentheses):
1. The Duel: Good guy(s) defeats bad guy(s)- usually by bullet (High Noon). This is the most common plot type. 2. The Journey: a long, dangerous trip is successfully completed- unless it's the Donner Party (Searchers, Red River, Westward the Women) 3. The Defense: a homestead, town, fort or military position is successfully defended- unless it's Little Big Horn (Alamo)
later another, less common, plot was added
4. Doomed Resistance: Native Americans fight against the inevitable but loss is implied (Dances w/ Wolves, Geronimo) I have seen only four Western's that didn't follow one of these rules: The Ox Bow Incident (Fonda), The Big Country & the Gunfighter (both Peck) and No Name on the Bullet (Murphy)
Are there any other Westerns that break the rules? Please don't give spoilers, just titles- thanks
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Post by OldAussie on Jun 29, 2021 21:30:44 GMT
High Plains Drifter (1973) Jubal (1956) Ulzana's Raid (1972) Fort Apache (1948) Unforgiven (1992)
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Post by wmcclain on Jun 29, 2021 23:52:55 GMT
John Wayne becomes a pacifist: Angel and the Badman (1947), directed by James Edward Grant. A wounded outlaw is rescued by a Quaker family in spectacular Monument Valley. Turns out they like him and he likes them back, particularly the daughter. She's fallen in love and doesn't mind saying so. Can he adjust to their non-violent ways? We expect some backsliding from a notorious gunman, but this is an unusual western that takes pacifist convictions seriously In the end -- well, we're glad the watchful Marshal isn't a Quaker. A romance western with John Wayne in love. Still lots of fighting and action, as when our "hero" rustles some cattle rustlers. A mythically powerful scene I remember from my youth: the fevered, delirious gunman, restless until they put his revolver in his hand, which quiets him. Gail Russell, last seen in The Uninvited (1944) and Seven Men from Now (1956), is only 23 here. She died at age 36, cause: alcoholism. Such haunted, watchful eyes. They drive the whole picture. Director Grant was more usually a screenwriter, often working with John Wayne. Too much music in the score. Witness (1985) is a similar story. Olive Films Blu-ray, no subtitles. The film is in the public domain but this transfer is often pretty good, although it doesn't look like the source was cleaned very much.
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Post by phantomparticle on Jun 29, 2021 23:59:16 GMT
Monte Walsh (1970)
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Post by timshelboy on Jun 30, 2021 10:44:04 GMT
HOW THE WEST WAS WON broke the universally acknowledged Western "rule" that Debbie Reynolds musical numbers constitute less than 25% of the screen time.
On a similar theme how seiously can we take a "Western" where the most famous scene resembles a shampoo commercial
and if this one isn't subversive I don't know what is....
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Post by Prime etc. on Jun 30, 2021 16:13:30 GMT
THE GOLD OF SAM COOPER
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Post by politicidal on Jun 30, 2021 16:15:24 GMT
The Great Silence (1968) Hard to top that one.
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Post by mikef6 on Jul 1, 2021 1:39:47 GMT
timshelboy broke the thread with "Johnny Guitar" The best I can come up with are a few western spoof movies: Blazing Saddles Rustlers' Rhapsody Three Amigos!
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Post by jeffersoncody on Jul 1, 2021 5:01:31 GMT
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Post by manfromplanetx on Jul 1, 2021 6:54:49 GMT
Forty Guns (1957 was written and directed by Samuel Fuller and filmed in black-and-white CinemaScope. The Maverick director dismantled established rules throughout his artistic career. Forty Guns is a twilight western it is fascinating in its dialogue, full of double entendres and in its characters. Fuller's unique and original style here is electrified with sexual energy and psychotic violence accompanied with darting camerawork highlighting extraordinary angles and scenes ... Jessica Drummond: I'm not interested in *you*, Mr. Bonnell. It's your trademark.
[gestures at his gun, purring]
Jessica Drummond: May I feel it?
Griff Bonnell: Uh-uh.
Jessica Drummond: Just curious.
Griff Bonnell: It might go off in your face.
Jessica Drummond: I'll take a chance.
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Post by timshelboy on Jul 1, 2021 7:18:14 GMT
RED GARTERS, incidentally, was clearly the role model for the 33% of HOW THE WEST WAS WON dominated by Debbie singing, dancing, clowning etc
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Post by jeffersoncody on Jul 1, 2021 7:43:27 GMT
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Post by timshelboy on Jul 1, 2021 9:22:18 GMT
for those of you who can't miss A Debbie Reynolds Western
and this one blended the genre with horror very effectively
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Post by Captain Spencer on Jul 1, 2021 21:54:54 GMT
Well, pretty much any revisionist western.
Here are some examples:
The Wild Bunch Soldier Blue Unforgiven McCabe & Mrs. Miller The Culpepper Cattle Co.
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lune7000
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@lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Jul 1, 2021 23:07:37 GMT
Well, pretty much any revisionist western. Here are some examples: The Wild Bunch Soldier Blue Unforgiven McCabe & Mrs. Miller The Culpepper Cattle Co. Actually, I was more interested in a Western that breaks one of the rules I listed in the OP above- not just any rule. Such a western would either have 1. the bad guy winning over a good guy 2. a long journey that fails or 3. an attempted defense of a place that fails In a movie like the Unforgiven, there are no real good guys so it's hard to see it as a "bad guy wins" movie (though one could make the argument that Hackman really is a good guy for law abiding people).
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lune7000
Junior Member
@lune7000
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 678
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Post by lune7000 on Jul 1, 2021 23:13:33 GMT
I thought the best ending to How the West was Won would be the final shot being of the Hollywood wrap up party after making the movie w/ all the stars in formal wear- Stewart, Wayne, Reynolds, etc. Since Hollywood is furthest west it would be a perfect ending and the ultimate in self-referencing.
And anyone who objects to Debbie Reynolds singing simply doesn't know the true history of winning the West- singers cleared out more people than smallpox and the US cavalry combined
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 1, 2021 23:27:04 GMT
The Valley of Gwangi breaks the rules unless we consider the ending a kind of Doomed Resistance to a 65-million-year long delayed extinction theme.
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Post by phantomparticle on Jul 2, 2021 3:07:55 GMT
That brings to mind The Beast of Hollow Mountain and The Seven Faces of Dr. Lao. The combination of disparate genres doesn't always work, particularly the former. Tony Randall should have been nominated for an Oscar as Dr. Lao.
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Post by mikef6 on Jul 4, 2021 16:31:01 GMT
How could I have possibly forgotten until now those two cheapie horrors of the ‘60s:
Billy The Kid vs. Dracula (1966), directed by William “One-shot” Beaudine. Database user rating: 3.7
Jesse James Meets Frankenstein’s Daughter, again 1966 from Beaudine. User rating: 3.3
Also, the western remake of the 1948 film noir classic “Kiss Of Death”
The Fiend Who Walked The West (1958, Gordon Douglas). Robert Evens takes the Richard Widmark role and, as an actor, shows why he switched to producing (The Godfather I & II, Chinatown, Marathon Man).
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Post by jeffersoncody on Jul 5, 2021 7:38:58 GMT
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