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Post by drystyx on Jul 6, 2021 16:38:09 GMT
Evolution is a theory, not a fact. I believe in it, because I believe in Magic, and it takes Magic for it to be a fact.
Now, "natural selection" is a fact, because it is a fact by its own definition.
Evolution is a simple process with simple organisms. Mutations have no problem generating new organisms from single cell organisms or any organism that doesn't perform Meiosis to breed.
Meiosis present s a pitfall, however.
The narrow minded alleged establishment needs to preach "Evolution" in order to keep a materialistic culture in control. People feel safe when they think they have all the answers, especially when the answers depend upon "Magic".
Take human beings. The idea that humans evolved is ludicrous for a number of reasons, but the ignorant masses feel safe and secure in the comfort zone, and whine when you bring up the reasons. They can't dispute the reasons it doesn't work, so they scream and holler and babble incoherently.
You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. This will be proven by the jealousy of the "ignorant masses" who will whine about my post, and babble incoherently.
Now, humans are the only primate with 46 chromosomes. How could that come to be?
A mutation. Okay, so we have the mutation during Meiosis to produce the human with 46 chromosomes, who will then deliver 23 to an egg, or receive 23 from a sperm.
Oops. There has to be a second human who has this same exact mutation.
Good. We have the clone, the identical twin. That's the only way of course.
Except the identical twin is the same sex as the other one.
Oops.
So, some creature magically makes them a different sex. Genesis enthusiasts will love this idea, because then it explains why Eve was taken from Adam's rib. Okay, so we have "Magic".
So, no matter how you slice it, you need "Magic" to create the human race.
There are other reasons why supernatural help is needed for humans to become dominant. Humans are among the weakest and least resourceful of species if not for tools, and can openers and wheels and chariots didn't just magically appear for humans, unless some supernatural force made them appear. Humans are pathetic, slow, and have worse sensory perception than almost any other animal. The chimp beast the human to the fig on a tree and grape on a vine. The tiger beats the human to the squirrel.
One could make a case that the human hand made the human better adapted at getting the turtle, but that's a reach.
So, even there, supernatural help had to exist in order to make prehistoric humans have a chance to compete.
And that's fair. Since we have proven that "Magic", in other words "supernatural interference" is needed, we can accept the theory of Evolution as part of that "Magic".
Of course it's still a theory. A good one, but a theory. Only a fool thinks he knows how Magic works.
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dzrider
Freshman
@dzrider
Posts: 86
Likes: 51
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Post by dzrider on Jul 6, 2021 18:57:20 GMT
Evolution is a theory, not a fact. I believe in it, because I believe in Magic, and it takes Magic for it to be a fact. Now, "natural selection" is a fact, because it is a fact by its own definition. Evolution is a simple process with simple organisms. Mutations have no problem generating new organisms from single cell organisms or any organism that doesn't perform Meiosis to breed. Meiosis present s a pitfall, however. The narrow minded alleged establishment needs to preach "Evolution" in order to keep a materialistic culture in control. People feel safe when they think they have all the answers, especially when the answers depend upon "Magic". Take human beings. The idea that humans evolved is ludicrous for a number of reasons, but the ignorant masses feel safe and secure in the comfort zone, and whine when you bring up the reasons. They can't dispute the reasons it doesn't work, so they scream and holler and babble incoherently. You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. This will be proven by the jealousy of the "ignorant masses" who will whine about my post, and babble incoherently. Now, humans are the only primate with 46 chromosomes. How could that come to be? A mutation. Okay, so we have the mutation during Meiosis to produce the human with 46 chromosomes, who will then deliver 23 to an egg, or receive 23 from a sperm. Oops. There has to be a second human who has this same exact mutation. Good. We have the clone, the identical twin. That's the only way of course. Except the identical twin is the same sex as the other one. Oops. So, some creature magically makes them a different sex. Genesis enthusiasts will love this idea, because then it explains why Eve was taken from Adam's rib. Okay, so we have "Magic". So, no matter how you slice it, you need "Magic" to create the human race. There are other reasons why supernatural help is needed for humans to become dominant. Humans are among the weakest and least resourceful of species if not for tools, and can openers and wheels and chariots didn't just magically appear for humans, unless some supernatural force made them appear. Humans are pathetic, slow, and have worse sensory perception than almost any other animal. The chimp beast the human to the fig on a tree and grape on a vine. The tiger beats the human to the squirrel. One could make a case that the human hand made the human better adapted at getting the turtle, but that's a reach. So, even there, supernatural help had to exist in order to make prehistoric humans have a chance to compete. And that's fair. Since we have proven that "Magic", in other words "supernatural interference" is needed, we can accept the theory of Evolution as part of that "Magic". Of course it's still a theory. A good one, but a theory. Only a fool thinks he knows how Magic works. So, what you're saying here is, you have no understanding of how evolution actually works.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 6, 2021 19:16:36 GMT
Evolution is a theory, not a fact. I believe in it, because I believe in Magic, and it takes Magic for it to be a fact. Now, "natural selection" is a fact, because it is a fact by its own definition. Evolution is a simple process with simple organisms. Mutations have no problem generating new organisms from single cell organisms or any organism that doesn't perform Meiosis to breed. Meiosis present s a pitfall, however. The narrow minded alleged establishment needs to preach "Evolution" in order to keep a materialistic culture in control. People feel safe when they think they have all the answers, especially when the answers depend upon "Magic". Take human beings. The idea that humans evolved is ludicrous for a number of reasons, but the ignorant masses feel safe and secure in the comfort zone, and whine when you bring up the reasons. They can't dispute the reasons it doesn't work, so they scream and holler and babble incoherently. You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. This will be proven by the jealousy of the "ignorant masses" who will whine about my post, and babble incoherently. Now, humans are the only primate with 46 chromosomes. How could that come to be? A mutation. Okay, so we have the mutation during Meiosis to produce the human with 46 chromosomes, who will then deliver 23 to an egg, or receive 23 from a sperm. Oops. There has to be a second human who has this same exact mutation. Good. We have the clone, the identical twin. That's the only way of course. Except the identical twin is the same sex as the other one. Oops. So, some creature magically makes them a different sex. Genesis enthusiasts will love this idea, because then it explains why Eve was taken from Adam's rib. Okay, so we have "Magic". So, no matter how you slice it, you need "Magic" to create the human race. There are other reasons why supernatural help is needed for humans to become dominant. Humans are among the weakest and least resourceful of species if not for tools, and can openers and wheels and chariots didn't just magically appear for humans, unless some supernatural force made them appear. Humans are pathetic, slow, and have worse sensory perception than almost any other animal. The chimp beast the human to the fig on a tree and grape on a vine. The tiger beats the human to the squirrel. One could make a case that the human hand made the human better adapted at getting the turtle, but that's a reach. So, even there, supernatural help had to exist in order to make prehistoric humans have a chance to compete. And that's fair. Since we have proven that "Magic", in other words "supernatural interference" is needed, we can accept the theory of Evolution as part of that "Magic". Of course it's still a theory. A good one, but a theory. Only a fool thinks he knows how Magic works. So, what you're saying here is, you have no understanding of how evolution actually works. You can't make this stuff up, folks. I forecast this perfectly. Even after reading the facts and reading that some of the ignorant masses would get jealous and babble, some are illiterate enough to prove my point so perfectly. I humbly thank this poor fool for illustrating my point. Believe me, he isn't some sock puppet I invented just to prove my point. He's really that uneducated. I know how Evolution works. I'm sorry d z rider doesn't know how it works. Of course, I've aced college Science courses, without the aid of being in the mob. D Z isn't able to "honestly" say that.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jul 6, 2021 19:27:38 GMT
So, what you're saying here is, you have no understanding of how evolution actually works. You can't make this stuff up, folks. I forecast this perfectly. Even after reading the facts and reading that some of the ignorant masses would get jealous and babble, some are illiterate enough to prove my point so perfectly. I humbly thank this poor fool for illustrating my point. Believe me, he isn't some sock puppet I invented just to prove my point. He's really that uneducated. I know how Evolution works. I'm sorry d z rider doesn't know how it works. Of course, I've aced college Science courses, without the aid of being in the mob. D Z isn't able to "honestly" say that. Yes you forecast it perfectly, but that does not change the fact that you are wrong.
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Post by maya55555 on Jul 6, 2021 23:36:40 GMT
Take human beings. The idea that humans evolved is ludicrous for a number of reasons, but the ignorant masses feel safe and secure in the comfort zone, and whine when you bring up the reasons. They can't dispute the reasons it doesn't work, so they scream and holler and babble incoherently.
Just where are all these human beings?  Find one and look into it!
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Post by Admin on Jul 6, 2021 23:44:55 GMT
You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. Cool. Maybe you can explain to these maroons how something can survive the conditions long enough to evolve into something that can survive the conditions.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 7, 2021 1:12:14 GMT
You can't make this stuff up, folks. I forecast this perfectly. Even after reading the facts and reading that some of the ignorant masses would get jealous and babble, some are illiterate enough to prove my point so perfectly. I humbly thank this poor fool for illustrating my point. Believe me, he isn't some sock puppet I invented just to prove my point. He's really that uneducated. I know how Evolution works. I'm sorry d z rider doesn't know how it works. Of course, I've aced college Science courses, without the aid of being in the mob. D Z isn't able to "honestly" say that. Yes you forecast it perfectly, but that does not change the fact that you are wrong. That's the difference between myself, looking with no expectations and no prejudice, and you and the other poster, because you two just think something is true because you want it to be true. I have no agenda. It is what it is. The first rule of Science is "Objectivity", and not expecting any outcome. We see modern alleged scientists admit in print that their goal was to prove theories. Easy to do when you just toss out anything you don't like, and save what you're looking for. That's the modern Western culture way. I don't "want" anything to be true. I just tell it like it is. I know that's scary, to delve honestly, but if one doesn't do that, one is doomed to dwell in the ignorance that so many of you dwell in. I'm sure it makes you all happy, but I have a thirst for knowledge that you'll never understand. I can't be happy to be one of you "ignorant masses". No offense.
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dzrider
Freshman
@dzrider
Posts: 86
Likes: 51
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Post by dzrider on Jul 7, 2021 3:08:39 GMT
You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. Cool. Maybe you can explain to these maroons how something can survive the conditions long enough to evolve into something that can survive the conditions. Allow me...
Let's say you have a group of organisms existing in a relatively benign environment. We know that, due to various causes, mutations happen. Some small percentage of this population may develop an immunity to a
particular toxin, or virus, or environmental condition, or what have you. As long as the environment remains stable, these mutations offer no special competitive advantage. Now, introduce some external factor, say a
virus or an extreme weather event. The organisms in the population with the mutations that offer protection from these factors now have an advantage over those that don't, so as the unprotected organisms die out, the
mutation that confers the advantage will become more and more prevalent in the population. This is a quick and dirty description of how natural selection works, and how "something can survive the conditions long
enough to evolve into something that can survive the conditions."
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Post by Admin on Jul 7, 2021 3:31:59 GMT
Cool. Maybe you can explain to these maroons how something can survive the conditions long enough to evolve into something that can survive the conditions. Allow me... Let's say you have a group of organisms existing in a relatively benign environment. We know that, due to various causes, mutations happen. Some small percentage of this population may develop an immunity to a
particular toxin, or virus, or environmental condition, or what have you. As long as the environment remains stable, these mutations offer no special competitive advantage. Now, introduce some external factor, say a
virus or an extreme weather event. The organisms in the population with the mutations that offer protection from these factors now have an advantage over those that don't, so as the unprotected organisms die out, the
mutation that confers the advantage will become more and more prevalent in the population. This is a quick and dirty description of how natural selection works, and how "something can survive the conditions long
enough to evolve into something that can survive the conditions."
Well, that's disappointing. I was hoping for something more like polar bears living in igloos for millions of years.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 7, 2021 4:42:43 GMT
That's the difference between myself, looking with no expectations and no prejudice, and you and the other poster, because you two just think something is true because you want it to be true. I have no agenda. It is what it is. The first rule of Science is "Objectivity", and not expecting any outcome. We see modern alleged scientists admit in print that their goal was to prove theories. Easy to do when you just toss out anything you don't like, and save what you're looking for. That's the modern Western culture way. I don't "want" anything to be true. I just tell it like it is. I know that's scary, to delve honestly, but if one doesn't do that, one is doomed to dwell in the ignorance that so many of you dwell in. I'm sure it makes you all happy, but I have a thirst for knowledge that you'll never understand. I can't be happy to be one of you "ignorant masses". No offense. Well, you seem pretty prejudiced considering how many insults you pepper throughout your thesis. I don't know why you have to attack anyone to state your case. If you can't understand how evolution works, then don't blame me or Feo. I'm not sure who said what to you, but someone must've chapped you ass to make this thread. No one has claimed evolution isn't a theory. But there are plenty of things we accept in our lives that is still theory. Gravity is a still a theory. Theology and religion is made up of solely of theories about God. There are no facts about him. Atheism is a theory too. Democracy, capitalism, war, peace, etc are also a theories. Even love is a theory. We don't know why humans love each other. From Dr Francis Collins (who is a Christian by the way): Meiosis. What a funny word with so many vowels. Well, this is a really important part of human biology and the biology of many other organisms that go through sexual reproduction. Basically, here's the problem: You've got a certain number of chromosomes; we humans have 46. But a child who's going to get half of their inheritance from their mother and father, they can't get 46 from both of them--that would be 92. So there has to be a way to take those paired chromosomes and break them apart in order to make gametes; sperm and eggs. That's what meiosis is all about. It's taking that complete set and breaking it down to a so-called haploid set and also providing the opportunity for recombination to occur to sort of scramble the copies and produce new kinds of outcomes, which is critical for the diversity of a species. Meiosis is one of those things that's hard to really get your mind around. There's meiosis 1, there's meiosis 2...you have to learn where the recombination occurs, but it is a really exciting part of human biology.Anyway, many mutations have occurred over the 3 to 8 millions years since an ape-like creature probably began a line of hominids that would over time evolve into homo sapiens. This chain of DNA being mutated generation after generation can be stretched all the way back to the first single-celled organisms. And these organisms themselves, just like you and I, are made up of the very atoms that emerged from the Big Bang. No new particles have form since as far as we know. Think about when the human hand evolved in conjunction with tool use. The ape-guy with a hand that could grasp a stone more securely than his troop mates had the upper hand (pun) in throwing the stone higher to knock out fruit or take down a rabbit. He got more food to feed his offspring. And once hominids figured out the sharp edges of stones cut meat, then blast off, the massive amounts of protein facilitated brain grow; over time with softer food, the ape-people no longer needed huge bellies or massive jaws to chew and digest as much plant matter. Belly and jaw DNA that codes our tissue make up was not lost, but reconstituted into the brain. This is all trackable by mapping the human genome which is now pretty much complete. Recently, science is seeing evidence of human DNA being mutated due to environmental factors in mature creature and those mutations along with mutated, beneficial adaptations can be passed on to future off-spring. This probably accounts for Rh negative humans who generally have an extra vertebra. And by the way, atheism has nothing to do with evolution. My quote: So you keep with the insults. I insulted no one. Absolutely no one. I gave fair warning, and you insulted yourselves, and now you show yourself to be totally illiterate, because you can't even read what I wrote. Just remember that you began the mud slinging. I did not name a single person in my original post. You volunteered to start the emotional outbursts. I'm just replying in the only way you can understand. You don't even know how Meiosis works. You have proven yourself a totally uneducated person making up whatever you want as you go along. Your quote: You just quoted someone who agreed EXACTLY with what I said. And you fail to recognize that. Do you not even know how to read? I'm sorry, but you immediately jumped to babbling incoherently, and ignoring the fact that there are 23 chromosomes from each donor in Meiosis when you make this rambling statement: You just MAGICALLY ignore the number of chromosomes and bury your head in the sand and say "oh 3 to 8 million years" magically does something to the number of chromosomes. Rambling incoherently about the atoms from the Big Bang just shows you are flailing away, not knowing what you're talking about, since it is totally irrelevant. You just reach for words and catch phrases that make you feel comfortable. I'm sorry, but you just proved it. I didn't tell you to do more epic failing. I don't want you to fail. I'm ready to see something intelligent, and you fail to do it when you state in the next statement: Your quote: Which doesn't at all explain how the human begins in an environment that doesn't have ready made tools. You just MAGICALLY have all this ready, along with the: A cut meat (you must think you're making a point, but you don't. B blast off (what in the world are you rambling about there? Anyone who says he understands that is flat out lying) C brain grown D the "trackable DNA" you're so proud of just shows how uneducated you are. There are not that many genetic codes that combine in useful ways for any organism. which means that all genetic codes are similar between all organisms as described in the link I show next, where even yeast is similar to human DNA. www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/05/21/408322187/you-and-yeast-have-more-in-common-than-you-might-think[/rul]Oops, sorry that you are unaware of Reality. And of the fact that the research of your very idols proves you don't understand your own information. This obviously not only doesn't help, but only hurts the theory of Evolution, because it means most combinations wind up as useless mush, so the similarities are definitely going to be the only ones if there is no Evolution. That's called "NATURAL SELECTION" which I pointed out already was a definitive fact. You're claim that the mush of useless genetic combinations magically makes useful combinations from mush is proven wrong in laboratory tests. Just like trying to make a pineapple upside down cake without pineapple or sugar, but trying to use plastic and rubber as the ingredients instead. Your ludicrous claim that a cook can make a pineapple upside down cake out of plastic and rubber instead of pineapple and sugar is totally insane. This link shows that only certain combinations can work to create anything. Maybe the way you're wishing for is the way it happened, but the fact remains that too many pieces of Magic are involved, as you just proved yourself. Your inability to understand your own information proves you are delusional, praying for whatever fantasy you want to be true. Well, tap your heels together and be happy. Me, I prefer to look at it with an open mind and not read something that isn't there into reality. I'm just stating the reality. I have no special interest in any outcome. I don't have any "theory" to prove. I'd like your theory to be proven, but all you do is the exact opposite. You have totally failed to support any of your delusions, and I'm sorry. You can get a billion people to agree that nonsense makes sense, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. It just means a billion people are so afraid of the unknown that they agree on the security of mass delusion. T Bottom line is that you continue to ignore the reality of Meiosis in your rambling. There's no way to make sense out of what you said. Ergo, the inevitable:
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Post by drystyx on Jul 7, 2021 5:18:31 GMT
That you’re having serious doubts about your faith again is your problem. Sober up. Jerk. I have zero faith. I rely on logic and intellect. I don't recommend that, because God only rewards the faithful, and those of us who did actual research and read the most objective books of History don't get to bathe in blessings like you silly wipers of other people's bottoms. I am mature, and I fart in your general direction.
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Post by maya55555 on Jul 7, 2021 19:27:09 GMT
drystyx,
BRAVO!!!
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Post by general313 on Jul 8, 2021 1:02:53 GMT
Evolution is a theory, not a fact. I believe in it, because I believe in Magic, and it takes Magic for it to be a fact. Now, "natural selection" is a fact, because it is a fact by its own definition. Evolution is a simple process with simple organisms. Mutations have no problem generating new organisms from single cell organisms or any organism that doesn't perform Meiosis to breed. Meiosis present s a pitfall, however. The narrow minded alleged establishment needs to preach "Evolution" in order to keep a materialistic culture in control. People feel safe when they think they have all the answers, especially when the answers depend upon "Magic". Take human beings. The idea that humans evolved is ludicrous for a number of reasons, but the ignorant masses feel safe and secure in the comfort zone, and whine when you bring up the reasons. They can't dispute the reasons it doesn't work, so they scream and holler and babble incoherently. You all know I'm one of the few reasonable and educated people on this board. This will be proven by the jealousy of the "ignorant masses" who will whine about my post, and babble incoherently. Now, humans are the only primate with 46 chromosomes. How could that come to be? A mutation. Okay, so we have the mutation during Meiosis to produce the human with 46 chromosomes, who will then deliver 23 to an egg, or receive 23 from a sperm. Oops. There has to be a second human who has this same exact mutation. Good. We have the clone, the identical twin. That's the only way of course. Except the identical twin is the same sex as the other one. Oops. So, some creature magically makes them a different sex. Genesis enthusiasts will love this idea, because then it explains why Eve was taken from Adam's rib. Okay, so we have "Magic". So, no matter how you slice it, you need "Magic" to create the human race. There are other reasons why supernatural help is needed for humans to become dominant. Humans are among the weakest and least resourceful of species if not for tools, and can openers and wheels and chariots didn't just magically appear for humans, unless some supernatural force made them appear. Humans are pathetic, slow, and have worse sensory perception than almost any other animal. The chimp beast the human to the fig on a tree and grape on a vine. The tiger beats the human to the squirrel. One could make a case that the human hand made the human better adapted at getting the turtle, but that's a reach. So, even there, supernatural help had to exist in order to make prehistoric humans have a chance to compete. And that's fair. Since we have proven that "Magic", in other words "supernatural interference" is needed, we can accept the theory of Evolution as part of that "Magic". Of course it's still a theory. A good one, but a theory. Only a fool thinks he knows how Magic works. In the past magic has invariably given way to science. Elephants and turtles supporting the earth from falling down has been replaced by an understanding of gravity and a spherical earth. Vitalism and treating organic chemistry as magic has given way to the modern understanding that organic chemistry works the same as inorganic chemistry. If one bothers to study the evidence for evolution in all its forms, one can see the same holds for it. Whenever someone says a god of the gaps is needed, in time he keeps being confined to a smaller and smaller niche. I expect that magic will continue to be replaced with science in the future.
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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2021 13:44:20 GMT
Then again, maybe a mutation that creates a different number of chromosomes in an individual doesn't make it impossible for that individual to breed and produce fertile offspring with the other individuals (with the original number of chromosomes) in a population...so, as long as that different number of chromosomes is neutral to survival, that trait spreads via genetic drift. And eventually some branch population of those thus endowed individuals develop some other beneficial mutation and end up surviving and becoming the new species. But maybe assuming that possibility requires faith and I know it's hard for some people to have faith.
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Post by general313 on Jul 8, 2021 14:38:36 GMT
Then again, maybe a mutation that creates a different number of chromosomes in an individual doesn't make it impossible for that individual to breed and produce fertile offspring with the other individuals (with the original number of chromosomes) in a population...so, as long as that different number of chromosomes is neutral to survival, that trait spreads via genetic drift. And eventually some branch population of those thus endowed individuals develop some other beneficial mutation and end up surviving and becoming the new species. But maybe assuming that possibility requires faith and I know it's hard for some people to have faith.
Why assume when there are observable cases? No faith required!
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Post by drystyx on Jul 8, 2021 15:37:36 GMT
Then again, maybe a mutation that creates a different number of chromosomes in an individual doesn't make it impossible for that individual to breed and produce fertile offspring with the other individuals (with the original number of chromosomes) in a population...so, as long as that different number of chromosomes is neutral to survival, that trait spreads via genetic drift. And eventually some branch population of those thus endowed individuals develop some other beneficial mutation and end up surviving and becoming the new species. But maybe assuming that possibility requires faith and I know it's hard for some people to have faith.
Thoughtful response deserves an answer. The odds go into astronomical figures of astronomical figures of astronomical figures of astronomical figures. This doesn't even count the mutation. The mutation will happen. First astronomical: Since it would take an identical twin to have a likewise mutation, it couldn't be of the other sex, so therefore the mutant we call a human would have to breed with another primate. It would have to survive long enough to breed in an environment without cans and can openers against primates that see, smell, hear, move, climb, wrestle stronger, faster, and better. Second astronomical: The 23 chromosomes would have to combine well enough with the other primate to actually produce offspring that survive long enough to breed Third astronomical: This offspring would have to be fertile in a situation that causes sterility in all but an astronomically microscopic percentage of instances Fourth astronomical: There would eventually have to be a third generation that finds the recessive 23 chromosome split available with two separate sex individuals. This does, however, beat the odds of two exact duplicate mutations in the exact same location on Earth in the exact same time frame, given a window of about a millionth of the Earth and a millionth of time frame. That would be an insurmountable fifth astronomical, but I'll grant that if enough offspring could be produced, you only have to pass through four astronomical figures. What makes this fourth astronomical so astronomical is that you still have to beat the odds of sterility. Fact is that there is not going to be any "beneficial" mutation when we get to humans until tools are quite sophisticated enough to give humans something even close to a fair chance against a physically superior species. Even with the knowledge of tools we have today, if you were stranded on an island with an ape of equal maturity, you'd have to be a specially trained survival expert to manufacture the correct tools to beat the ape to any food supply. You'd be at his mercy and begging for scraps. Add to this what is a fifth disadvantage, though not an astronomical one. Humans are the very worst team players in the mammal world, and the only mammals I know of that actually seek to destroy the strongest and fittest of their tribe out of jealousy, making for inferior genes through the ages. Humans are the very worst judges of "unfit" physical characteristics. "Team play" is mythical in the human race. The number of nations and turmoil within nations should prove that, but if that's not enough, take the billions of dollars spent each year by companies to train teamwork among employees, and EACH YEAR the companies have to retrain the same employees, because it just doesn't happen naturally among humans.
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Post by general313 on Jul 8, 2021 16:52:00 GMT
Then again, maybe a mutation that creates a different number of chromosomes in an individual doesn't make it impossible for that individual to breed and produce fertile offspring with the other individuals (with the original number of chromosomes) in a population...so, as long as that different number of chromosomes is neutral to survival, that trait spreads via genetic drift. And eventually some branch population of those thus endowed individuals develop some other beneficial mutation and end up surviving and becoming the new species. But maybe assuming that possibility requires faith and I know it's hard for some people to have faith.
First astronomical: Since it would take an identical twin to have a likewise mutation, it couldn't be of the other sex, so therefore the mutant we call a human would have to breed with another primate. Your first assumption is demonstrably wrong. From the link I made above... In case it needs mentioning, people with Down's syndrome have an extra chromosome for a total of 47 chromosomes. They can produce offspring with a normal person, thus invalidating your contention that chromosomes need to be an exact match to produce offspring.
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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2021 17:17:23 GMT
Then again, maybe a mutation that creates a different number of chromosomes in an individual doesn't make it impossible for that individual to breed and produce fertile offspring with the other individuals (with the original number of chromosomes) in a population...so, as long as that different number of chromosomes is neutral to survival, that trait spreads via genetic drift. And eventually some branch population of those thus endowed individuals develop some other beneficial mutation and end up surviving and becoming the new species. But maybe assuming that possibility requires faith and I know it's hard for some people to have faith.
Why assume when there are observable cases? No faith required! Well...I don't know if those cases demonstrate that these individuals with different numbers of chromosomes not only produce viable offspring, but go on to become new species and that it happens regularly enough that it produced the myriad of species we observe. Are there any cases like that? I would be happy to know about them. I have faith that it must have happened because any other explanation is even more outlandish and unbelievable.
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Post by general313 on Jul 8, 2021 17:27:19 GMT
Well...I don't know if those cases demonstrate that these individuals with different numbers of chromosomes not only produce viable offspring, but go on to become new species and that it happens regularly enough that it produced the myriad of species we observe. Are there any cases like that? I would be happy to know about them. I have faith that it must have happened because any other explanation is even more outlandish and unbelievable. It doesn't demonstrate viable offspring with eventual new species per se, but it is sufficient to undermine the OP's assumption that chromosomes must match exactly to produce offspring.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 8, 2021 17:37:58 GMT
First astronomical: Since it would take an identical twin to have a likewise mutation, it couldn't be of the other sex, so therefore the mutant we call a human would have to breed with another primate. Your first assumption is demonstrably wrong. From the link I made above... In case it needs mentioning, people with Down's syndrome have an extra chromosome for a total of 47 chromosomes. They can produce offspring with a normal person, thus invalidating your contention that chromosomes need to be an exact match to produce offspring. You've proved nothing. Your link doesn't show anything about other primates. The difficulty itself with offspring from 47 and 46 itself only supports that there is "astronomical" difficulty with 48, because halving each number does come up with a poor mix that doesn't work. The sterility problems do exist, despite the attempts of frauds to falsify the records. Even when the astronomical does occur, an astronomical I didn't even mention in order to spare your sensitivities goes in effect. As in this instance, involving civilized humans with the intent of preserving and aiding life, anything resembling a cross between human and chimp, is killed: www.thesun.co.uk/news/5447151/human-chimp-hybrid-humanzee-born-1920s/Not to mention nearly all such circus attractions are actual hoaxes by the many P T Barnum wanna be hucksters and con artists. It's only amazing that we don't have more such hoaxes. The study you cite is "wishful thinking" and just shows again there is no objectivity. You are so desperate that you jump on the first chance to buy the Eiffel Tower from anyone standing on a sidewalk. Ergo, you fail. Sorry to bust your bubble. I realize it hurts your feelings to have your world and hopes turned upside down and your faith shaken, but that's what Reality is.
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