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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 16:15:07 GMT
I didn't enjoy it. From the beginning the over-the-top but silly fight scenes had me rolling my eyes. Widow gets slammed face first into a wall or pillar but is completely fine; gets thrown off a roof but is completely fine; sister the same; etc. etc. over and over. She isn't a super soldier as far as I'm aware and neither is her sister so what the heck? I know that a huge suspension of disbelief is necessary to watch a female throw men about as though they weigh nothing and I'm (kind of) okay with that, but this was too much. I stopped watching about half way through as I just wasn't interested enough in the story to overlook all the silliness. This a make-believe fantasy superhero movie Morgana. You are taking things way too seriously. It's supposed to be entertainment. Not a documentary on the physics of violence. I have to agree with Morgana here. While these shows are indeed fiction, they still need to follow some kind of in-universe laws in order for them to not end up being completely looney toons. Black Widow in this universe is human. And while we've seen humans in the MCU accomplish things real humans would never be able to do, they were never this blatantly superhuman. The feats that Black Widow accomplished in this movie is inconsistent with how she'd been depicted in the past as well as how other human fighters in the MCU had been depicted in the past. It's bad writing/directing no matter how you look at it.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 16:19:50 GMT
This a make-believe fantasy superhero movie Morgana. You are taking things way too seriously. It's supposed to be entertainment. Not a documentary on the physics of violence. I have to agree with Morgana here. While these shows are indeed fiction, they still need to follow some kind of in-universe laws in order for them to not end up being completely looney toons. Black Widow in this universe is human. And while we've seen humans in the MCU accomplish things real humans would never be able to do, they were never this blatantly superhuman. The feats that Black Widow accomplished in this movie is inconsistent with how she'd been depicted in the past as well as how other human fighters in the MCU had been depicted in the past. It's bad writing/directing no matter how you look at it. The whole Marvel Universe is unrealistic. Why are you picking on the Black Widow? Nobody has invented an Iron Man suit. Nobody has hulked out over radiation exposure. Nobody fights crime with arrows that blow up. Nobody has visited from another galaxy with a magic hammer. Etc, etc, etc . . . You guys are being ridiculous. It's one thing to point out inconsistencies with make believe and reality. But to trash a make believe movie because it's not realistic is stupid.
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Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
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Post by Jason143 on Jul 21, 2021 16:35:29 GMT
I have to agree with Morgana here. While these shows are indeed fiction, they still need to follow some kind of in-universe laws in order for them to not end up being completely looney toons. Black Widow in this universe is human. And while we've seen humans in the MCU accomplish things real humans would never be able to do, they were never this blatantly superhuman. The feats that Black Widow accomplished in this movie is inconsistent with how she'd been depicted in the past as well as how other human fighters in the MCU had been depicted in the past. It's bad writing/directing no matter how you look at it. The whole Marvel Universe is unrealistic. Why are you picking on the Black Widow? Nobody has invented an Iron Man suit. Nobody has hulked out over radiation exposure. Nobody fights crime with arrows that blow up. Nobody has visited from another galaxy with a magic hammer. Etc, etc, etc . . . You guys are being ridiculous. It's one thing to point out inconsistencies with make believe and reality. But to trash a make believe movie because it's not realistic is stupid. Hulk, Ironman, Thor and Hawkeye all have power limits and in-built vulnerabilities that need to be respected. You are being ridiculous. You seem the type of person that doesn't think for themselves and is easily pleased. Black Widow is not a supersolider, she shouldnt be able to do what Cap and Bucky can do in physical output. If its all entertainment and gaga, then lets just give Ironman the ability to teleport countries in an instant and Hulk the ability to throw radioactive icecream cones that turn enemies into jelly shall we because according to you its all unrealistic anyway.
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Deleted
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@Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 16:36:03 GMT
I really liked the family drama subplot. The main plot was pretty lame though. Overall I’d give it a 6.5/10.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 16:42:35 GMT
I have to agree with Morgana here. While these shows are indeed fiction, they still need to follow some kind of in-universe laws in order for them to not end up being completely looney toons. Black Widow in this universe is human. And while we've seen humans in the MCU accomplish things real humans would never be able to do, they were never this blatantly superhuman. The feats that Black Widow accomplished in this movie is inconsistent with how she'd been depicted in the past as well as how other human fighters in the MCU had been depicted in the past. It's bad writing/directing no matter how you look at it. The whole Marvel Universe is unrealistic. Why are you picking on the Black Widow? Nobody has invented an Iron Man suit. Nobody has hulked out over radiation exposure. Nobody fights crime with arrows that blow up. Nobody has visited from another galaxy with a magic hammer. Etc, etc, etc . . . You guys are being ridiculous. It's one thing to point out inconsistencies with make believe and reality. But to trash a make believe movie because it's not realistic is stupid. Again, in-universe rules. Even fictional stories lay down their own set of rules and laws and whenever they end up breaking them, then that's just bad writing. All the characters in the MCU have their power sets and limitations. They can't just do anything for no other reason than just because. For example: Yeah Tony Stark created a high-tech Ironman suit. But he isn't extremely strong or durable without the suit. If Winter Soldier punched him in the chest without his suit and he just stood their and tanked the hit, that would be inconsistent with the ruleset that the MCU had already built. Yeah, Thor is an extremely powerful being from a different galaxy with a magical hammer. If in Age of Ultron he was shown to suddenly be an extremely skilled computer hacker, that would be completely incongruous with the foundation the MCU already laid down. What if Hawkeye was suddenly able to beat Hulk in a fist fight? What if Hulk was suddenly able to grow to 70 feet tall? What if Vision suddenly developed the powers to turn back time? All of those sound ridiculous because it goes against the powersets and limitations the MCU has already put in place. If they first created an explanation for them, then that's different. So Black Widow being able to survive an exploding car with zero injuries and zero explanations give? That's ridiculous. Black Widow surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete, getting smashed multiple times along the way, with zero serious injury? That makes about as much sense as Hulk getting hurt by punch from a regular human.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 16:43:00 GMT
The whole Marvel Universe is unrealistic. Why are you picking on the Black Widow? Nobody has invented an Iron Man suit. Nobody has hulked out over radiation exposure. Nobody fights crime with arrows that blow up. Nobody has visited from another galaxy with a magic hammer. Etc, etc, etc . . . You guys are being ridiculous. It's one thing to point out inconsistencies with make believe and reality. But to trash a make believe movie because it's not realistic is stupid. Hulk, Ironman, Thor and Hawkeye all have power limits and in-built vulnerabilities that need to be respected. You are being ridiculous. You seem the type of person that doesn't think for themselves and is easily pleased. Black Widow is not a supersolider, she shouldnt be able to do what Cap and Bucky can do in physical output. If its all entertainment and gaga, then lets just give Ironman the ability to teleport countries in an instant and Hulk the ability to throw radioactive icecream cones that turn enemies into jelly shall we because according to you its all unrealistic anyway. Black Widow hasn't done anything in any Avenger movie that is a superpower other than hit hard and absorb hard hits. She doesn't fly She doesn't shoot lasers out of her hands. She doesn't hulk out. She doesn't invent Iron Man suits. She doesn't perform intergalactic travel.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 16:44:36 GMT
The whole Marvel Universe is unrealistic. Why are you picking on the Black Widow? Nobody has invented an Iron Man suit. Nobody has hulked out over radiation exposure. Nobody fights crime with arrows that blow up. Nobody has visited from another galaxy with a magic hammer. Etc, etc, etc . . . You guys are being ridiculous. It's one thing to point out inconsistencies with make believe and reality. But to trash a make believe movie because it's not realistic is stupid. Again, in-universe rules. Even fictional stories lay down their own set of rules and laws and whenever they end up breaking them, then that's just bad writing. For example: Yeah Tony Stark created a high-tech Ironman suit. But he isn't extremely strong or durable without the suit. If Winter Soldier punched him in the chest without his suit and he just stood their and tanked the hit, that would be inconsistent with the ruleset that the MCU had already built. Yeah, Thor is an extremely powerful being from a different galaxy with a magical hammer. If in Age of Ultron he was shown to suddenly be an extremely skilled computer hacker, that would be completely incongruous with the foundation the MCU already laid down. What if Hawkeye was suddenly able to beat Hulk in a fist fight? What if Hulk was suddenly able to grow to 70 feet tall? What if Vision suddenly developed the powers to turn back time? All of those sound ridiculous because there has been no groundwork laid down by the MCU to explain them. If they first created an explanation for them, then that's different. So Black Widow being able to survive an exploding car with zero injuries and zero explanations give? That's ridiculous. Black Widow surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete, getting smashed multiple times along the way, with zero serious injury? That makes about as much sense as Hulk getting hurt by punch from a regular human. Black Widow hasn't done anything in any Avenger movie that is a superpower other than hit hard and absorb hard hits. She doesn't fly She doesn't shoot lasers out of her hands. She doesn't hulk out. She doesn't invent Iron Man suits. She doesn't perform intergalactic travel.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 17:17:34 GMT
Again, in-universe rules. Even fictional stories lay down their own set of rules and laws and whenever they end up breaking them, then that's just bad writing. For example: Yeah Tony Stark created a high-tech Ironman suit. But he isn't extremely strong or durable without the suit. If Winter Soldier punched him in the chest without his suit and he just stood their and tanked the hit, that would be inconsistent with the ruleset that the MCU had already built. Yeah, Thor is an extremely powerful being from a different galaxy with a magical hammer. If in Age of Ultron he was shown to suddenly be an extremely skilled computer hacker, that would be completely incongruous with the foundation the MCU already laid down. What if Hawkeye was suddenly able to beat Hulk in a fist fight? What if Hulk was suddenly able to grow to 70 feet tall? What if Vision suddenly developed the powers to turn back time? All of those sound ridiculous because there has been no groundwork laid down by the MCU to explain them. If they first created an explanation for them, then that's different. So Black Widow being able to survive an exploding car with zero injuries and zero explanations give? That's ridiculous. Black Widow surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete, getting smashed multiple times along the way, with zero serious injury? That makes about as much sense as Hulk getting hurt by punch from a regular human. Black Widow hasn't done anything in any Avenger movie that is a superpower other than hit hard and absorb hard hits. She doesn't fly She doesn't shoot lasers out of her hands. She doesn't hulk out. She doesn't invent Iron Man suits. She doesn't perform intergalactic travel. She also doesn't have super durability nor super strength. Yet she's taking on falls and explosions that would challenge even a super soldier. Again, bad writing.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 17:25:58 GMT
Black Widow hasn't done anything in any Avenger movie that is a superpower other than hit hard and absorb hard hits. She doesn't fly She doesn't shoot lasers out of her hands. She doesn't hulk out. She doesn't invent Iron Man suits. She doesn't perform intergalactic travel. She also doesn't have super durability nor super strength. Yet she's taking on falls and explosions that would challenge even a super soldier. Again, bad writing. That is no different for Iron Man. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowers other than his intellect. And that is not going to protect him from hard hits. I've seen Iron Man get hit so hard he flies through the air 300 to 500 feet and smashes through a building. No human being can survive that just because they are wearing a suit made of iron. But he gets right up and keeps fighting.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 17:33:05 GMT
She also doesn't have super durability nor super strength. Yet she's taking on falls and explosions that would challenge even a super soldier. Again, bad writing. That is no different for Iron Man. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowers other than his intellect. And that is not going to protect him from hard hits. I've seen Iron Man get hit so hard he flies through the air 300 to 500 feet and smashes through a building. No human being can survive that just because they are wearing a suit made of iron. But he gets right up and keeps fighting. But it IS different. Tony Stark can do superpowered things because he has a superpowered suit. That's the explanation. Sure, the movie does exaggerate what the suit can do far more than what is realistically possible, but it does at least have an explanation. Black Widow doesn't have an explanation for the superpowered things she does in this movie. She can survive an exploding car or falling 50 feet onto pavement. Why, because she's good fighter? Yeah, that's just bad writing. Even Captain America gets hurt when he falls from too high a height, and he's a super soldier and has a vibranium shield to absorb impact.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 17:37:56 GMT
That is no different for Iron Man. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowers other than his intellect. And that is not going to protect him from hard hits. I've seen Iron Man get hit so hard he flies through the air 300 to 500 feet and smashes through a building. No human being can survive that just because they are wearing a suit made of iron. But he gets right up and keeps fighting. But it IS different. Tony Stark can do superpowered things because he has a superpowered suit. That's the explanation. Sure, a lot of what he does is still not realistic even with the super suit, but it's still an explanation. Black Widow doesn't have an explanation. She can survive an exploding car with zero injuries because she's good at fighting? Yeah... that doesn't fly. No. All these superheros survive things that would knock out, break bones or kill a normal human being. But it's fantasy entertainment. Because protagonists getting knocked out, broken bones and killed in every fight is not a recipe for an entertaining movie. Black Widow is a superhero. They all have heightened survivability characteristics.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 17:39:11 GMT
But it IS different. Tony Stark can do superpowered things because he has a superpowered suit. That's the explanation. Sure, a lot of what he does is still not realistic even with the super suit, but it's still an explanation. Black Widow doesn't have an explanation. She can survive an exploding car with zero injuries because she's good at fighting? Yeah... that doesn't fly. No. All these superheros survive things that would knock out, break bones or kill a normal human being. But it's fantasy entertainment. Protagonist getting knocked out, broken bones and killed in every fight is not a recipe for an entertaining movie. Black Widow is a superhero. They all have heightened survivability characteristics. And all of these superheroes have some kind of superpower or supertechnology that explains why they can survive these things. Black Widow has none of that.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 17:45:26 GMT
No. All these superheros survive things that would knock out, break bones or kill a normal human being. But it's fantasy entertainment. Protagonist getting knocked out, broken bones and killed in every fight is not a recipe for an entertaining movie. Black Widow is a superhero. They all have heightened survivability characteristics. And all of these superheroes have some kind of superpower or supertechnology that explains why they can survive these things. Black Widow has none of that. What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train? All these superheroes are unrealistic. Same with their ability to survive hard hits. Same with Black Widow. I agree, anybody but Thor picking up the hammer is inexcusably inconsistent. Same thing with Tony Stark, Captain America or the bow and arrow guy flying. But just being super tough is not inconsistent.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 17:59:54 GMT
And all of these superheroes have some kind of superpower or supertechnology that explains why they can survive these things. Black Widow has none of that. What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train? All these superheroes are unrealistic. Same with their ability to survivr hard hits. Same with Black Widow. I agree, anybody but Thor picking up the hammer is inexcusably inconsistent. Same thing with Tony Stark, Captain America or the bow and arrow guy flying. But just being super tough is not inconsistent. "What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train?" - he has a superpowered suit that grants him various superpowered abilities, two of which are super strength and super durability. Is it the most realistic explanation? No. But it is an explanation that is backed up fairly consistently by his movie feats. Now, what explanation does Black Widow have for surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete without injury?
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 18:06:13 GMT
What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train? All these superheroes are unrealistic. Same with their ability to survivr hard hits. Same with Black Widow. I agree, anybody but Thor picking up the hammer is inexcusably inconsistent. Same thing with Tony Stark, Captain America or the bow and arrow guy flying. But just being super tough is not inconsistent. "What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train?" - he has a superpowered suit that grants him various superpowered abilities, two of which are super strength and super durability. Is it the most realistic explanation? No. But it is an explanation that is backed up fairly consistently by his movie feats. Now, what explanation does Black Widow have for surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete without injury? That doesn't make any sense. There is no padding in any helmet that can keep anybody conscious when they get hit hard enough to drop a jet plane. People get knocked out when their brains bounce off their skulls. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowered padding in his head. And no exterior helmet can defend against that.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 18:16:45 GMT
"What technology does Iron Man have to protect him from getting knocked out when he gets hit hard enough to damage a train?" - he has a superpowered suit that grants him various superpowered abilities, two of which are super strength and super durability. Is it the most realistic explanation? No. But it is an explanation that is backed up fairly consistently by his movie feats. Now, what explanation does Black Widow have for surviving a 50 foot drop onto concrete without injury? That doesn't make any sense. There is no padding in any helmet that can keep anybody conscious when they get hit hard enough to drop a jet plane. People get knocked out when their brains bounce off their skulls. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowered padding in his head. And no exterior helmet can defend against that. There is also no fuel powerful enough to constantly keep him in flight as long as he does without some huge fuel tanks strapped onto him. No technology yet that allows us to create repulsor blasts. That doesn't matter. What matters is that an explanation was given: He's able to do superpower things because he has a superpowered suit. The mechanics behind it aren't as important as the fact that we're at LEAST given a reason for him being able to do what he does. Audiences are willing to suspend their disbelief as long as there's an explanation given, even if that explanation has holes. As long as the movie is consistent with this explanation then it works. When a character all of a sudden does something completely inconsistent with the explanation, that's the problem. Tony's superpowered suit grants him superstrength and superdurability along with the ability to fly and utilize various ranged firearms and attacks. People will buy that. If all of a sudden he was able to mind control people, that's completely outside of the superpowers the movie has defined for him. That's what Black Widow did. She performed actions outside of what previous movies have defined her capabilities to be WITHOUT an explanation. Again, that's weak writing.
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 18:21:59 GMT
That doesn't make any sense. There is no padding in any helmet that can keep anybody conscious when they get hit hard enough to drop a jet plane. People get knocked out when their brains bounce off their skulls. Tony Stark doesn't have superpowered padding in his head. And no exterior helmet can defend against that. There is also no fuel powerful enough to constantly keep him in flight as long as he does without some huge fuel tanks strapped onto him. No technology yet that allows us to create repulsor blasts. That doesn't matter. What matters is that an explanation was given: He's able to do superpower things because he has a superpowered suit. The mechanics behind it aren't as important as the fact that we're at LEAST given a reason for him being able to do what he does. Audiences are willing to suspend their disbelief as long as there's an explanation given, even if that explanation has holes. As long as the movie is consistent with this explanation then it works. When a character all of a sudden does something completely inconsistent with the explanation, that's the problem. Tony's superpowered suit grants him superstrength and superdurability along with the ability to fly and utilize various ranged firearms and attacks. People will buy that. If all of a sudden he was able to mind control people, that's completely outside of the superpowers the movie has defined for him. That's what Black Widow did. She performed actions outside of what previous movies have defined her capabilities to be WITHOUT an explanation. Again, that's weak writing. There is no explanation for Tony Stark being able to not get concussions or knocked out, in any movie. There is no realistic possiblity of a man being exposed to radiation turning into a super strong and able superhero. What powers and abilties did Black Widow have in her own movie that she didn't have in other Avenger movies?
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 18:25:02 GMT
There is also no fuel powerful enough to constantly keep him in flight as long as he does without some huge fuel tanks strapped onto him. No technology yet that allows us to create repulsor blasts. That doesn't matter. What matters is that an explanation was given: He's able to do superpower things because he has a superpowered suit. The mechanics behind it aren't as important as the fact that we're at LEAST given a reason for him being able to do what he does. Audiences are willing to suspend their disbelief as long as there's an explanation given, even if that explanation has holes. As long as the movie is consistent with this explanation then it works. When a character all of a sudden does something completely inconsistent with the explanation, that's the problem. Tony's superpowered suit grants him superstrength and superdurability along with the ability to fly and utilize various ranged firearms and attacks. People will buy that. If all of a sudden he was able to mind control people, that's completely outside of the superpowers the movie has defined for him. That's what Black Widow did. She performed actions outside of what previous movies have defined her capabilities to be WITHOUT an explanation. Again, that's weak writing. There is no explanation for Tony Stark being able to not get concussions or knocked out, in any movie. There is no realistic possiblity of a man being exposed to radiation turning into a super strong and able superhero. What powers and abilties did Black Widow have in her own movie that she didn't have in other Avenger movies? You're trying to avoid the question dude. There is an explanation provided for why Tony Stark can withstand the hits that he takes. I don't care if you agree or disagree with that explanation, you can nitpick as much as you want, the fact is that there was an explanation provided. Was there ever an explanation provided for why Black Widow could survive a car explosion point blank with zero injuries?
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Post by movieliker on Jul 21, 2021 18:37:13 GMT
There is no explanation for Tony Stark being able to not get concussions or knocked out, in any movie. There is no realistic possiblity of a man being exposed to radiation turning into a super strong and able superhero. What powers and abilties did Black Widow have in her own movie that she didn't have in other Avenger movies? You're trying to avoid the question dude. There is an explanation provided for why Tony Stark can withstand the hits that he takes. I don't care if you agree or disagree with that explanation, you can nitpick as much as you want, the fact is that there was an explanation provided. Was there ever an explanation provided for why Black Widow could survive a car explosion point blank with zero injuries? There is no difference in surviving the impact of a hard hit, and the impact of an explosion. There is no logic in an Iron Man suit protecting against concussion and being knocked unconcious.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 18:49:59 GMT
You're trying to avoid the question dude. There is an explanation provided for why Tony Stark can withstand the hits that he takes. I don't care if you agree or disagree with that explanation, you can nitpick as much as you want, the fact is that there was an explanation provided. Was there ever an explanation provided for why Black Widow could survive a car explosion point blank with zero injuries? There is no difference in surviving the impact of a hard hit, and the impact of an explosion. There is no logic in an Iron Man suit protecting against concussion and being knocked unconcious. Tony Stark surviving an explosion has an explanation. He has a superpowered suit. Whether or not you agree with that explanation is irrelevant. What's important is that the movies provided an explanation. Black Widow surviving an explosion.... what's the explanation? Because the movies certainly never provided one.
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