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Post by marshamae on Jul 16, 2021 13:29:07 GMT
Why is it so hard for American filmmakers to do Europe, especially Eastern Europe? Is it really hard to get any foreign setting right? Is it our predilection for the Disney version of foreign cultures? We always perseverate on decor, the piñata, the balalaika etc. Those are the obvious things. We do not seem to be good at the small historical details . I watched Shop around the Corner and To Be or Not To Be this week. The use of Hungarian and Polish, the correct pronunciation, are details that you rarely see from an American filmmaker.
Do Filmmakers from other countries have an equally hard time creating American settings?
what might RICHARD Brooks have included in the Brothers KARAMAZOV to NOT have it look like a road company of Dr ZHIVAGO?
Did ZHIVAGO look more Russian?
these and any other questions answered are welcome
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Post by Isapop on Jul 16, 2021 14:31:33 GMT
It would be hard for anyone not intimately familiar with foreign cultures to spot where American films aren't getting it right.
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Post by sostie on Jul 16, 2021 18:57:12 GMT
Richard Lester didn't do too bad, but he had lived in Britain and worked in British TV for some years. Maybe that's the reason...the best are those that have lived within the culture.
It seems also reflected with actors and accents. Certainly regards Britain. Brits can do American, not many vice versa.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 16, 2021 19:21:58 GMT
That's funny about Lester because Richard Donner was critical of how he showed American rural towns in Superman. He said that was a comedy caricature which is true. You even had a kid in suspenders. "Don't hurt my daddy!" I was going to say what about Italian filmmakers of Westerns? I think the average Italian view of the old West was that it was a time of barbarians and gangsters. Which is fine--that's what you expect--different strokes for different folks. A Hammer Dracula movie set in Transylvania sure can find the tiny element of Queen's English speakers in the villages there and make it the dominant one. Another thing is how they used to give foreign filmmakers an "American" type name. So Sergio Leone became some English-sounding name etc.
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Post by timshelboy on Jul 16, 2021 20:21:34 GMT
I think Robert Parish got Irwin Shaw's Paris,,,,
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jul 19, 2021 10:10:49 GMT
Three of the examples you've singled out are interesting to me (I can't really comment on The Brothers Karamazov, as I've never been able to make it through that film, finding it a crashing bore). Both The Shop Around the Corner and To Be Or Not To Be were products of screenwriting and direction by German-born Ernst Lubitsch, who'd been working in the American film industry since the mid-'20s, and perhaps unsurprisingly, many of his films for U.S. studios were Euro-centric.
That's an especially interesting one. I've told this story before on this board and the old site: first time I saw Zhivago was at an afternoon matinee at which I happened to be seated next to an elderly Russian woman who'd lived through the period and events depicted. If you recall, the intermission comes in the midst of the "cattle car" sequence as the train travels through the Urals. When the lights came up, she was dabbing at her eyes with a handkerchief and told me, "That's just how it was." When the film was over, she praised it for so effectively capturing the feelings and atmospheres of the places and times (in spite of the primarily Spanish and Finnish locations). Of course, director David Lean and other major creative personnel - screenwriter, production designer, cinematographer and so forth - along with the majority of the cast were English, and the producer Italian, so I couldn't guess to what extent, if any, American sensibilities may have crept into the finished product.
All in all, American-made films depicting foreign cultures, either contemporary or historic, placed themselves under two self-imposed disadvantages, particularly during the "classic era," when mostly American actors, speaking English, played all manner of nationalities. Take the two Lubitsch examples: are there any more quintessentially-American players than James Stewart, Margaret Sullavan and Frank Morgan, or Carole Lombard, Jack Benny and Robert Stack?
The second disadvantage was that, in spite of lucrative foreign markets, they were made for U.S. audiences, and to appeal to their sensibilities. And no doubt, their preconceived notions and stereotypes as well. Alfred Hitchcock and screenwriter Anthony Shaffer had a little fun with those two items in 1972's Frenzy. In an exchange between a doctor and a lawyer in a London pub, one of them says, "Foreigners somehow expect the squares of London to be fog-wreathed, full of hansom cabs and littered with ripped whores, don't you think?"
When you come down to it, film makers of the classic period were often just as fast and loose with American culture, as often as not depicting idealized versions of contemporary eras and mythologized versions of historical ones.
An area of special interest to me, that of the process of film making itself, provides a perhaps revealing illustration of what those film makers intended to sell: it's probably safe to say that about 95% of American "movies about movies" went out of their way to portray fictionalized versions of those very processes. When it's that obvious concerning things about which they know better, you gotta figure the inaccuracies are deliberate. Writer/director Richard Rush had some intentional fun of his own about those inaccuracies in The Stunt Man, in which the entire narrative is wrapped within the theme of reality vs. illusion, and then engages the illusions about which we've been informed to depict film making as it was never practiced anywhere, by anyone, at any time. It's an exquisitely sly endeavor, rather like a stage illusionist explaining to the audience beforehand how he'll accomplish his trick, and then fooling them with it anyway.
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Post by lune7000 on Jul 19, 2021 20:51:18 GMT
It should be noted that the majority of set designers, wardrobe people, composers, etc. of the Hollywood classic period were themselves immigrants or very recent second generation at best. They knew full well what Europe really looked like and also had access to film from Europe so studying authentic designs was a cinch.
My guess is that it came down to cost cutting. A generic building front can be used in many different films with little modification and extra cost. The audience couldn't tell the difference or didn't care. I read about 30 books about Hollywood in the past 5 months and everything that was done was done for money.
The only exceptions were that each studio had a few epic movies a year that they spent lots of money on to get an Oscar and prestige- knowing that they would lose money on that particular film. Movies were often seen as a morally degenerate force by reformers and by doing a few epic "highbrow" movies a year, a studio could win over the matrons of the cultural elite and make up for all that pulp fiction crap the public so loved.
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