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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jul 17, 2021 8:15:05 GMT
The Russian Imperial family was murdered in the basement of the Ipatiev House in Yekaterinburg, four of the servants where also murdered with the Imperial family Imperial Family
Emperor Nicholas II (1868-1918) Empress Alexandra (1872-1918) Grand Duchess Olga (1895-1918) Grand Duchess Tatiana (1897-1918) Grand Duchess Maria (1899-1918) Grand Duchess Anastasia (1901-1918) Tsarevich Alexei (1904-1918)ServentsIvan Kharitonov ( 1872-1918) Alexei Trupp ( 1856-1918) Anna Demidova ( 1878-1918) Eugene Botkin (1865-1918) Ipatiev House (Build in the 1880s, demolished in 1977) The basement where the murdered took place Execution of the Romanov family
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Post by Stammerhead on Sept 30, 2021 11:22:14 GMT
Practically though, the Bolsheviks had to kill the entire family. If one had survived they would have been a rallying point for Czarist reactionaries.
When a noble family with "divine right" is removed, you can leave no heirs with a legitimate claim to succession. When you consider how we managed to import foreigners to keep our monarchy going I can’t help but think that the Bolsheviks grew lazy and and decided to cease hunting down those dangerous Blue Bloods.
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Post by Stammerhead on Sept 30, 2021 17:55:49 GMT
When you consider how we managed to import foreigners to keep our monarchy going I can’t help but think that the Bolsheviks grew lazy and and decided to cease hunting down those dangerous Blue Bloods. As if there were no Englishmen who could have assumed the throne so they imported Germans? I don't think that's why. All the European Royal families formed an elite social network. They existed on a different plane where a German could be King of England and a Greek could be King of Denmark.
The monarchs based their legitimacy on the Divine Right of bloodlines. The Bolsheviks didn't have to hunt down every second cousin of the Romanovs. As long as they killed the closest heirs, they were good. They only eliminated the ones who would stir the passions of the Russian people.
For example, if Czar Nicholas' son, the crown prince Alexei had survived, though he was a small boy, every schemer in Europe would have groomed him to start a counter revolution upon adulthood. I suspect the Bolsheviks didn't enjoy murdering a child. But the boy had to die.
If the Russians really wanted a new ruler they’d have imported one but people just like having an excuse to kill other people and feeling like they did the right thing. That’s why there are millions of Russians who were state murdered without getting a YouTube video commemorating their untimely demise. Now stop being so snooty.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 30, 2021 20:44:24 GMT
Practically though, the Bolsheviks had to kill the entire family. If one had survived they would have been a rallying point for Czarist reactionaries.
When a noble family with "divine right" is removed, you can leave no heirs with a legitimate claim to succession. The Bolsheviks learned from history. They knew how much grief The 'Emigres", the Bourbon brothers of Louis XVI caused Revolutionary France. They didn't want Grand Duke Mikhail back in 20 years. Still, it was some cold shit shooting the Grand Duchesses. hey were sweet girls and very pretty
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Sept 30, 2021 21:29:26 GMT
At the time of Nicholas II abdication on the 15(2) of March 1917, there where 53 members alive from the Romanov dynasty. The Bolsheviks killed 18 of them.
14 of the 18 where killed between June 13, 1918 and July 18, 1918, and 4 on the 28 of January 1919.
12 of them where male members and 6 female members.
But one thing i have noticed when it comes to Nicholas II is this
There seem to be two types of portrayal of Nicholas II One extremely negative and one extremely positive. The truth can probably be found somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 1, 2021 9:07:07 GMT
At the time of Nicholas II abdication on the 15(2) of March 1917, there where 53 members alive from the Romanov dynasty. The Bolsheviks killed 18 of them. 14 of the 18 where killed between June 13, 1918 and July 18, 1918, and 4 on the 28 of January 1919. 12 of them where male members and 6 female members. But one thing i have noticed when it comes to Nicholas II is this There seem to be two types of portrayal of Nicholas II One extremely negative and one extremely positive. The truth can probably be found somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. A starving peasant or a prisoner in a Siberian labor camp would have been extremely negative. I am talking about people today. But yes they would.
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 1, 2021 17:55:54 GMT
If the Russians really wanted a new ruler they’d have imported one but people just like having an excuse to kill other people and feeling like they did the right thing. That’s why there are millions of Russians who were state murdered without getting a YouTube video commemorating their untimely demise. Now stop being so snooty. It's a bit naive to say that revolutions are fought as an excuse to kill people. Regardless of what later happened, i.e. Stalin and Communist authoritarianism, the Russian Revolution was necessary. The Czar and his heirs had to go. It’s a good thing I didn’t say that. I don’t really have that much sympathy for the Russian royal family but I have a feeling that there was a bit of revenge mixed in with the strategic plan to rid the country of royalty. That might be why the servants also got the bullet.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 1, 2021 18:27:55 GMT
It's a bit naive to say that revolutions are fought as an excuse to kill people. Regardless of what later happened, i.e. Stalin and Communist authoritarianism, the Russian Revolution was necessary. The Czar and his heirs had to go. It’s a good thing I didn’t say that. I don’t really have that much sympathy for the Russian royal family but I have a feeling that there was a bit of revenge mixed in with the strategic plan to rid the country of royalty. That might be why the servants also got the bullet. Russia had an imperial family, not an royal family.
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 1, 2021 19:37:53 GMT
It’s a good thing I didn’t say that. I don’t really have that much sympathy for the Russian royal family but I have a feeling that there was a bit of revenge mixed in with the strategic plan to rid the country of royalty. That might be why the servants also got the bullet. Russia had an imperial family, not a royal family. For some reason my mind chokes on “imperial family”.
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 1, 2021 20:57:48 GMT
It’s a good thing I didn’t say that. I don’t really have that much sympathy for the Russian royal family but I have a feeling that there was a bit of revenge mixed in with the strategic plan to rid the country of royalty. That might be why the servants also got the bullet. Oh here we go again.
I said it. It's my commentary on your statement. It was not an "excuse to kill people". It was a necessary part of the revolution. A Communist I knew was angered when Romania shot Nicolae Ceaușescu and his wife but perhaps that was because he thought it should have been done in a basement. I personally haven’t been involved in a revolution but at first the plan was to exile the Romanovs (in the end other countries didn’t seem to want them) but that government lost power and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them also received a necessary bullet to the head.
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 3, 2021 10:52:30 GMT
A Communist I knew was angered when Romania shot Nicolae Ceaușescu and his wife but perhaps that was because he thought it should have been done in a basement. I personally haven’t been involved in a revolution but at first the plan was to exile the Romanovs (in the end other countries didn’t seem to want them) but that government lost power and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them also received a necessary bullet to the head. I suppose it depends whose side you're on. I was opposed to Saddam Hussein's execution.
Sure, it may have been preferable to allow the Romanovs to live in exile. But in the fever pitch of victory, I can understand why they were executed. People die in war. If the Czar's soldiers could sacrifice their lives for imperialist Russia, so could the Czar himself.
They all suffered relatively merciful deaths compared to Nicholas’ sister and other members of the family who were beaten, thrown down a mine shaft while still alive, had grenades thrown down after them followed by brush wood which was then set on fire. Most of them took a long time to die. Princess Elizabeth had become a nun and worked with the poor but even she was seen as dangerous to the revolution. Apparently Lenin welcomed Elisabeth's death with "virtue with the crown on it is a greater enemy to the world revolution than a hundred tyrant tsars".
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 3, 2021 12:33:42 GMT
I suppose it depends whose side you're on. I was opposed to Saddam Hussein's execution.
Sure, it may have been preferable to allow the Romanovs to live in exile. But in the fever pitch of victory, I can understand why they were executed. People die in war. If the Czar's soldiers could sacrifice their lives for imperialist Russia, so could the Czar himself.
They all suffered relatively merciful deaths compared to Nicholas’ sister and other members of the family who were beaten, thrown down a mine shaft while still alive, had grenades thrown down after them followed by brush wood which was then set on fire. Most of them took a long time to die. Princess Elizabeth had become a nun and worked with the poor but even she was seen as dangerous to the revolution. Apparently Lenin welcomed Elisabeth's death with "virtue with the crown on it is a greater enemy to the world revolution than a hundred tyrant tsars". Nicholas sisters Olga and Xenia survived and left Russia in 1919, they both died in 1960 Olga in Canada and Xenia in England Elizabeth was the sister of Alexandra not Nicholas. Elizabeth was also a Grand Duchess and not a princess as she was married to Grand Duke Sergei who was assassinated in Moscow in 1905. Elizabeth was the aunt of Nicholas through marriage as her husband Sergei was the younger brother of Alexander III (Nicholas II father)
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 3, 2021 13:07:42 GMT
They all suffered relatively merciful deaths compared to Nicholas’ sister and other members of the family who were beaten, thrown down a mine shaft while still alive, had grenades thrown down after them followed by brush wood which was then set on fire. Most of them took a long time to die. Princess Elizabeth had become a nun and worked with the poor but even she was seen as dangerous to the revolution. Apparently Lenin welcomed Elisabeth's death with "virtue with the crown on it is a greater enemy to the world revolution than a hundred tyrant tsars". Nicholas sisters Olga and Xenia survived and left Russia in 1919, they both died in 1960 Olga in Canada and Xenia in England Elizabeth was the sister of Alexandra not Nicholas. Elizabeth was also a Grand Duchess and not a princess as she was married to Grand Duke Sergei who was assassinated in Moscow in 1905. Elizabeth was the aunt of Nicholas through marriage as her husband Sergei was the younger brother of Alexander III (Nicholas II father) I’m not really that much of an expert and didn’t even know about her until I read the Wiki page about Nicholas and came to the wrong conclusion. But family connections aside that was a horrific way to die.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 3, 2021 14:49:32 GMT
Nicholas sisters Olga and Xenia survived and left Russia in 1919, they both died in 1960 Olga in Canada and Xenia in England Elizabeth was the sister of Alexandra not Nicholas. Elizabeth was also a Grand Duchess and not a princess as she was married to Grand Duke Sergei who was assassinated in Moscow in 1905. Elizabeth was the aunt of Nicholas through marriage as her husband Sergei was the younger brother of Alexander III (Nicholas II father) I’m not really that much of an expert and didn’t even know about her until I read the Wiki page about Nicholas and came to the wrong conclusion. But family connections aside that was a horrific way to die. Yes it was
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Post by Stammerhead on Oct 3, 2021 20:28:46 GMT
They all suffered relatively merciful deaths compared to Nicholas’ sister and other members of the family who were beaten, thrown down a mine shaft while still alive, had grenades thrown down after them followed by brush wood which was then set on fire. Most of them took a long time to die. Princess Elizabeth had become a nun and worked with the poor but even she was seen as dangerous to the revolution. Apparently Lenin welcomed Elisabeth's death with "virtue with the crown on it is a greater enemy to the world revolution than a hundred tyrant tsars". But the horrible deaths of royalty did not make the Bolshevik revolution any less necessary.
Lenin's point was that monarchy and the divine right of kings or czars, no matter how virtuous, is incongruous with a modern democratic society. We don't throw away self rule and liberty because the king is nice.
Yeah but a revolutionary can still be a murdering, self righteous thug. War is war but throwing people down a mine and chucking grenades onto them is sick no matter how you cut it. If Lenin wanted that nun dead that bad he should have found someone who could do the fucking job right. I wonder if anyone in Russia got smacked after saying something like that.
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