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Post by Skaathar on Jul 19, 2021 19:06:38 GMT
Had a conversation in another MCU group I'm a member of. I mentioned how both Loki and Black Widow had pretty weak writing and character development all around. They all ganged up on me, because how dare I not enjoy Loki and Black Widow when they were clearly awesome!
When I asked them why they thought these shows were awesome, the responses I got where:
* Because it gave us Kang!
* Because we got female Loki!
* Because we got multiverses now!
* Because they introduced Taskmaster!
* That Throg scene was awesome!
* We got Iron maiden and Red Guardian in the same movie!
And as I'm hearing all their reasons, I started to see a pattern: Do MCU fans no longer care about good writing and character development? Is dropping a number of comic easter-eggs all that's necessary to get MCU fans all hyped up and rate a show a 9/10 or 10/10?
Certainly seems to be the case as of late.
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Post by pennypacker on Jul 19, 2021 19:09:07 GMT
And post credit scenes. Don't forget about that.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 19, 2021 19:30:21 GMT
I do think some are obsessed over it yes.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 21, 2021 8:55:45 GMT
Had a conversation in another MCU group I'm a member of. I mentioned how both Loki and Black Widow had pretty weak writing and character development all around. They all ganged up on me, because how dare I not enjoy Loki and Black Widow when they were clearly awesome! When I asked them why they thought these shows were awesome, the responses I got where: * Because it gave us Kang! * Because we got female Loki! * Because we got multiverses now! * Because they introduced Taskmaster! * That Throg scene was awesome! * We got Iron maiden and Red Guardian in the same movie! And as I'm hearing all their reasons, I started to see a pattern: Do MCU fans no longer care about good writing and character development? Is dropping a number of comic easter-eggs all that's necessary to get MCU fans all hyped up and rate a show a 9/10 or 10/10? Certainly seems to be the case as of late. You may call it Easter eggs, but all of that is more universe building. Look at the flip side of that with X-men. They drop so many of that in their movies and it’s just things. There is no universe building when they put in characters from the comics. They are just cameos that has no bearing on anything else. Immortus being there is a big deal for the universe. The multiverse is a big deal going forward.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2021 16:12:42 GMT
Had a conversation in another MCU group I'm a member of. I mentioned how both Loki and Black Widow had pretty weak writing and character development all around. They all ganged up on me, because how dare I not enjoy Loki and Black Widow when they were clearly awesome! When I asked them why they thought these shows were awesome, the responses I got where: * Because it gave us Kang! * Because we got female Loki! * Because we got multiverses now! * Because they introduced Taskmaster! * That Throg scene was awesome! * We got Iron maiden and Red Guardian in the same movie! And as I'm hearing all their reasons, I started to see a pattern: Do MCU fans no longer care about good writing and character development? Is dropping a number of comic easter-eggs all that's necessary to get MCU fans all hyped up and rate a show a 9/10 or 10/10? Certainly seems to be the case as of late. You may call it Easter eggs, but all of that is more universe building. Look at the flip side of that with X-men. They drop so many of that in their movies and it’s just things. There is no universe building when they put in characters from the comics. They are just cameos that has no bearing on anything else. Immortus being there is a big deal for the universe. The multiverse is a big deal going forward. Something being a big deal going forward is not a good excuse for making a bland show in the present. Seeing easter eggs or universe building drops (as you call it) that will only affect things in the future should not be the reason a person (fan or otherwise) rates a show 10/10. The series finale of Loki might have severe repercussions for the MCU moving forward... but that doesn't stop the series finale from being nothing more than exposition after exposition and basically 3 people talking things over sitting in a table.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Jul 21, 2021 17:51:20 GMT
Had a conversation in another MCU group I'm a member of. I mentioned how both Loki and Black Widow had pretty weak writing and character development all around. They all ganged up on me, because how dare I not enjoy Loki and Black Widow when they were clearly awesome! When I asked them why they thought these shows were awesome, the responses I got where: * Because it gave us Kang! * Because we got female Loki! * Because we got multiverses now! * Because they introduced Taskmaster! * That Throg scene was awesome! * We got Iron maiden and Red Guardian in the same movie! And as I'm hearing all their reasons, I started to see a pattern: Do MCU fans no longer care about good writing and character development? Is dropping a number of comic easter-eggs all that's necessary to get MCU fans all hyped up and rate a show a 9/10 or 10/10? Certainly seems to be the case as of late. Offering reasonable criticism of the MCU in a group of hardcore MCU fans? Rookie mistake!  As for the question, I enjoy the Easter eggs, but they aren’t enough to make a movie or show worthwhile. I found all three of the DisneyFlix series to be shallow, poorly written and superficial. I imagine the Kang thing felt random and pointless AF to casual fans who weren’t expecting him or didn’t know who he was. However, I enjoyed seeing Red Guardian on screen for the kicks of seeing the character join the MCU, but I also thought he was well written (for what little screen time he had) and relevant to the story. He didn’t feel like fan service to me.
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Post by spooner5020 on Jul 23, 2021 12:08:23 GMT
I like the movies, but man Black Widow that was just ….not good. I should have known after how much I wasn’t enjoying Loki that Black Widow was gonna be on the same level of quality. It’s odd cause Loki has a lot in it, but just feels so damn BLAND!!! Not even Hiddleston is saving this. I do like the movies and shows themselves and the Easter eggs are a plus, but they’re not the reason I like them.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 23, 2021 16:16:23 GMT
I like the movies, but man Black Widow that was just ….not good. I should have known after how much I wasn’t enjoying Loki that Black Widow was gonna be on the same level of quality. It’s odd cause Loki has a lot in it, but just feels so damn BLAND!!! Not even Hiddleston is saving this. I do like the movies and shows themselves and the Easter eggs are a plus, but they’re not the reason I like them. Loki is weird. The concept of the story is great, and after watching the first episode it automatically became one of my favorite shows. The 2nd episode wasn't as good but I still had high hopes. Then by the 3rd episode it just became bad. I struggled to finish every episode since then. It's weirdly paced, weirdly written, badly choreographed. There's a lot of good potential but just felt like it was written and directed like a highschool play... except done with the budget of a blockbuster. Just... weird.
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Post by Jason143 on Jul 23, 2021 21:03:24 GMT
My observation is that easter eggs become the dominant subject of conversation and the excitement of predicting future events that it entails overshadows the discussion of what people actually enjoyed/disliked about the show/movie. This was apparent during the Star Wars sequel trilogy, people theorizing all sorts instead of critiquing the movie they just watched.
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Post by Lux on Jul 24, 2021 9:30:38 GMT
Had a conversation in another MCU group I'm a member of. I mentioned how both Loki and Black Widow had pretty weak writing and character development all around. They all ganged up on me, because how dare I not enjoy Loki and Black Widow when they were clearly awesome! When I asked them why they thought these shows were awesome, the responses I got where: * Because it gave us Kang! * Because we got female Loki! * Because we got multiverses now! * Because they introduced Taskmaster! * That Throg scene was awesome! * We got Iron maiden and Red Guardian in the same movie! And as I'm hearing all their reasons, I started to see a pattern: Do MCU fans no longer care about good writing and character development? Is dropping a number of comic easter-eggs all that's necessary to get MCU fans all hyped up and rate a show a 9/10 or 10/10? Certainly seems to be the case as of late. Offering reasonable criticism of the MCU in a group of hardcore MCU fans? Rookie mistake! As for the question, I enjoy the Easter eggs, but they aren’t enough to make a movie or show worthwhile. I found all three of the DisneyFlix series to be shallow, poorly written and superficial. I imagine the Kang thing felt random and pointless AF to casual fans who weren’t expecting him or didn’t know who he was. However, I enjoyed seeing Red Guardian on screen for the kicks of seeing the character join the MCU, but I also thought he was well written (for what little screen time he had) and relevant to the story. He didn’t feel like fan service to me. Casual fans if not braindead should at least be expected to do some basic research into what they're watching to not feel Kang is random or pointless. This falls into "the idiot jumping on to a bandwagon not knowing what his or her purpose is on this planet" category to me. |
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Jul 24, 2021 9:54:21 GMT
Why do you care? I don't base my enjoyment or non-enjoyment of a movie based on what others think.
I agree with you about some the weak character development in Loki, but I blame the director because the pacing was way off as she let the actors indulge in too many long pauses...damn, actors, pick up those cues...the time they wasted could have been another 50 minute episode. And what's wrong with people finding joy in Easter eggs?
Haven't see Black Widow, but I won't be looking to be disappointed. They can't knock home runs out the park all the time.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Jul 24, 2021 9:59:37 GMT
I like the movies, but man Black Widow that was just ….not good. I should have known after how much I wasn’t enjoying Loki that Black Widow was gonna be on the same level of quality. It’s odd cause Loki has a lot in it, but just feels so damn BLAND!!! Not even Hiddleston is saving this. I do like the movies and shows themselves and the Easter eggs are a plus, but they’re not the reason I like them. Loki is weird. The concept of the story is great, and after watching the first episode it automatically became one of my favorite shows. The 2nd episode wasn't as good but I still had high hopes. Then by the 3rd episode it just became bad. I struggled to finish every episode since then. It's weirdly paced, weirdly written, badly choreographed. There's a lot of good potential but just felt like it was written and directed like a highschool play... except done with the budget of a blockbuster. Just... weird. Now, it wasn't that bad. The Shroo and Planet Void segments were very well choreographed and inventive. My biggest gripe, other than the pacing, was the huge anti-climatic. talkative last episode. I think Majors as Kang will suck. He's just not that dynamic of an actor to pull it off...in my opinion.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Jul 24, 2021 16:49:44 GMT
Offering reasonable criticism of the MCU in a group of hardcore MCU fans? Rookie mistake! As for the question, I enjoy the Easter eggs, but they aren’t enough to make a movie or show worthwhile. I found all three of the DisneyFlix series to be shallow, poorly written and superficial. I imagine the Kang thing felt random and pointless AF to casual fans who weren’t expecting him or didn’t know who he was. However, I enjoyed seeing Red Guardian on screen for the kicks of seeing the character join the MCU, but I also thought he was well written (for what little screen time he had) and relevant to the story. He didn’t feel like fan service to me. Casual fans if not braindead should at least be expected to do some basic research into what they're watching to not feel Kang is random or pointless. This falls into "the idiot jumping on to a bandwagon not knowing what his or her purpose is on this planet" category to me. Research? Looking up a character from a post credit scene is one thing but viewers should never have to “research” characters to appreciate the ending of the damn story. Now, personally I knew who Kang was and was kind of pleasantly surprised to see him. But it still felt like an ad for the next wave of movies rather than an actual finale to the story at hand. This is something the MCU is usually good at avoiding.
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Post by Lux on Jul 24, 2021 18:10:34 GMT
Casual fans if not braindead should at least be expected to do some basic research into what they're watching to not feel Kang is random or pointless. This falls into "the idiot jumping on to a bandwagon not knowing what his or her purpose is on this planet" category to me. Research? Looking up a character from a post credit scene is one thing but viewers should never have to “research” characters to appreciate the ending of the damn story. Now, personally I knew who Kang was and was kind of pleasantly surprised to see him. But it still felt like an ad for the next wave of movies rather than an actual finale to the story at hand. This is something the MCU is usually good at avoiding. They don't have to research the character, but when you want to watch a Marvel TV show then discuss what happened after you would look less stupid if you understood what was going on, who you watched and which characters appeared and their motivations and their reasoning which will make everything clearer to you the viewer. |
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Post by Surly on Jul 24, 2021 19:19:48 GMT
I like the movies, but man Black Widow that was just ….not good. I should have known after how much I wasn’t enjoying Loki that Black Widow was gonna be on the same level of quality. It’s odd cause Loki has a lot in it, but just feels so damn BLAND!!! Not even Hiddleston is saving this. I do like the movies and shows themselves and the Easter eggs are a plus, but they’re not the reason I like them. Loki is weird. The concept of the story is great, and after watching the first episode it automatically became one of my favorite shows. The 2nd episode wasn't as good but I still had high hopes. Then by the 3rd episode it just became bad. I struggled to finish every episode since then. It's weirdly paced, weirdly written, badly choreographed. There's a lot of good potential but just felt like it was written and directed like a highschool play... except done with the budget of a blockbuster. Just... weird. I do think that they’re starting to rely on Easter eggs too much as a formula. They need to get back to things like character’s personal dilemma, archenemies, motivations, and just stories that are written a little better. Your quote I hi-lighted in bold made me chuckle. The minute I saw it, it made me think of the writing for the Disney Star Wars trilogy. |
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Jul 24, 2021 21:49:44 GMT
Loki is weird. The concept of the story is great, and after watching the first episode it automatically became one of my favorite shows. The 2nd episode wasn't as good but I still had high hopes. Then by the 3rd episode it just became bad. I struggled to finish every episode since then. It's weirdly paced, weirdly written, badly choreographed. There's a lot of good potential but just felt like it was written and directed like a highschool play... except done with the budget of a blockbuster. Just... weird. I do think that they’re starting to rely on Easter eggs too much as a formula. They need to get back to things like character’s personal dilemma, archenemies, motivations, and just stories that are written a little better. Your quote I hi-lighted in bold made me chuckle. The minute I saw it, it made me think of the writing for the Disney Star Wars trilogy. Are Easter eggs used in the print comics? If so, then the film-verse is rightfully keeping within the genre. But I daresay a lot of the so-called eggs are not eggs at all. Even so, if looking for Easter eggs is part of a viewers total enjoyment experience, what’s wrong with that. It’s claimed this is getting in the way of the drama, maybe so, but I’m not disappointed in the TV shows. Flawed they were, but not bad. Actually, overall, pretty good. Frankly, I find it fun that there’s a brief glimpse at what might be Peggy Carter being time arrested by the TVA. After all, she and Cap might be living “illegally” in two timelines on the MCU: one where he’s trapped in ice for decades; the other he’s living life as her husband. And folks like to come to these websites to share the fun, not be castigated for not expecting each film to be Citizen Kane. So, yeah, imagining alternative scenarios that might come to pass in a future story is part of the fun. Killjoys looking for sour grapes are not part of the fun.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 24, 2021 22:43:41 GMT
I do think that they’re starting to rely on Easter eggs too much as a formula. They need to get back to things like character’s personal dilemma, archenemies, motivations, and just stories that are written a little better. Your quote I hi-lighted in bold made me chuckle. The minute I saw it, it made me think of the writing for the Disney Star Wars trilogy. Are Easter eggs used in the print comics? If so, then the film-verse is rightfully keeping within the genre. But I daresay a lot of the so-called eggs are not eggs at all. Even so, if looking for Easter eggs is part of a viewers total enjoyment experience, what’s wrong with that. It’s claimed this is getting in the way of the drama, maybe so, but I’m not disappointed in the TV shows. Flawed they were, but not bad. Actually, overall, pretty good. Frankly, I find it fun that there’s a brief glimpse at what might be Peggy Carter being time arrested by the TVA. After all, she and Cap might be living “illegally” in two timelines on the MCU: one where he’s trapped in ice for decades; the other he’s living life as her husband. And folks like to come to these websites to share the fun, not be castigated for not expecting each film to be Citizen Kane. So, yeah, imagining alternative scenarios that might come to pass in a future story is part of the fun. Killjoys looking for sour grapes are not part of the fun. Easter eggs are great and fun, nobody is hating on them. What we're saying is that the shows should not be dependent on them in order to be good. The easter eggs are extra toppings. They should add a bit of extra flavor but the dish should be able to stand on its own even without them. Take for example Kang. If you didn't know who he was and if you didn't know what a multiverse meant for the future of the MCU, would you consider that final showdown of Loki a strong climax worthy of a finale? |
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Post by Surly on Jul 24, 2021 23:14:40 GMT
I do think that they’re starting to rely on Easter eggs too much as a formula. They need to get back to things like character’s personal dilemma, archenemies, motivations, and just stories that are written a little better. Your quote I hi-lighted in bold made me chuckle. The minute I saw it, it made me think of the writing for the Disney Star Wars trilogy. Are Easter eggs used in the print comics? If so, then the film-verse is rightfully keeping within the genre. But I daresay a lot of the so-called eggs are not eggs at all. Even so, if looking for Easter eggs is part of a viewers total enjoyment experience, what’s wrong with that. It’s claimed this is getting in the way of the drama, maybe so, but I’m not disappointed in the TV shows. Flawed they were, but not bad. Actually, overall, pretty good. Frankly, I find it fun that there’s a brief glimpse at what might be Peggy Carter being time arrested by the TVA. After all, she and Cap might be living “illegally” in two timelines on the MCU: one where he’s trapped in ice for decades; the other he’s living life as her husband. And folks like to come to these websites to share the fun, not be castigated for not expecting each film to be Citizen Kane. So, yeah, imagining alternative scenarios that might come to pass in a future story is part of the fun. Killjoys looking for sour grapes are not part of the fun. Of course Easter eggs are fun. I don’t recall saying that they should stop using Easter eggs or that including Easter eggs ruins the entertainment. I’m just saying they should be careful not to solely rely on them for the entertainment thrill in the story. Don’t put all of their eggs in one basket. Heck, even the comic books used some strategy about when to use Easter eggs! It wasn’t nonstop Easter eggs every issue. That’s why some comic book issues are worth much more than others. I’m fine with using Easter eggs. Just keep it balanced with the other entertainment elements. Which shouldn’t be that hard to do. |
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Jul 24, 2021 23:15:40 GMT
Are Easter eggs used in the print comics? If so, then the film-verse is rightfully keeping within the genre. But I daresay a lot of the so-called eggs are not eggs at all. Even so, if looking for Easter eggs is part of a viewers total enjoyment experience, what’s wrong with that. It’s claimed this is getting in the way of the drama, maybe so, but I’m not disappointed in the TV shows. Flawed they were, but not bad. Actually, overall, pretty good. Frankly, I find it fun that there’s a brief glimpse at what might be Peggy Carter being time arrested by the TVA. After all, she and Cap might be living “illegally” in two timelines on the MCU: one where he’s trapped in ice for decades; the other he’s living life as her husband. And folks like to come to these websites to share the fun, not be castigated for not expecting each film to be Citizen Kane. So, yeah, imagining alternative scenarios that might come to pass in a future story is part of the fun. Killjoys looking for sour grapes are not part of the fun. Easter eggs are great and fun, nobody is hating on them. What we're saying is that the shows should not be dependent on them in order to be good. The easter eggs are extra toppings. They should add a bit of extra flavor but the dish should be able to stand on its own even without them. Take for example Kang. If you didn't know who he was and if you didn't know what a multiverse meant for the future of the MCU, would you consider that final showdown of Loki a strong climax worthy of a finale? I knew who Kang is and was still let down by the finale. And that I did know, probably factored into my disappointment. You’re right that fans can over-hash the plots, Easter eggs, and end credit scenes. I’m still in a tizzy over Adam Warlock’s supposed resurrection hinted at the movies. Where the hell is he? I do agree these filmmakers shouldn’t expect the general audience to know anything about Marvel verses beyond the previous films. By Endgame, any moviegoer should know who Tony Stark is. If that is the goer’s first MCU movie and they don’t get him, then tough. But not if the character has never been in the movies, even if they’re big in the comics. Thinking back to the episode, Major’s character is explained in detail and what his presence means going forward for those not familiar with him. And his tedious exposition is not well done. That should have been action packed. But then, I know the character. And they shoulda used their Marvel magic to age up the oldest living being in the universe at least. What they did to Chris Evans in EG looks very realistic, but it might be an expensive process not within Loki’s budget. Anyways, I’m going to assume the long shutdown, then Covid restrictions hamper the production, so…. Great cliffhanger ending that got overshadowed by He Who Remains long-windedness. As for the other two, WandaVision is my biggest disappointment. It picks up steam about half way through. Falcon is better and goes to how people are coping after the chaos of alien invasion, then the snap/blip. This is where the series could go more gently since we ourselves are coping with existential chaos, fear of science, and the potential annihilation of our species.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jul 25, 2021 7:11:46 GMT
I agree and disagree.
I haven’t seen Black Widow, but I really liked Loki. I thought it was really fun and the time variation idea was really cool. I also thought it was a well-paced story leading to a big moment at the end - which is something a lot of MCU projects are missing. They all just kinda seem to end without any real relevance to the past or present.
Loki was also poorly written in his own show. The cameos and Easter eggs were also excessive. At the end of the show, all that it really did was setup the female Loki to be a new big player and Kang as the new big baddie for other projects.
This is also an issue plaguing Star Wars. The Bad Batch has been reduced to cool cameos that attach to other past projects or setup new ones. I loved Mandalorian S2, but a lot of that was there too. The immediate impact and focus of the actual story within the one show is there, but it feels like an after thought to making fans enjoy a small cameo or Easter egg.
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