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Post by Jep Gambardella on Jul 28, 2021 15:45:12 GMT
(With apologies to our Australian posters to whom the words “root” and “Laurel Hubbard” in the same sentence might be the stuff of nightmares)
This is the transwoman weightlifter from New Zealand who is taking part in the Tokyo Olympics.
On one hand I would hate to see her win a medal, as it would be fundamentally unfair to her female competitors. But if she DOES win at age 43 against competitors that apparently are all much younger, it would make it even more blatantly obvious that transwomen DO have an advantage over females – which hopefully would help push back against the tide of acceptance of transwomen in women’s sports.
On the other hand I think the fairest possible result would be for her to finish far from the podium – but if that happens, it will only give ammunition to the trans rights crowd who will be able to hold it as “proof” that transwomen don’t actually have an inherent advantage. They will conveniently ignore the fact that she took away an Olympic spot from a real woman, and that if she were a 43-year old female it’s very likely she wouldn’t have qualified in the first place.
Quite the dilemma!
Her weight category will be played next Monday (August 2nd).
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Jul 28, 2021 15:54:51 GMT
First of all this "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a he. I don't believe in this trans bullshit.
This is absolutely pathetic. No man in drag should be allowed to compete as a woman. This is woke nonsense at it's worst.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jul 28, 2021 17:41:46 GMT
First of all this "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a he. I don't believe in this trans bullshit. This is absolutely pathetic. No man in drag should be allowed to compete as a woman. This is woke nonsense at it's worst. This argument is stupid. What you “believe” is irrelevant. Facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs. The existence of ‘Trans’ people is not a matter of belief. They exist and it’s a fact. And for all intents and purposes, He is now a she. And that’s inclusive of your belief. It’s a fact. Likewise, your assertion that she is a “man in drag” and this is “woke nonsense” has nothing to do with whether or not she should be able to compete as a woman. There is one argument, and one argument only. Does she, as a trans person, have a distinct competitive advantage because of her status as a trans person. The fact is that it has been deemed by authorities running the sport that she does not. Personally, I think that anatomically it’s impossible to change bone and muscle structures from that of a man into that of a woman. But, I’m not an expert and my ‘belief’ is based on little more than general life experience. However, I’m not alone in my belief there, nor am alone in my belief that trans athletes dominating women’s events could realistically see the end of women’s only competition. |
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jul 28, 2021 18:38:24 GMT
I'm pretty apathetic about it. Sports bodies don't care. Women's Rights groups don't care. If she dominates/ doesn't dominate she'll be held up as a hero by some and a joke by others and I don't particularly agree with either view.
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Jul 28, 2021 19:53:57 GMT
First of all this "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a he. I don't believe in this trans bullshit. This is absolutely pathetic. No man in drag should be allowed to compete as a woman. This is woke nonsense at it's worst. This argument is stupid. What you “believe” is irrelevant. Facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs. The existence of ‘Trans’ people is not a matter of belief. They exist and it’s a fact. And for all intents and purposes, He is now a she. And that’s inclusive of your belief. It’s a fact. Likewise, your assertion that she is a “man in drag” and this is “woke nonsense” has nothing to do with whether or not she should be able to compete as a woman. There is one argument, and one argument only. Does she, as a trans person, have a distinct competitive advantage because of her status as a trans person. The fact is that it has been deemed by authorities running the sport that she does not. Personally, I think that anatomically it’s impossible to change bone and muscle structures from that of a man into that of a woman. But, I’m not an expert and my ‘belief’ is based on little more than general life experience. However, I’m not alone in my belief there, nor am alone in my belief that trans athletes dominating women’s events could realistically see the end of women’s only competition. Blah blah blah nature only made two sexes. These trans people are mentally disturbed. This "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a guy. That's the only fact that I believe. There is no he turning into a she and vice-versa. Just a he and a she. I couldn't care any less about your SJW nonsense. Stay woke. |
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jul 28, 2021 20:15:52 GMT
If I was a baker I would bake cakes equally for any kind of LGBTQ occasion requested of me. But I can’t agree with male to female trans people competing in women’s sports. If Kawhi cuts off his dick would it be fair if they joined the WNBA? This isn’t discriminatory, this is common sense.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jul 28, 2021 20:32:52 GMT
If I was a baker I would bake cakes equally for any kind of LGBTQ occasion requested of me. But I can’t agree with male to female trans people competing in women’s sports. If Kawhi cuts off his dick would it be fair if they joined the WNBA? This isn’t discriminatory, this is common sense. 
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jul 28, 2021 20:45:50 GMT
If I was a baker I would bake cakes equally for any kind of LGBTQ occasion requested of me. But I can’t agree with male to female trans people competing in women’s sports. If Kawhi cuts off his dick would it be fair if they joined the WNBA? This isn’t discriminatory, this is common sense. I totally forgot that Kevin Pollak was in that movie.
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jul 28, 2021 21:18:39 GMT
If I was a baker I would bake cakes equally for any kind of LGBTQ occasion requested of me. But I can’t agree with male to female trans people competing in women’s sports. If Kawhi cuts off his dick would it be fair if they joined the WNBA? This isn’t discriminatory, this is common sense. But that's not the situation here and rarely is with transgender athletes. Hubbard has been taking treatments to reduce naturally produced testosterone for years. The concern I have, and Bob has and you probably have too, is that she has already gone through male puberty and had the subsequent muscle and bone growth in that period to give her an advantage over women that no hormone therapy can make up. |
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jul 28, 2021 21:26:24 GMT
If I was a baker I would bake cakes equally for any kind of LGBTQ occasion requested of me. But I can’t agree with male to female trans people competing in women’s sports. If Kawhi cuts off his dick would it be fair if they joined the WNBA? This isn’t discriminatory, this is common sense. But that's not the situation here and rarely is with transgender athletes. Hubbard has been taking treatments to reduce naturally produced testosterone for years. The concern I have, and Bob has and you probably have too, is that she has already gone through male puberty and had the subsequent muscle and bone growth in that period to give her an advantage over women that no hormone therapy can make up. I'm on the other side of the fence on this one, but I applaud you for discussing the issue like an adult, and not lowering yourself to transphobic nonsense which offers nothing to the conversation. Plus, you raise a completely fair and valid point. Well done!
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jul 28, 2021 21:52:24 GMT
I totally forgot that Kevin Pollak was in that movie. If only Kevin Pollock could forget. |
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Post by NJtoTX on Jul 28, 2021 21:54:26 GMT
Depends on how she does with the snatch.
I'm glad she can compete, but hope she doesn't medal.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jul 29, 2021 3:07:16 GMT
This argument is stupid. What you “believe” is irrelevant. Facts are facts, beliefs are beliefs. The existence of ‘Trans’ people is not a matter of belief. They exist and it’s a fact. And for all intents and purposes, He is now a she. And that’s inclusive of your belief. It’s a fact. Likewise, your assertion that she is a “man in drag” and this is “woke nonsense” has nothing to do with whether or not she should be able to compete as a woman. There is one argument, and one argument only. Does she, as a trans person, have a distinct competitive advantage because of her status as a trans person. The fact is that it has been deemed by authorities running the sport that she does not. Personally, I think that anatomically it’s impossible to change bone and muscle structures from that of a man into that of a woman. But, I’m not an expert and my ‘belief’ is based on little more than general life experience. However, I’m not alone in my belief there, nor am alone in my belief that trans athletes dominating women’s events could realistically see the end of women’s only competition. Blah blah blah nature only made two sexes. These trans people are mentally disturbed. This "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a guy. That's the only fact that I believe. There is no he turning into a she and vice-versa. Just a he and a she. I couldn't care any less about your SJW nonsense. Stay woke. “Nature only made two sexes” is patently WRONG. Biologically there is a wide continuum between male and female individuals of a species. This is a proven scientific fact. It has ZERO to do with “SJW nonsense”. And accepting different people for how they are naturally is not a “woke” concept you fool. It’s basic human dignity.
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jul 29, 2021 7:09:34 GMT
And it's also forgetting intersexuality. My friend Greta Wells interviewed two extreme cases of intersexuality for a university film. One was a person who was in their late 30s and had never been through puberty and biologically can't feel sexual attraction.
The other person looked and thought they were a male. In their 40s and over the space of a few months they developed breasts. Their testicles and penis started to shrink and eventually went inside their body until they were outwardly a female. Previously happily married to a woman, this destroyed their sex life as their wife is not a lesbian.
I believe 1 in 200'000 are intersexual. Most will not have extreme manifestations like the two I mentioned, but at least 1650 in the US are not biologically Male or Female.
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Jul 29, 2021 9:46:23 GMT
Blah blah blah nature only made two sexes. These trans people are mentally disturbed. This "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a guy. That's the only fact that I believe. There is no he turning into a she and vice-versa. Just a he and a she. I couldn't care any less about your SJW nonsense. Stay woke. “Nature only made two sexes” is patently WRONG. Biologically there is a wide continuum between male and female individuals of a species. This is a proven scientific fact. It has ZERO to do with “SJW nonsense”. And accepting different people for how they are naturally is not a “woke” concept you fool. It’s basic human dignity. More pseudo-intellectual, self-righteous crap. A trans woman can't be considered as a biological woman. A trans man can't the be considered as a biological man. These are simple facts and you can't go against nature. And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap. You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass. Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it. |
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Post by weststigersbob on Jul 29, 2021 11:37:30 GMT
“Nature only made two sexes” is patently WRONG. Biologically there is a wide continuum between male and female individuals of a species. This is a proven scientific fact. It has ZERO to do with “SJW nonsense”. And accepting different people for how they are naturally is not a “woke” concept you fool. It’s basic human dignity. More pseudo-intellectual, self-righteous crap. A trans woman can't be considered as a biological woman. A trans man can't the be considered as a biological man. These are simple facts and you can't go against nature. And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap. You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass. Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it. Self-Righteous ? Please. There’s only one self righteous arsehat here, and it’s you. “A trans woman can’t be considered as a biological woman” - Says who ? You ? Care to back that up with some facts ? “These are simple facts” No they are not. They are your BELIEFS. Not facts. “And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap” Trans people exist. Are you saying they don’t ? Accepting the fact that Trans people exist is not “woke” nor “SJW crap” - it is accepting reality as fact. “You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass.” Why ? Trans people are people, who deserve at the minimum the rights afforded to all humans do they not ? “Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it.” There it is, the dumbest, most asinine argument of all time. I don’t like it, so I should not have to accept that something that actually exists, should exist. The most illogical argument ever uttered. Try this analogous argument. ”Just because some nonsense like the Moon exists, doesn’t mean I have to accept it.”
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Post by Mulder and Scully on Jul 29, 2021 11:57:40 GMT
More pseudo-intellectual, self-righteous crap. A trans woman can't be considered as a biological woman. A trans man can't the be considered as a biological man. These are simple facts and you can't go against nature. And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap. You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass. Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it. Self-Righteous ? Please. There’s only one self righteous arsehat here, and it’s you. “A trans woman can’t be considered as a biological woman” - Says who ? You ? Care to back that up with some facts ? “These are simple facts” No they are not. They are your BELIEFS. Not facts. “And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap” Trans people exist. Are you saying they don’t ? Accepting the fact that Trans people exist is not “woke” nor “SJW crap” - it is accepting reality as fact. “You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass.” Why ? Trans people are people, who deserve at the minimum the rights afforded to all humans do they not ? “Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it.” There it is, the dumbest, most asinine argument of all time. I don’t like it, so I should not have to accept that something that actually exists, should exist. The most illogical argument ever uttered. Try this analogous argument. ”Just because some nonsense like the Moon exists, doesn’t mean I have to accept it.” Lol you self-righteous woke SJW idiot, I have already made my point and nobody on the planet can change my views about trans people being unnatural and mentally disturbed. Now just fuck off. |
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Jul 29, 2021 14:22:54 GMT
Blah blah blah nature only made two sexes. These trans people are mentally disturbed. This "Laurel Hubbard" is always going to be a guy. That's the only fact that I believe. There is no he turning into a she and vice-versa. Just a he and a she. I couldn't care any less about your SJW nonsense. Stay woke. “Nature only made two sexes” is patently WRONG. Biologically there is a wide continuum between male and female individuals of a species. This is a proven scientific fact. It has ZERO to do with “SJW nonsense”. At the risk of sounding like I endorse Mulder and Scully’s views, which I don’t, I have to object to what you are saying here. When 49.99% of individuals are entirely male and 49.99% are entirely female, it’s a bit silly to say that biologically there is a “wide continuum” between male and female individuals. That’s like saying that since some babies are born with six fingers on each hand and some babies are born with four fingers, human beings have between four and six fingers. No, human beings have five fingers on each hand. The existence of a tiny number of genetic malformations doesn’t negate that fact.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jul 29, 2021 14:33:20 GMT
Self-Righteous ? Please. There’s only one self righteous arsehat here, and it’s you. “A trans woman can’t be considered as a biological woman” - Says who ? You ? Care to back that up with some facts ? “These are simple facts” No they are not. They are your BELIEFS. Not facts. “And accepting this trans idiocy is woke and SJW crap” Trans people exist. Are you saying they don’t ? Accepting the fact that Trans people exist is not “woke” nor “SJW crap” - it is accepting reality as fact. “You can shove your "basic human dignity" up your ass.” Why ? Trans people are people, who deserve at the minimum the rights afforded to all humans do they not ? “Just because some nonsense like trans people exists doesn't mean that I have to accept it.” There it is, the dumbest, most asinine argument of all time. I don’t like it, so I should not have to accept that something that actually exists, should exist. The most illogical argument ever uttered. Try this analogous argument. ”Just because some nonsense like the Moon exists, doesn’t mean I have to accept it.” Lol you self-righteous woke SJW idiot, I have already made my point and nobody on the planet can change my views about trans people being unnatural and mentally disturbed. Now just fuck off. Great point. I’m a bigoted arsehole who cannot accept trans people and is too stupid to understand the meaning of the words “beliefs”, “facts”, “natural” and “self-righteous”. So, I’ll stick to my informed opinions based on facts, and you can fuck off with your bigoted outdated views.
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Post by weststigersbob on Jul 29, 2021 15:28:14 GMT
“Nature only made two sexes” is patently WRONG. Biologically there is a wide continuum between male and female individuals of a species. This is a proven scientific fact. It has ZERO to do with “SJW nonsense”. At the risk of sounding like I endorse Mulder and Scully’s views, which I don’t, I have to object to what you are saying here. When 49.99% of individuals are entirely male and 49.99% are entirely female, it’s a bit silly to say that biologically there is a “wide continuum” between male and female individuals. That’s like saying that since some babies are born with six fingers on each hand and some babies are born with four fingers, human beings have between four and six fingers. No, human beings have five fingers on each hand. The existence of a tiny number of genetic malformations doesn’t negate that fact. There is a wide continuum, because biologically “sex” is determined by several factors (between 5 to 9 depending upon the source) but two of them common to all sources are the chromosomal makeup of an individual, and the hormonal makeup of an individual. One of these can be changed. The other cannot. While I agree that the overwhelming majority of people are either ‘completely’ male or female - the variety and complexity inbetween is undeniably vast - and that applies to both. Now within the bounds of ‘completely male’ and ‘completely female’ is not where most trans people are. To say otherwise is a simple denial of facts. Most have some form of hormonal imbalance in the simplest form. There is no athlete claiming to be ‘trans’ who is simply a “man in drag”. Why ? Because in order to qualify for women’s events, there has to be significant and sustained change toward the female of the species in several factors including non-medicated stable hormone levels and endocrine systems, to the point that medical experts agree that the person involved is literally a female of species. Sounds complex ? Well it is. And this is solely people who are “trans” - individuals who have had their entire “setup” measured and reviewed by several doctors, surgeons and specialists. Then there are people like Caster Semenya - truly intersex with the external organs of a female, but with male chromosomes and raised testosterone levels who until her adulthood had no idea that she wasn’t “completely female”.
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