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Post by drystyx on Aug 4, 2021 17:30:12 GMT
I agree, though I think skepticism is very important. Once other people start demanding that other people believe what they believe when it comes to stuff that can't be even shown to exist, that is when we start having problems. Beliefs don't just stay in your head in most cases. If people believe something is true they are going to act according to that belief."Believe and let believe" is a serious problem in many cases, because beliefs have an inevitable impact on how we act. The more irrational the belief the more harmful it will be. If you believe that the world is run by lizard people, you get stuff like Qanon. Sad, but true. Exactly how we know the atrocities supposedly done with religion as an excuse can't possibly be done by actual theists in most cases, but by mercantile materialists, since most religions actually condemn the very atrocities being committed. The wiping out of Albigensians, the persecutions of defenseless people with false accusations of witchcraft, the killing of "heretics" who just wanted to understand the words of God. We know that the authorities responsible had to be materialists intent on either material gain (materialists) or placation of sadistic desire (Satanists), because of that very "sad but true" statement: We have even seen posts on IMDB by the feeble minded, illustrating that statement, wanting to believe so badly that the concept of Christianity is the root of evil instead of the reality just expressed in that quote above. There was a poster named "Chx" who once quoted Hitler as her source, and actually said she trusted Hitler to tell the truth. I didn't make the rules. It is what it is. I'd join the politically correct and be an anti theist, too, if it was logical, but once someone does independent research, one finds that the atrocities of the past are done almost totally for mercantile and materialistic reasons. The rest of atrocities are done out of either sadistic Satanism or "life boat" scenarios. The "life boat" scenario is quite common for a reason for materialism to surface and create reasons to sacrifice and falsely accuse people one figures to be easy to throw out of the lifeboat. An earlier poster mentioned "literalist" theism, and that's why independent research is needed. Today's preachers are more prone to explain ancient Hebrew and Greek words with their full meaning than ever before. The King James bible is pretty much a babbling book without proper explanation of what is really meant. Seminary students are imparting knowledge that preachers didn't impart 50 years ago. The trend started in the Louisville are about 40 years ago. Better education from the most objective sources. "Objective sources" are hard to come by. Impossible to come by in the misinformation age, because they're drowned out by the ignorant masses who "believe what they want to believe". When one thinks rationally of "objective History", one goes against 'popular opinion' for that very reason, objectivity.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 4, 2021 17:40:32 GMT
Atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
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Post by goz on Aug 4, 2021 22:24:51 GMT
Atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Interesting in that the definition is not clear cut. It is my view that a disbelief is different to a lack of belief, ( which in my case makes me a self designated agnostic atheist) A theist is a believer and an atheist is a non-believer by conviction. A mere lack of belief is more agnostic ( since we also believe that there is probably no way of proving either) This sums up my position.
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Post by mystery on Aug 5, 2021 3:26:44 GMT
If there was proof that no Gods exist there would be no religions and everyone would be a Materialist. Consciousness and existence itself are mysterious to me. Nobody understands quantum physics or quantum mechanics. 'Proof of God'..it depends on what people require as proof. Consciousness and existence itself either make you feel a sense of awe or they don't. If they don't, no amount of debate will make you feel it and what others see as proof you will dismiss. 'Proof of God'..it depends on what people require as proof. Is a sunset good enough for you? Probably not. IMO it's like characters in a dream trying to prove to each other that the dreamer exists. Consciousness and existence are mysterious to me as well. I don't see how existence or non-existence of a god has anything to do with that. Sunsets (and not to mention scenic mountain vistas such as those at Yosemite) are completely awe-inspiring. It doesn't matter whether they were created by an intelligent being or not. For me a sign that when it comes to religion everybody has it wrong is the sheer diversity of deities. To me this is particulary damaging to literal interpretations of the familiar Judeo-Christian religions. I think non-literalist theists should try to distance themselves from the literalists to better maintain credibility for their position. All cultures have their own interpretations of Divinity. If you only look at the surface, they seem wildly divergent. But when you dig deeper, they are actually surprisingly alike. I'm a travel nerd, and no matter where I go on this planet, I can find common ground with people who are truly devout in their faith, from Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jainists, Shamans, Aboriginals, etc, etc. There is a strange sort of kinship that you can sense, an understanding that we're all climbing the same mountain, even if we're taking different paths. I think that's pretty cool, actually. One of my favorite films is Baraka, capturing a glimpse of how the Sacred is viewed and honored within different cultures. It's one of the things that sparked my passion for traveling, and I've even been to many of the places featured in the film. Diversity of beliefs and cultures enriches the world, and I truly appreciate that. I guess that's why I don't particularly appreciate evangelical atheists who seem to want to tear them down. IMO, the goal really should be tolerance, not merely trying to convert others to our point of view. Even if all religions were abolished from the face of the Earth, humanity would still find plenty of things to fight about. Tolerance is the key.
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Post by general313 on Aug 5, 2021 17:35:07 GMT
Consciousness and existence are mysterious to me as well. I don't see how existence or non-existence of a god has anything to do with that. Sunsets (and not to mention scenic mountain vistas such as those at Yosemite) are completely awe-inspiring. It doesn't matter whether they were created by an intelligent being or not. For me a sign that when it comes to religion everybody has it wrong is the sheer diversity of deities. To me this is particulary damaging to literal interpretations of the familiar Judeo-Christian religions. I think non-literalist theists should try to distance themselves from the literalists to better maintain credibility for their position. All cultures have their own interpretations of Divinity. If you only look at the surface, they seem wildly divergent. But when you dig deeper, they are actually surprisingly alike. I'm a travel nerd, and no matter where I go on this planet, I can find common ground with people who are truly devout in their faith, from Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Jainists, Shamans, Aboriginals, etc, etc. There is a strange sort of kinship that you can sense, an understanding that we're all climbing the same mountain, even if we're taking different paths. I think that's pretty cool, actually. One of my favorite films is Baraka, capturing a glimpse of how the Sacred is viewed and honored within different cultures. It's one of the things that sparked my passion for traveling, and I've even been to many of the places featured in the film. Diversity of beliefs and cultures enriches the world, and I truly appreciate that. I guess that's why I don't particularly appreciate evangelical atheists who seem to want to tear them down. IMO, the goal really should be tolerance, not merely trying to convert others to our point of view. Even if all religions were abolished from the face of the Earth, humanity would still find plenty of things to fight about. Tolerance is the key.This touches on my second paragraph. There might be lots in common between different religions but try explaining that to the folks on either side of the wall in Northern Ireland or Isreal/Palestinian territories.
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Post by amyghost on Aug 6, 2021 12:05:41 GMT
I've read both, as well as William James, and Elaine Pagels, the prolific and extremely interesting religious historian. Because I have no belief in literal gods and deities doesn't mean I can't have an interest in the subjects of spirituality, mysticism and comparative religions and the history behind them. I wonder if many 'spiritually minded' sorts have done much reading of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and other contemporary writers on the topic of atheism; not to mention the reams of material written over the centuries on the topic. I may be wrong about this, but in my own empirical experience I've found that the religiously oriented seem to be more reluctant to open their minds to the possibility of no god than the agnostic/atheistically minded appear to be about the possibility of a god, or at the very least an examination into the subject of god-belief. I've met virtually no believers who have any interest whatever in discussion of atheism except in the most purely dismissive manner. I'm a former atheist. I don't have any interest in reading about atheism, because my beliefs are based on my own personal experiences, and I have enough proof to obliterate any doubts I used to have. I have essentially zero interest in either atheism or Christianity, because I've been there and done that, and there isn't anything left to explore. I doubt if there's anyone who's such an authority on any subject that there's literally nothing left for them to explore in it, but your personal decisions as to what you choose to leave unexplored are of course yours. But this does point up what I've noticed--that where theism and atheism are concerned, it seems more to tilt towards the godly minded to be indifferent to what atheists have to say than the opposite, whatever their professed reasons for that indifference.
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Post by amyghost on Aug 6, 2021 12:11:38 GMT
I've read both, as well as William James, and Elaine Pagels, the prolific and extremely interesting religious historian. Because I have no belief in literal gods and deities doesn't mean I can't have an interest in the subjects of spirituality, mysticism and comparative religions and the history behind them. I wonder if many 'spiritually minded' sorts have done much reading of Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and other contemporary writers on the topic of atheism; not to mention the reams of material written over the centuries on the topic. I may be wrong about this, but in my own empirical experience I've found that the religiously oriented seem to be more reluctant to open their minds to the possibility of no god than the agnostic/atheistically minded appear to be about the possibility of a god, or at the very least an examination into the subject of god-belief. I've met virtually no believers who have any interest whatever in discussion of atheism except in the most purely dismissive manner. You'd actually label yourself a 'Materialist'? That's sad. I agree with Gore Vidal (and many others): This world is all we know for a certainty that we have. I don't find that sad, simply realistic. I'd rather focus my attention on bettering my corner of this material sphere than draining my energies yearning after an unproven--and indeed unprovable. If that philosophy (maybe too grandiose a word for it) denotes me as a 'Materialist', then I guess I'd have to 'fess up and say yes, I suppose I must be one. But I'm not saddened by it, just accepting of the facts before me as I'm permitted to know them.
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Post by mystery on Aug 6, 2021 15:06:12 GMT
I'm a former atheist. I don't have any interest in reading about atheism, because my beliefs are based on my own personal experiences, and I have enough proof to obliterate any doubts I used to have. I have essentially zero interest in either atheism or Christianity, because I've been there and done that, and there isn't anything left to explore. I doubt if there's anyone who's such an authority on any subject that there's literally nothing left for them to explore in it, but your personal decisions as to what you choose to leave unexplored are of course yours. But this does point up what I've noticed--that where theism and atheism are concerned, it seems more to tilt towards the godly minded to be indifferent to what atheists have to say than the opposite, whatever their professed reasons for that indifference. As I see it, atheism vs. theism is just the first step in a very long journey. I was an atheist from my late teens to early 20's, and I studied the hard sciences ad nauseam. But even then, I still had premonitions, and that confused me. I usually tried to dismiss them as coincidence and ignored them. But as the years went on, coincidence just didn't cut it anymore. I finally asked Divinity for a sign and got way more than I bargained for. After that, I started tentatively walking down the spiritual path, and only found more and more reasons to believe in something beyond what our primitive senses can perceive. At this point, I couldn't be an atheist even if I wanted to be. I actually stopped actively practicing my spirituality a few years ago, not from lack of faith, but because life was getting so weird that I wasn't sure I could handle it anymore. Too much woo. I find it kind of funny that atheists think that theism prevents people from living life to the fullest. For me, it's quite the opposite. I've taken a hell of a lot of risks in life, just because I know I'll get a heads up if I'm getting myself into danger. People are always amazed by my fearlessness, but you don't need to be very brave if you have an early warning system. I find that spirituality gives life beauty and wonder and meaning, and it helps me appreciate the little things and to take nothing for granted. I also have a pretty epic ghost story that blew my mind into a million pieces. I have so many of my own personal experiences that you could probably argue that I have no faith at all. With respect, I really don't care what atheists think, because I can't just forget decades worth of my own lived experiences that directly contradicts them. Plus, most atheists only seem to want to talk about Christianity, so that doesn't interest me, either. It's not surprising that atheists are more interested in theism than vice versa, because they are still at that first step. Theists have already made that choice, and are walking down a different path. Most of them have no reason to look back.
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Post by Sarge on Aug 7, 2021 1:56:07 GMT
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gw
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Post by gw on Aug 7, 2021 4:15:11 GMT
I doubt if there's anyone who's such an authority on any subject that there's literally nothing left for them to explore in it, but your personal decisions as to what you choose to leave unexplored are of course yours. But this does point up what I've noticed--that where theism and atheism are concerned, it seems more to tilt towards the godly minded to be indifferent to what atheists have to say than the opposite, whatever their professed reasons for that indifference. As I see it, atheism vs. theism is just the first step in a very long journey. I was an atheist from my late teens to early 20's, and I studied the hard sciences ad nauseam. But even then, I still had premonitions, and that confused me. I usually tried to dismiss them as coincidence and ignored them. But as the years went on, coincidence just didn't cut it anymore. I finally asked Divinity for a sign and got way more than I bargained for. After that, I started tentatively walking down the spiritual path, and only found more and more reasons to believe in something beyond what our primitive senses can perceive. At this point, I couldn't be an atheist even if I wanted to be. I actually stopped actively practicing my spirituality a few years ago, not from lack of faith, but because life was getting so weird that I wasn't sure I could handle it anymore. Too much woo. I find it kind of funny that atheists think that theism prevents people from living life to the fullest. For me, it's quite the opposite. I've taken a hell of a lot of risks in life, just because I know I'll get a heads up if I'm getting myself into danger. People are always amazed by my fearlessness, but you don't need to be very brave if you have an early warning system. I find that spirituality gives life beauty and wonder and meaning, and it helps me appreciate the little things and to take nothing for granted. I also have a pretty epic ghost story that blew my mind into a million pieces. I have so many of my own personal experiences that you could probably argue that I have no faith at all. With respect, I really don't care what atheists think, because I can't just forget decades worth of my own lived experiences that directly contradicts them. Plus, most atheists only seem to want to talk about Christianity, so that doesn't interest me, either. It's not surprising that atheists are more interested in theism than vice versa, because they are still at that first step. Theists have already made that choice, and are walking down a different path. Most of them have no reason to look back. I haven't had premonitions but I have had precognition. I've seen events a few years before they occur. It doesn't help me out much because if I try to figure out what will happen I just get false imagery. And I've also had possible Mandela effects. I'm not sure what the greatest being is that exists or if there even is one. I'm in a sort of nebulous area where I'm skeptical of the predominant religious claims and also have beliefs that go against the grain of the predominant materialist sort of atheism, at least the beliefs that most of those as they exist today.
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Post by mystery on Aug 7, 2021 13:52:54 GMT
As I see it, atheism vs. theism is just the first step in a very long journey. I was an atheist from my late teens to early 20's, and I studied the hard sciences ad nauseam. But even then, I still had premonitions, and that confused me. I usually tried to dismiss them as coincidence and ignored them. But as the years went on, coincidence just didn't cut it anymore. I finally asked Divinity for a sign and got way more than I bargained for. After that, I started tentatively walking down the spiritual path, and only found more and more reasons to believe in something beyond what our primitive senses can perceive. At this point, I couldn't be an atheist even if I wanted to be. I actually stopped actively practicing my spirituality a few years ago, not from lack of faith, but because life was getting so weird that I wasn't sure I could handle it anymore. Too much woo. I find it kind of funny that atheists think that theism prevents people from living life to the fullest. For me, it's quite the opposite. I've taken a hell of a lot of risks in life, just because I know I'll get a heads up if I'm getting myself into danger. People are always amazed by my fearlessness, but you don't need to be very brave if you have an early warning system. I find that spirituality gives life beauty and wonder and meaning, and it helps me appreciate the little things and to take nothing for granted. I also have a pretty epic ghost story that blew my mind into a million pieces. I have so many of my own personal experiences that you could probably argue that I have no faith at all. With respect, I really don't care what atheists think, because I can't just forget decades worth of my own lived experiences that directly contradicts them. Plus, most atheists only seem to want to talk about Christianity, so that doesn't interest me, either. It's not surprising that atheists are more interested in theism than vice versa, because they are still at that first step. Theists have already made that choice, and are walking down a different path. Most of them have no reason to look back. I certainly don't think that. My beef is with the political theists who use their religion to bully other people with. There is no reason I should have to swear a civic oath to God, but until recently, that was the case for Americans. And I'm sure you know plenty of Christians who do not live the life to the fullest because they think if they do, they will become wanton sinners. I mostly know people who don't live life to the fullest because they make incredibly bad choices and ruin their futures. Or, they don't live life to the fullest because they choose to follow the crowd rather than thinking for themselves, so they end up with a boring life they hate. The people who exhibit self-control probably do better in the long run than the ones you have no impulse control. I don't know too many Christians like that, though. You seriously think Christians are as interested in atheism as vice versa? Just look at this forum. It's probably 90% atheists. I suspect most Christians don't really question their faith very deeply. Most have never even read the Bible. But, I do agree with you about not forcing your beliefs on others. I see the Christian influences on currency and other things merely as relics from a time when the country was far more religious than it is now. Christianity is waning, and it's certainly not the dominant force it once was.
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Post by mystery on Aug 7, 2021 14:03:01 GMT
As I see it, atheism vs. theism is just the first step in a very long journey. I was an atheist from my late teens to early 20's, and I studied the hard sciences ad nauseam. But even then, I still had premonitions, and that confused me. I usually tried to dismiss them as coincidence and ignored them. But as the years went on, coincidence just didn't cut it anymore. I finally asked Divinity for a sign and got way more than I bargained for. After that, I started tentatively walking down the spiritual path, and only found more and more reasons to believe in something beyond what our primitive senses can perceive. At this point, I couldn't be an atheist even if I wanted to be. I actually stopped actively practicing my spirituality a few years ago, not from lack of faith, but because life was getting so weird that I wasn't sure I could handle it anymore. Too much woo. I find it kind of funny that atheists think that theism prevents people from living life to the fullest. For me, it's quite the opposite. I've taken a hell of a lot of risks in life, just because I know I'll get a heads up if I'm getting myself into danger. People are always amazed by my fearlessness, but you don't need to be very brave if you have an early warning system. I find that spirituality gives life beauty and wonder and meaning, and it helps me appreciate the little things and to take nothing for granted. I also have a pretty epic ghost story that blew my mind into a million pieces. I have so many of my own personal experiences that you could probably argue that I have no faith at all. With respect, I really don't care what atheists think, because I can't just forget decades worth of my own lived experiences that directly contradicts them. Plus, most atheists only seem to want to talk about Christianity, so that doesn't interest me, either. It's not surprising that atheists are more interested in theism than vice versa, because they are still at that first step. Theists have already made that choice, and are walking down a different path. Most of them have no reason to look back. I haven't had premonitions but I have had precognition. I've seen events a few years before they occur. It doesn't help me out much because if I try to figure out what will happen I just get false imagery. And I've also had possible Mandela effects. I'm not sure what the greatest being is that exists or if there even is one. I'm in a sort of nebulous area where I'm skeptical of the predominant religious claims and also have beliefs that go against the grain of the predominant materialist sort of atheism, at least the beliefs that most of those as they exist today. How do you define premonition vs. precognition? For me, it happens in various ways, sometimes as a vision, sometimes a sudden sense of knowing, sometimes just repeated nagging thoughts about someone who is about to die, etc. My range is usually very short, typically from just a few minutes to a few days, maybe a week. I usually think that's a good thing, because long term premonitions can be pretty useless if you have no time frame. I definitely have a love/hate relationship with them. They can make me feel really angry and guilty and frustrated, but it's also nice not to be caught off guard. It's something I've struggled with a lot. I can relate about not fitting neatly into any of the boxes. I think it's best to stay true to ourselves, rather than trying to conform, simply to fit in. It's always more interesting and fulfilling to forge our own paths in life. Being a follower is boring, anyway.
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Post by general313 on Aug 7, 2021 17:24:05 GMT
This touches on my second paragraph. There might be lots in common between different religions but try explaining that to the folks on either side of the wall in Northern Ireland or Isreal/Palestinian territories. For some, religion is a form of political ideology which explains why two churches that virtually hold the same beliefs can murder each other over heresy. Unfortunately, that "some" would seem to include those in power. Their actions are at complete odds with the message of their religion. We're most familiar with "our" old religion but I'm sure it's the same with all the others.
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Post by Stammerhead on Aug 7, 2021 18:29:54 GMT
It depend on what mood I'm in at the time.
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gw
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Post by gw on Aug 7, 2021 22:59:21 GMT
I haven't had premonitions but I have had precognition. I've seen events a few years before they occur. It doesn't help me out much because if I try to figure out what will happen I just get false imagery. And I've also had possible Mandela effects. I'm not sure what the greatest being is that exists or if there even is one. I'm in a sort of nebulous area where I'm skeptical of the predominant religious claims and also have beliefs that go against the grain of the predominant materialist sort of atheism, at least the beliefs that most of those as they exist today. How do you define premonition vs. precognition? For me, it happens in various ways, sometimes as a vision, sometimes a sudden sense of knowing, sometimes just repeated nagging thoughts about someone who is about to die, etc. My range is usually very short, typically from just a few minutes to a few days, maybe a week. I usually think that's a good thing, because long term premonitions can be pretty useless if you have no time frame. I definitely have a love/hate relationship with them. They can make me feel really angry and guilty and frustrated, but it's also nice not to be caught off guard. It's something I've struggled with a lot. I can relate about not fitting neatly into any of the boxes. I think it's best to stay true to ourselves, rather than trying to conform, simply to fit in. It's always more interesting and fulfilling to forge our own paths in life. Being a follower is boring, anyway. Precognition is specifically visualizations of future experience which happen while you sleep. As far as I know, everything that happens while you're awake falls under the premonition category. I have a time frame but I'm not sure if it's four and a half years or five years. It's so long ahead that it's hard to tell. I just want for life to make sense, myself.
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Post by mystery on Aug 8, 2021 0:50:45 GMT
I mostly know people who don't live life to the fullest because they make incredibly bad choices and ruin their futures. Or, they don't live life to the fullest because they choose to follow the crowd rather than thinking for themselves, so they end up with a boring life they hate. The people who exhibit self-control probably do better in the long run than the ones you have no impulse control. I don't know too many Christians like that, though. You seriously think Christians are as interested in atheism as vice versa? Just look at this forum. It's probably 90% atheists. I suspect most Christians don't really question their faith very deeply. Most have never even read the Bible. But, I do agree with you about not forcing your beliefs on others. I see the Christian influences on currency and other things merely as relics from a time when the country was far more religious than it is now. Christianity is waning, and it's certainly not the dominant force it once was. Not Christians, but a subset of Christians known as Evangelicals, which have a subset known as Fundamentalist Evangelicals. These generally are the more politically right wing, mostly Republicans who are attempting to enact Christian dogma (disguised as natural law) upon our civil laws in the name protecting of the (Christian) Family: man as head of family to be obeyed, etc. This is what Focus on the Family and many similar organizations are about. Therefore, they have a vested interest in proving the celebrity atheists wrong enough, at least to the satisfaction of their church members, to then prove their point that God, or the “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence, is a real being and that being is God…atheists cannot prove that He doesn’t exists; America was at its greatest when people were more go-to-church-every-Sunday Christian; therefore America should be under His Authority with the most moral among us (that is Christian by their definition) to be our political leaders (and that would be them) in charge. That’s long winded, but some of the biggest bestsellers among this particular subset of Christians are the refutations of atheist arguments like Dawkins, Dennett, etc. Fundamentalist preacher Ken Hamm has built a business and amusement park in Kentucky to prove Man walked with the dinosaurs. So, to answer the question, these Christians are interested in atheism in order to prove it as a false consciousness of denialism about the indubitableness of God. In turn, atheists spend a lot of time answering leading questions, addressing circular arguments, and pointing out how burden of proof works. It’s not really about theology. I'm sorry, but I don't buy into the Evangelical boogeyman theory, because I know Evangelicals. Most of my family is Evangelical, and my parents even know James Dobson personally. Yes, they think homosexuality is a sin, but they have no hostility toward gay people, and they don't even seem to want gay marriage to be overturned. And yes, they don't support abortion, and they generally want it to be up to the states to regulate abortion. Beyond that, their religion really isn't even a factor. They do believe that the man should be the head of the household, essentially meaning he's the tie breaker in disagreements. But there are also plenty of Evangelical husbands who are completely dominated by their wives. They are a lot more human than you give them credit for. Plus, their numbers are small and diminishing, so I just don't buy into the hysteria. Too many people watch dystopian TV shows, and seem to think it's a documentary rather than a work of fiction.
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Post by mystery on Aug 8, 2021 0:52:56 GMT
How do you define premonition vs. precognition? For me, it happens in various ways, sometimes as a vision, sometimes a sudden sense of knowing, sometimes just repeated nagging thoughts about someone who is about to die, etc. My range is usually very short, typically from just a few minutes to a few days, maybe a week. I usually think that's a good thing, because long term premonitions can be pretty useless if you have no time frame. I definitely have a love/hate relationship with them. They can make me feel really angry and guilty and frustrated, but it's also nice not to be caught off guard. It's something I've struggled with a lot. I can relate about not fitting neatly into any of the boxes. I think it's best to stay true to ourselves, rather than trying to conform, simply to fit in. It's always more interesting and fulfilling to forge our own paths in life. Being a follower is boring, anyway. Precognition is specifically visualizations of future experience which happen while you sleep. As far as I know, everything that happens while you're awake falls under the premonition category. I have a time frame but I'm not sure if it's four and a half years or five years. It's so long ahead that it's hard to tell. I just want for life to make sense, myself. Thanks for clarifying. That's different than how I would define them, but it doesn't matter. I rarely get precognitive dreams, and I usually don't remember my dreams at all. 5 years is a long time! It's probably good that mine aren't that long term, because I would almost certainly lose track of them long before they came to pass. I'm just not that organized.
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Post by mystery on Aug 8, 2021 1:08:12 GMT
I'm sorry, but I don't buy into the Evangelical boogeyman theory, because I know Evangelicals. Most of my family is Evangelical, and my parents even know James Dobson personally. Yes, they think homosexuality is a sin, but they have no hostility toward gay people, and they don't even seem to want gay marriage to be overturned. And yes, they don't support abortion, and they generally want it to be up to the states to regulate abortion. Beyond that, their religion really isn't even a factor. They do believe that the man should be the head of the household, essentially meaning he's the tie breaker in disagreements. But there are also plenty of Evangelical husbands who are completely dominated by their wives. They are a lot more human than you give them credit for. Plus, their numbers are small and diminishing, so I just don't buy into the hysteria. Too many people watch dystopian TV shows, and seem to think it's a documentary rather than a work of fiction. Mystery, these Evangelicals are on the record. I’m not making them up. Nor do I think all Evangelicals are as such. I go to great pains to differentiate, which you totally ignored. I’ve nothing more to say here. You specifically said Focus on the Family, which my parents support, so I presumed they were the type of people you were referring to. If not, then I guess I've never met a true Evangelical Fundamentalist, and there obviously must not be very many of them. Whatever.
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Post by mystery on Aug 8, 2021 1:50:46 GMT
You specifically said Focus on the Family, which my parents support, so I presumed they were the type of people you were referring to. If not, then I guess I've never met a true Evangelical Fundamentalist, and there obviously must not be very many of them. Whatever. One of their goals is to protect the traditional, Christian family against all outside threats and their rights as paramount over all other forms of social behavior by using legislation that strips civil rights from gays and other non-traditional families. For them the only moral values that matter, and frankly should be allowed to exist on the books, are their moral values and these values should be enforced. Just read their literature. And by the way, Dobson himself got pushed from the organization he founded. Why? After Dobson left Focus on the Family, Ken Hutcherson — the late pastor of the Antioch Bible megachurch and a personal friend of Dobson’s — wrote that Dobson had, in fact, been pushed out of the organization. “I think that Focus does have a new focus; an image change designed to make them accepted and well-liked rather than standing for righteousness in an unrighteous society,” he wrote.
While ousting Dobson may have been a move toward softening its image, Focus on the Family still promotes creationism, abstinence-only sex education, and adoption exclusively to heterosexual couples. The organization lobbies against reproductive and LGBTQ rights and has been criticized for misrepresenting research in order to promote its “values.” www.distractify.com/p/why-did-james-dobson-leave-focus-on-the-family Huh, I didn't even know that Dobson was gone. That's interesting. I don't know very much about the specifics of Focus on the Family, because I haven't attended church in this millennium, so I'm not really part of that world. My view of Evangelicals is based entirely on the people I actually know, and I don't anyone who matches the popular stereotypes. I've spent most of my life trying to find common humanity with people who are wildly different than me. I really wish more people would try to do the same.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Aug 20, 2021 22:47:13 GMT
there is a god.
I am well aware of the myriad of philosophical definitions, treatises and claims that atheism is the belief that there is no god...that it is a positive claim rather than simply a lack of belief.
A few things.
One, it would seem that there must be a word for not believing that something is true while not being certain that it is not true. And I don't think agnostic/agnosticism fits.
Someone else has already mentioned Flew's handy distinction between 'soft' and'hard' atheism where only in the latter sub division does one go on to make a firm assertion that God does not exist, which can only be a belief. The point being that a lack of belief in a deliberate supernatural is not contingent on believing one does not exist. In my own case for instance it remains a strong suspicion only.
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